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General discussion

My idea of a free Republic

Mar 24, 2010 12:55AM PDT

I've become firmly convinced that the only way for the PEOPLE to be heard is to have a new amendment to the Constitution that says that ALL bills have to be put on a ballot for the PEOPLE to vote on before it can become law, whether it's at the Fed, State, or Local level. Lawmakers are afraid to allow this because voter turnout is normally under 50%, and even THAT low a number would prevent so many junk laws from being passed, but with so many people already believing that their vote won't matter anyhow because House and Senate reps do what they want instead of what WE want, voter attitude is 'why bother'. I believe that voter turnout would be in the high 70% or more if they finally knew that THEIR voices would be heard instead of agenda seeking jerks in those ELECTED seats.

TONI H
from a small country community of under 7000 in VA

Discussion is locked

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Everyone votes on everything?
Mar 24, 2010 1:03AM PDT

WOW!

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Why not?
Mar 24, 2010 1:13AM PDT

Since every law passed affects every single citizen, we should all be able to decide on whether we want it or not.

TONI H

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Someone said....
Mar 24, 2010 1:29AM PDT

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy.

We may be there now.

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Also
Mar 24, 2010 11:23AM PDT

The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public?s money.

? Alexis de Tocqueville

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Because the country couldn't afford it...Money$$$$
Mar 24, 2010 1:41AM PDT

Look at the problems of getting a few hundred people ( H of R and Senate) to agree and pass a law, multiply that by hundreds of thousands ALL with their OWN interest at heart....


Weekly plebiscites?

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The problems you speak of
Mar 24, 2010 1:48AM PDT

would be non-existant because the only cost would be to have the voting booths set up once or twice a year with electoral board reps there to do the counting and reporting to the reps in DC to then vot according to OUR wishes and not theirs. There would only be TWO choices on the ballots....FOR or AGAINST so the hundreds of thousands would not have other amendments or changes be added in that vote. Up or down...black and white.

TONI H

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NIce idea but impractical...
Mar 24, 2010 1:22AM PDT

Our Founders specifically did NOT want direct democracy of this kind because it could easily lead to abuse. That's why we have a Representative form of government. The problem is the people who are in office.

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Agree
Mar 24, 2010 1:24AM PDT

Do you think the Founders anticipated ACORN style ballot box stuffing??

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But the abuse
Mar 24, 2010 1:28AM PDT

has been coming DIRECTLY from those Reps. We couldn't do any worse than what THEY brought down the pike.

TONI H

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We couldn't do any worse
Mar 24, 2010 4:01AM PDT

yes you could

IF more people vote against the way you do...what would be your argument then?

Would you just take it and not mention it again?

Keep sending them back to the drawing board, nothing changes, nothing gets done, right or wrong, everything stays as it is, the country stagnates.

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A number of European countries run on referenda
Mar 24, 2010 1:32AM PDT

And certainly it is the best way to let people express their opinions on issues. I think the draw back arises when new situations arise needing swift action. Something like Health Care could have been enacted by referendum very well, especially with the numbers in the polls around the time of Obama's election, but what do you do on 9/11/2001 when you want to respond to terrorism, or on 8/28/2005 in order to respond to Hurricane Katrina.

I know, Toni, that we find ourselves on opposite sides of many questions, but here we are very close together. Direct Democracy as it was practiced in many towns in New England for a couple of Centuries really is the ideal, and was I believe an assumed adjunct to the Republican Electoral College system instituted originally in America.

I wish the world was slow enough to permit Direct Democracy. I'd be a lot happier, and I think the population of the US would be too.

Rob

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Ideally
Mar 24, 2010 1:41AM PDT

We could have people voting on normal legislation on a regular twice a year or once a year basis...with our PART TIME representatives in Washington DC then passing those bills on the results of OUR vote. Those part time reps could then be given authority IN EMERGENCIES ONLY to vote on items such as you stated in your post.

No bennies for those reps other than a PART TIME paycheck and they can hold down their normal FULL TIME jobs elsewhere where they could have the SAME freaking health care package that we will be looking at soon, instead of giving themselves the free ride without it like they just did by exempting themselves, their aides, and up the food chain.

