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National Service?

by C1ay / March 17, 2004 9:46 AM PST

In another thread a few days ago the topic of discussion was the draft. In many countries there is a requirement that all males fulfill a mandatory term of service for their country. Should any type of similiar plan be considered in the US? What about 4 years of college tuition for everyone that puts in 2 years of service? What about something like a mandatory summer of community service for all high school students as a graduation requirement? Opinions?

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Why just males?
by Bill Osler / March 17, 2004 10:53 AM PST
In reply to: National Service?

I think the idea has some merit, but I fail to see why it should apply to just the male half of the population.

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Re:Why just males?
by C1ay / March 17, 2004 11:10 AM PST
In reply to: Why just males?

I wasn't suggesting a plan for just males, only pointing out that this is what other countries do.

P.S.

What do you think, as a doctor, of a program that would require all competent high school students to certify in CPR as a part of the high school curriculum? It would seem that after several generations the knowledge in public could save many lives. Having done so myself it does not seem to be a skill that is above the high school seniors potential.

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NT - A better idea is to teach them how to budget and write a check
by Diana Forum moderator / March 17, 2004 12:18 PM PST
In reply to: Re:Why just males?

.

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Re: A better idea is to teach them how to budget and write a check

Hi, Diana.

I agree, but that would distract them from the important things, like drilling to pass Bush's tests. And sports, of course...

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Re:Re: A better idea is to teach them how to budget and write a check
by C1ay / March 17, 2004 12:24 PM PST

Are you opposed to the 8 hour course in CPR or the summer of service?

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Re:NT - A better idea is to teach them how to budget and write a check
by C1ay / March 17, 2004 12:24 PM PST

Are you opposed to the 8 hour course in CPR or the summer of service?

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A better idea is to teach them how to budget and write a che
by Diana Forum moderator / August 13, 2004 11:11 PM PDT

I'm not saying that these skills shouldn't be taught, I'm just saying that people need to balance a checkbook monthly while CPR might never be required.

I like the idea of a summer of service to graduate. Perhaps some of these skills (like CPR and first aid) can be taught during these times. I remember we learned first aid during gym. Of course we had gym everyday not just once a week like my kids.

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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(NT) That should be a required course for anyone wanting to run for Congress too!
by Josh K / March 17, 2004 11:31 PM PST

.

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CPR requirement is probably not reasonable ...
by Bill Osler / March 18, 2004 9:04 AM PST
In reply to: Re:Why just males?

CPR itself is not terribly difficult to master, but before endorsing a requirement I think we need to consider it's utility.

There is precious little data regarding the actual efficacy of CPR. It's one of those politically popular things that probably does save a few lives, but not nearly as many as some would have you believe. Evaluated from a cost-benefit perspective I'm not sure requiring CPR mastery to graduate high school would make sense.

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CPR learned at school helped teen rescue mom
by C1ay / August 13, 2004 10:28 PM PDT
In reply to: Re:Why just males?
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Cost
by C1ay / March 17, 2004 11:48 AM PST
In reply to: National Service?

Of course the cost of such plans must be considered as well.

According to the census the high school program would entail putting 4 million high seniors to work for the summer. Should the community service requirement require them to work for free as part of their curriculum? Is that asking to much?

As for 18 to 24 year olds putting in 2 years of service in exchange for 4 years of paid tuition our ranks could swell to 8,000,000. There are currently only 1.4 million serving in all of the branches of service combined. Can the U.S. afford 8,000,000 4 year scholarships a year? How many can it afford?

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Re:Cost
by Josh K / March 17, 2004 11:35 PM PST
In reply to: Cost

How it would be paid for is a good question. Cost aside, I think offering college scholarships (or even full tuition) to anyone fulfilling two years' military service would be a nice incentive for people who might not have considered the military otherwise. It also might improve the overall quality of the armed forces since we'd have more college-bound kids joining than we have now. I don't see why it would have to be tied to mandatory service though.

