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General discussion

MoveOn.com

Jan 28, 2004 9:27AM PST

Discussion is locked

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Re:MoveOn.com
Jan 28, 2004 9:35AM PST

Please, give me a break! Plain old slamming; the democrats are stooping really low, as usual. Since they can't compete, they fall into the gutter.

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Re: 'stooping low'
Jan 28, 2004 12:32PM PST
Senate panel's GOP staff pried on Democrats; infiltration of files seen as extensive.
>>Republican staff members of the US Senate Judiciary Commitee infiltrated opposition computer files for a year, monitoring secret strategy memos and periodically passing on copies to the media, Senate officials told The [Boston] Globe.... For Democrats, the scandal highlights GOP dirty tricks that could result in ethics complaints to the Senate and the Washington Bar -- or even criminal charges under computer intrusion laws. <<

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!
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Wasn't there something in recent history called 'Watergate'.......?
Jan 28, 2004 12:47PM PST

.
Thanks to modern technology they didn't even have to pick any locks. I guess you couldn't call this breaking and entering could you? They are saying that it wasn't even hacking.

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Democrats Prayer; "Please God, (whom we insist be rejected in schools...)
Jan 29, 2004 2:34AM PST

send us another Watergate. We are going to try everything we can do to set it up for you too! (could you avoid noticing our attacks on your works in our country's courthouses?) Lord, we are so much better than those evil Republicans (even if many do support your positions) so we demand you give us a Watergate to scream about again, to work to our advantage. And Lord, please strike that Rush Limbaugh for his drug usage, but overlook our dear Senator Kennedy and his past history and the death of, uh..what was her name? Lord if you will bless our underhanded methods we will pay even more attention to you through our ACLU which concerns itself so greatly with matters of religious expression in our nation. In closing Lord, remember, we believe in policies that entrench the poor in poverty and we know how you feel toward the poor, so remember, we are doing all we can for you, AMEN."

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Speaking of Senator Kennedy...
Jan 29, 2004 3:20AM PST

My new bumper stickers arrived today. One reads:

"Ted Kennedy's cars have killed more people than my guns!"

The other reads:

"Guns kill people like SPOONS made Rosie O'Donnell FAT!"

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I like those.
Jan 29, 2004 5:06AM PST

.

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There were some other good ones too...
Jan 29, 2004 5:57AM PST
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After the Dems failed to secure their files with passwords, etc. (NT)
Jan 28, 2004 12:50PM PST

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Re: After Dems failed to secure their files -- For shame!
Jan 28, 2004 10:14PM PST

KP, that is the most morally bankrupt post I've seen on here since the thread trying to justify slavery as being morally permissible because it was legal at the time. I guess by the "logic" in your post, you wouldn't mind someone walking in, taking you and your family hostage, and cleaning out your house if your kid forgot to lock the door? It certainly wouldn't be the thieves' fault, right?

In this case, there were passwords, but the authorization check in the program was broken.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Republicans reading Dem memos is on the same par as slavery? Where is your sense or proportion? Also,
Jan 28, 2004 11:04PM PST

I noted some of the following:

'(Republicans) said that in the summer of 2002, their computer technician informed his Democratic counterpart of the glitch, but Democrats did nothing to fix the problem.'

'Other revelations from the memos include Democrats' race-based characterization of Estrada as "especially dangerous, because . . . he is Latino," which they feared would make him difficult to block from a later promotion to the Supreme Court.'

'And, at the request of the NAACP, the Democrats delayed any hearings for the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals until after it heard a landmark affirmative action case -- though a memo noted that staffers "are a little concerned about the propriety of scheduling hearings based on the resolution of a particular case."'

...and so on.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/01/22/infiltration_of_files_seen_as_extensive?mode=PF

Where is your outrage at what was revealed? Where is your outrage at what the Democrats deliberately did to good people to win their power games? Where is your outrage at the technical incompetence and malfeasance?

Frankly, I think it is a good thing that this sleaze was exposed. It shows both the depth of the depravity, and the sheer incompetence in the Democrat party. These people want to control the government and they can't even secure their own documents? They devise sleazy schemes and then describe them in email? I shudder to think what would happen if they had access to national security information.

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P.S. Here's who did it Dave.
Jan 28, 2004 11:17PM PST

'The computer glitch dates to 2001, when Democrats took control of the Senate after the defection from the GOP of Senator Jim Jeffords, Independent of Vermont.