TONI H

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I would support a way...
Mar 24, 2010 2:57AM PDT

...for the citizens to directly repeal any law passed through a referendum vote. Perhaps it could be based on a majority of state governors agreeing to the referendum and then it becomes mandatory to have the vote. That would bring some power back to the states, and their citizens. I'm waiting for the day, which may be coming soon, in which the governors call for a constitutional convention which purpose would be to reform and reign in the Federal govt, restoring powers to the states.

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That would be a democracy, not a republic and...
Mar 24, 2010 4:13AM PDT

...a true democracy is a bad idea. What we need is divided representation for the people. A legislative body that writes laws and a separate body that votes on them so that we don't have one group of people writing the law the way they want it and then voting on it themselves.

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A divided representation
Mar 24, 2010 4:27AM PDT

by only a handful of representatives is NOT what we need...if we are informed FULLY about laws that are being considered BEFORE the vote is taken and NOT find out about the hidden goodies, then the MAJORITY of the vote by the PEOPLE themselves should be the rule. If more voting people turn up at the polls that are opposed to what I want, I would be okay with that. If more voting people turned up at the polls that are in favor of what I want, I would be okay with that. To have only a handful of representatives representing an ENTIRE state and country ignoring MY (and others opposing or otherwise) wishes and deciding for THEMSELVES what is best for ME or us, is a farce regarding true representation.

The Constitution itself gives limited power to the FEDERAL government with the STATES having all of the power except for militarily protecting our country. I want MY Constitution back...wherein the STATE governs according to the PEOPLE within it.

TONI H

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If more voting people turned up at the polls
Mar 24, 2010 5:00AM PDT
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and about the same percentage
Mar 24, 2010 5:11AM PDT

winds up running the country in the House and Senate...BUT at least the PEOPLE would be the ones speaking instead of reps with their own agenda and ignoring the ones who actually speak. I strongly believe that MORE than 1/3 of the people would show up at the polls to vote if OUR voices were the ones that decide instead of agenda seeking elected officials. Like I said, people like my sister NEVER vote because they feel defeated before they start because they believe that no matter WHAT we have to say, the officials will do what THEY want instead of what WE want.

TONI H

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I agree
Mar 24, 2010 5:32AM PDT

A lot have quit voting because they feel it's useless, just like a lot have quite looking for work anymore which is why the real unemployment rate is over 17%, not at 9%. When you look at the way they figure unemployment rate and applied that to voters, then it would look like those not voting were a smaller percentage. Funny how they apply funny math (lying math) depending on the situation.

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First, you have to get their attention
Mar 24, 2010 5:37AM PDT

set up a system amongst the citizens

Pick 1/2 of the members now serving and turf them out in Nov 2010 election. (no matter how they vote or party)

Nov 2012 election turf the other half out. (no matter how they vote or party)

Replace half each election. (no matter how they vote or party)

That will prevent them from making a career out of politics.

That will get their attention.

But the problem with this system is, they'll grab everything they can in their 1 term of service.

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We need a people inspired reform act against Congress
Mar 24, 2010 5:28AM PDT

CONGRESSIONAL REFORM ACT OF 2010

1. Term Limits: 12 years only, one of the possible options below:
A. Two Six year Senate terms
B. Six Two year House terms
C. One Six year Senate term and three Two Year House terms

2. No Tenure / No Pension:
A congressman collects a salary while in office and receives
no pay when they are out of office.3. Congress (past, present & future) participates in Social Security:
All funds in the Congressional retirement fund moves to the
Social Security system immediately.
All future funds flow into the Social Security system,
Congress participates with the American people.

4. Congress can purchase their own retirement plan just as all Americans.

5. Congress will no longer vote them a pay raise.
Congressional pay will rise by the lower of CPI or 3%.

6. Congress loses their current health care system and participates
in the same health care system as the American people.

7. Congress must equally abide in all laws imposed on the American people.

8. All contracts with past and present congressmen are void effective 1/1/11.
The American people did not make this contract with congressmen ?
congressmen made all these contracts for themselves.

SERVING IN CONGRESS IS AN HONOR, NOT A CAREER!
THE FOUNDING FATHERS ENVISIONED CITIZEN LEGISLATORS WOULD SERVE THEIR TERM(S), THEN GO
HOME AND BACK TO WORK.