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Re:Re:Cost
by Roger NC / March 18, 2004 12:25 AM PST
In reply to: Re:Cost

College for service, military or even perhaps other public good service corps, is a good topic for discussion.

But in regards to the cost, unfortunately I don't think 2 years of service would balence it anyway you consider it. The military already has a problem with short term service because of more training and experience with modern equipment as well as the basic physical and mental preparation time. By the time they get one termers fairly trained and drilled, they're already anticipating their release.

We might have to consider it a year for year proposition. College degrees now take as many more than 4 years as those that do it in 4 or less, from what I understand.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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Here's the quote that generated the post
by C1ay / March 18, 2004 6:18 AM PST
In reply to: National Service?

As President, John Kerry will ensure that every high school student in America performs community service as a requirement for graduation.

and

Thirteen to seventeen year olds are too old for child care and too young for many summer jobs. John Kerry believes we should tap their energy and idealism through a summer of service learning. Supervised by AmeriCorps members, these young people could help out in nursing homes, clean up local areas, or teach seniors computer skills. In turn, they would receive a $500 grant to apply to their college or vocational educations down the road.

and

As President, John Kerry will call on young people to help strengthen America's security and address unmet community needs. In return, he believes we should offer young Americans and their families the opportunity for a college education. A Kerry Administration will offer Americans the chance to earn the equivalent of their state's four-year public college tuition in exchange for two years of service. If service members decide not to go to college, their award can be used for job training or to help start a business.

Visit JohnKerry.com for more giveaway programs. And they thought Bill Clinton signed the biggest tax increase in history. Just wait until you see all the prizes Johnny boy is offering for the White House.

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Underhanded way to introduce this topic. (NT)
by R Bibb / March 18, 2004 8:44 AM PST

.

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So
by C1ay / March 18, 2004 10:25 AM PST

What's wrong with seeing how people feel about the issues before telling them how the candidate feels about the issues. Just think of it as a blind study.

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Re: National Service?
by MKay / August 13, 2004 10:50 PM PDT
In reply to: National Service?

With terror and aggretion the way it is today,I think it's a good idea, as long as it's applied to everybody equally.

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Re: National Service?
by Angeline Booher / August 14, 2004 12:59 AM PDT
In reply to: National Service?

This question apparently arises at intervals.

Believe it or not, but in my high school in 1950 we had a debate (under Roberts Rules of Order) re: "Mandatory Universal Military Service". I took the affirmative.


Now my thinking is a little different.

In years past there were some who thought that a person joined a service because they couldn't do anything else, and that boys were encouraged to join to help them grow up. In WWII men were moved by patriotism to serve, and the rest were drafted. Women took part in auxiliaries, and worked in war plants. The later "police action" and war continued the active draft.

When the draft ended, and the services became voluntary, the requirements also rose.

That is what I now prefer.

Opportunities like the Peace Corps and AmericaCorps that required a set commitment to serve attracted people.

I now wonder if mandatory military service would affect the professionalism of today's units.

However, there are other sectors in which people could serve other than military. IMO, there are not enough engaged in secular or religious groups, like churches, to fill the needs , as in the proposed "Faith Based" groups action.

It would be difficult to mandate people putting their private lives on hold for a set period of time. Also finding a way to pay for it, because, IMO, they would have to be paid at least a stipend.

I recall the successes of the WPA and CCC. So, government programs can work.

I suspect that the best time to start with mandates would be with high school. Money for college or trade schools would be a good incentive, but I support the same length of service as required by the military.


Angeline
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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Re: National Service?
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / August 14, 2004 3:41 AM PDT
In reply to: National Service?

Hi, Clay.

>>In many countries there is a requirement that all males fulfill a mandatory term of service for their country.<<
Interestingly, the number of such countries is dropping. For example, China no longer has a draft, and their armed forces (and defense budget as %age of GDP) are consistently shrinking. Russia is trying to abolish conscription, but the target date is in question because of the higher cost of an all-volunteer army.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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