A technician hired by the new judiciary chairman, Patrick Leahy, Democrat of Vermont, apparently made a mistake that allowed anyone to access newly created accounts on a Judiciary Committee server shared by both parties -- even though the accounts were supposed to restrict access only to those with the right password'

That's kind of like leaving money laying around and then condemning domestic help if they steal it. BTW, can you point me to the thread where I said slavery was moral? I don't recall saying that EVER.

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Re:P.S. Here's who did it Dave.
Jan 28, 2004 11:34PM PST
That's kind of like leaving money laying around and then condemning domestic help if they steal it.

The domestic help still STOLE the money, right? Stealing is stealing, regardless of how easy it might have been to do it.
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Yes they did, but the owner acted immorally by creating an overwhelming temptation.
Jan 29, 2004 12:33AM PST

I'm referring to cases in Africa where Europeans created did this kind of temptation, and the desperately poor black servants were punished for yielding to the temptation.

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(NT) So are you suggesting by analogy that the Republicans are desperate?
Jan 29, 2004 1:34AM PST

.

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No, but the Dems sure are. (I've been reading recent posts) (NT)
Jan 29, 2004 2:52AM PST

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I don't think that's so
Jan 29, 2004 5:11AM PST

If Dean were still the frontrunner, maybe. But the race seems to be taking focus and the voters appear to be using their heads. Kerry is far more likely to give Bush a run for his money (literally and figuratively) than Dean. Don't be surprised to see a Kerry/Edwards ticket in November.

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Democratic bait on a hook. Republicans try to secure it, the Dems sink the hook.(nt)
Jan 29, 2004 2:19AM PST

.

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Thieves And Hackers...
Jan 29, 2004 11:59AM PST
Democratic bait on a hook. Republicans try to secure it, the Dems sink the hook. - James Denison

This sounds like another made up story to try to convince people that the Republican hackers did nothing wrong. Perhaps if it is true and you disagree with the tactic, you probably also disagree with the following tactic that is regularly used all over the world to catch auto thieves...

Decoy car used to trap thieves

Maybe you believe that instead of going after the car thieves, police forces should be denied the ability to catch car thieves. Maybe you believe that in the event that someone leaves their keys in their car and it is stolen, the owner should be blamed and the thief should be allowed to go free...
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Do us a favor, and thoroughly read Dave's link.
Jan 29, 2004 12:12PM PST

You'll find that the GOP was neither hacker nor thief. The material was left out in the open for all to see, and it was put there by the Dems.

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Beyond The Pale...
Jan 29, 2004 1:03PM PST
You'll find that the GOP was neither hacker nor thief. The material was left out in the open for all to see, and it was put there by the Dems. - Kiddpeat

You are free to interpret this however pleases you. But apparently, the Secret Service isn't as convinced as you. Orrin Hatch also understands the magnitude of this and has taken pains to distance himself from the incident. That doesn't sound like the actions of people who feel that no Republican wrong was committed...

"The office of Senate Sergeant-at-Arms William Pickle has already launched an investigation into how excerpts from 15 Democratic memos showed up in the pages of the conservative-leaning newspapers and were posted to a website last November.

With the help of forensic computer experts from General Dynamics and the US Secret Service, his office has interviewed about 120 people to date and seized more than half a dozen computers -- including four Judiciary servers, one server from the office of Senate majority leader Bill Frist of Tennessee, and several desktop hard drives.

But the scope of both the intrusions and the likely disclosures is now known to have been far more extensive than the November incident, staffers and others familiar with the investigation say...

"They had an obligation to tell each of the people whose files they were intruding upon -- assuming it was an accident -- that that was going on so those people could protect themselves," said one Senate staffer. "To keep on getting these files is just beyond the pale.""


There are some here who claim that the Democrats were told about the glitch. But that assertion is in contention...

"Republicans yesterday offered a new defense. They said that in the summer of 2002, their computer technician informed his Democratic counterpart of the glitch, but Democrats did nothing to fix the problem.

Other staffers, however, denied that the Democrats were told anything about it before November 2003."


Here is what Republican Senator Orrin Hatch has to say. He doesn't seem to agree that there was no impropriety...

"Orrin Hatch, Republican of Utah, made a preliminary inquiry and described himself as "mortified that this improper, unethical and simply unacceptable breach of confidential files may have occurred on my watch."

Hatch also confirmed that "at least one current member of the Judiciary Committee staff had improperly accessed at least some of the documents referenced in media reports." He did not name the staffer, who he said was being placed on leave and who sources said has since resigned"

More...


Of course you have a right to disagree with Republicans as well as Democrats about this incident...
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Setting the snare.
Jan 29, 2004 2:36PM PST
Jeremiah 5:26 - For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men.

This thing was set up by Democrats and they've been waiting for any Republican to come along and trip the trap so they could try and turn it into a Watergate.

Oh, and Blake, enticing others to commit a crime or sin is itself a sin.
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Violating The Wishes Of God...
Jan 29, 2004 3:04PM PST
This thing was set up by Democrats and they've been waiting for any Republican to come along and trip the trap so they could try and turn it into a Watergate. - James Denison

Do you have any links and proof to support your accusation or are you just making up another of your fictional stories that you provide for us from time to time? This sounds very similar to the tactic that GW uses...

Remember, Iraq has WMD's and we know how much and where they are stored? Remember, Iraq and Al Qaeda have close ties and Saddam is responsible for 911? Remember that Iraq purchased Uranium from Algeria? Remember that the aluminum tubes could only be used to process nuclear fuel? Remember that Saddam could attack the UK within 45 minutes? Remember GW claiming to be a uniter not a divider? Remember that the UN is insignificant and cannot help us with Iraq???

It's one thing to make assumptions. It's another to claim that those assumptions are true...

Jeremiah 5:26 - For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men...

enticing others to commit a crime or sin is itself a sin. - James Denison


According to your Old Testament Bible passage, we should dismantle our police agencies because they use stings and decoys to catch and arrest criminals. Apparently, according to your Bible verse, our police forces are violating the wishes of God...
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Bad neighborhood, keys left in car, kid steals it and wrecks, you get sued.(nt)
Jan 29, 2004 2:16AM PST

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Re:Bad neighborhood, keys left in car, kid steals it and wrecks, you get sued.(nt)
Jan 29, 2004 2:34AM PST

And you shouldn't be sued, or liable in any other way. It's your car and if you want to leave your keys in it, that's your business. The car thief is still a car thief.

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I agree with you.
Jan 29, 2004 2:40AM PST

Personal integrity should be a demand in law with some limited exceptions.

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Kinda makes you wonder how many...
Jan 29, 2004 3:33AM PST

Republican memos the Democrits passed around.

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No Dave, you still retain undisputed title to 'Most Morally Bankrupt'
Jan 29, 2004 3:31AM PST

with foetus == parasite. Helped along with your support of partial birth abortion.

Accounts have it that the Democrat's were made aware of the problem in 2002 but apparen;y couldn't get someone else to fix their problem for them so they ignored it.

By the way, where did you see that "In this case there were passwords..." I didn't and I didn't skim the article. The only password mentioned was the user password, NOT file encryption or passwords.

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Re: No Dave, you still retain undisputed title -- You've crossed the line...
Jan 29, 2004 10:57PM PST

Hi, Ed.

You've crossed theline with your post, but I'll leave it up. I did NOT say that Kp was morally bankrupt -- I said that his POSITION is morally bankrupt, and it is. And much as you may not like it, a fetus does indeed fit the exact scientific definition of a parasite. Parasites can be beautiful and much admired -- lok at the orchid. But when it comes to a choice between the life of the host and the life of the parasite, there's only one correct answer.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Then I will say YOUR POSITION and although it means...
Jan 30, 2004 1:01AM PST

the same should make you feel better.

You have been pointed REPEATEDLY to the scientific definitions or parasite and a foetus does NOT meet the definition.

Feel better knowing that your position on foetus == parasite is the epitome of moral bankruptcy? YOU aren't, just YOUR POSITION!

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Shame on you Dave! The article is pretty clear that no skullduggery was involved.
Jan 29, 2004 5:03AM PST

I just realized what this means:

'A technician hired by the new judiciary chairman, Patrick Leahy, Democrat of Vermont, apparently made a mistake that allowed anyone to access newly created accounts on a Judiciary Committee server shared by both parties'

from your own Boston.com link. It sounds like the Republicans could suddenly see new files and/or directories when opening documents. If you see a new document on your system, it is quite natural to open it to see what it is. In other words, The Dems made it an open system which was NOT password protected, as I originally said.

Leaving a letter laying on a table in the coffee room at work for all to see is in no way comparable to a thief coming into your house.

Now, what the Dems want us to think is that they were too stupid to figure this out. Why is there no investigation of what Democrat staffers looked at in Republican files? Is this the old switcharoo? Blame the Republicans for what the Dems were also doing. After all, it was the Dems' technician that opened this back door. Or, are the Dems simply as stupid as they look?