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General discussion

More speculation on climate change ...

by Bill Osler Mar 23, 2010 11:19AM PDT

Climate change of a different sort. It seems that volcanic activity in Iceland may have temporarily changed the world's climate a couple hundred years ago. Now some people are speculating about a second act. We'll see.

One of the frustrating things about the web is that it allows wild speculation to run rampant.

Iceland's eruptions could have global consequences
Iceland's Laki volcano erupted in 1783, freeing gases that turned into smog. The smog floated across the Jet Stream, changing weather patterns. Many died from gas poisoning in the British Isles. Crop production fell in western Europe. Famine spread. Some even linked the eruption, which helped fuel famine, to the French Revolution. Painters in the 18th century illustrated fiery sunsets in their works.

The winter of 1784 was also one of the longest and coldest on record in North America. New England reported a record stretch of below-zero temperatures and New Jersey reported record snow accumulation. The Mississippi River also reportedly froze in New Orleans.

Discussion is locked

1 - 30 of 37 Posts
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Wouldn't it be funny...
by EdHannigan Mar 23, 2010 12:05PM PDT

(not in a ha ha way) if this led to global freezing? I think it further highlights that WE DO NOT KNOW what goes on with climate.

Reminds me somewhat of gloom and doomers a few years ago going on about bird flu. If we were all gonna die because of bird flu, why worry about global warming?

Be interesting to see how this develops.

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It matters not !!!!!!!
by Mike_Hanks Mar 23, 2010 8:56PM PDT

If the world starts to cool the warmist answer will be that the cooling is hiding the warming.

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ROFL!!!!!
by James Denison Mar 23, 2010 10:10PM PDT

Yeah, raining on their AGW parade, all the floats start wilting, the marchers dripping, and the crowds start leaving before the parade is over.

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Indeed ...
by Kees Bakker Mar 23, 2010 10:15PM PDT

if increasing CO2 is warming the earth and increasing vulcanic ashes or decreasing sun spots are cooling the earth, there is a net result that can be positive or negative, depending on how big each individual factor is.

Climate science is difficult - even for the climate scientists - but on this level it should be understandable for everybody.

Kees

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wouldn't it be ironic
by James Denison Mar 23, 2010 10:22PM PDT

If mankind expired on an frozen earth with a 100% carbon dioxide atmosphere? That would certainly settle it to the satisfaction of both sides.

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(NT) Yeah, that's likely.
by EdHannigan Mar 23, 2010 10:23PM PDT
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Canard
by Mike_Hanks Mar 23, 2010 10:24PM PDT

"IF" CO2 is ..............
Still completely unproven.
Bliss is nice though.

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I recall reading that the pressure to develop the first
by drpruner. Apr 15, 2010 6:18AM PDT

supercomputers came mainly from two disciplines: nuclear weapons research and weather modeling. World has some pretty hot bombs now, but still can't model everything the earth has been producing routinely for millions of years.

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I saw that and...
by James Denison Mar 23, 2010 12:16PM PDT

...was thinking of it the other way, wondering where the climate worry warts were to complain about the melting of the glacier there. Thanks for the info on the effect of past effect from Iceland vulcanism, I didn't know that.

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(NT) hope that it doesn't hit Krakatoa strength
by jonah jones Mar 23, 2010 9:26PM PDT
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The history of
by Mike_Hanks Mar 23, 2010 8:58PM PDT

global cooling and major volcanic eruptions is well correlated .
But there is no money in it.

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Update...
by EdHannigan Apr 15, 2010 2:19AM PDT
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8622978.stm

Iceland's volcanic ash halts flights in northern Europe

Airspace was closed or flights cancelled in countries including the UK, the Republic of Ireland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and France.

The ash, which can damage aeroplane engines, was produced by a volcanic eruption under a glacier in Iceland.

Flooding was reported as the glacier melted, and up to 800 people were evacuated from the area on Wednesday.

By Thursday afternoon, the UK had shut its airspace and other countries, from Belgium to Scandinavia, were in the process of following suit.
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I wonder...
by C1ay Apr 15, 2010 2:49AM PDT

How many of the other billions of planets in the Universe are experiencing climate change and how much of their change is caused by humans?

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so, do you think
by JP Bill Apr 15, 2010 3:32AM PDT

man has NO effect in this planet?

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(NT) Did I say that?
by C1ay Apr 15, 2010 3:48AM PDT
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(NT) Is that a Yes or a No?
by JP Bill Apr 15, 2010 5:06AM PDT
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Is it not obvious....
by C1ay Apr 15, 2010 3:09PM PDT
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Do I think Climate Change on Mars is caused by humans?
by JP Bill Apr 15, 2010 8:02PM PDT

NO! definitely NO!

Do you think that, what humans do to the environment has ANY effect of the weather/climate? (on planet Earth/the only place that I know of with humans)

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(NT) Everything on Earth has an effect on Earth
by C1ay Apr 15, 2010 9:59PM PDT
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So that's a Yes
by JP Bill Apr 15, 2010 10:08PM PDT

I asked about Humans and weather/climate

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(NT) Certainly, everything on Earth affects it's weather/climate
by C1ay Apr 15, 2010 11:43PM PDT
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Question is how?
by EdHannigan Apr 15, 2010 11:54PM PDT

And how much. That's what the dispute is all about.

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We don't have enough data and resources to answer that...
by C1ay Apr 16, 2010 8:11AM PDT

We can only speculate and speculation is not something that should be used to define policy.

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Are you saying...
by J. Vega Apr 15, 2010 4:11AM PDT

Are you saying that volcanic eruptions are caused by humans?

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(NT) Is he saying there are humans on other planets?
by JP Bill Apr 15, 2010 5:09AM PDT
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That would confuse the evolutionsts.
by MarkFlax Former Forum moderator Apr 15, 2010 5:18AM PDT

But perhaps not the creationists. Happy

Mark

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No, he isn't saying that.
by Kees Bakker Apr 15, 2010 5:20AM PDT

He's just wondering if
- there's life on other planets
- of so, if you can call (some of) those living creatures "humans"
- and if so, if they had other than their purely biological existence (let's say: technological ways) of changing the climate on them.

That process of changing the climate is (somewhat anthropocentric) called "terraforming" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming). It's well know from Science Fiction literature from the last century.
Artificial increasing CO2 contents of the atmosphere is one of the proposed mechanisms to do it.

Kees

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"wild speculation to run rampant"??
by drpruner. Apr 15, 2010 6:15AM PDT

I thought the 'Net was all fact! There's my idealism destroyed!

Wasn't there also a year in the US of 'Eighteen hundred and froze-to-death'? I believe that was also volcanic.

And remember that Pinatubo's ashes now cover Clark AFB, formerly one of the country's most important. That one also ruined millions of dollars of civilian aviation turbines.

On www.iris.edu, at the seismic activity page, the 'ring of fire' line in the Atlantic (marking plate boundaries) runs right up to poor Iceland.

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Eighteen hundred and froze-to-death
by EdHannigan Apr 15, 2010 7:21AM PDT

1816 Mount Tambora in Indonesia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer

The Year Without a Summer (also known as the Poverty Year, Year There Was No Summer and Eighteen Hundred and Froze to Death[1]) was 1816, in which severe summer climate abnormalities destroyed crops in Northern Europe, the Northeastern United States and eastern Canada. Average global temperatures decreased about 0.4?0.7

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If bad enough, no one will be left to debate.
by drpruner. Apr 15, 2010 7:38AM PDT

I think GW- in most discussions- is a long-term phenomenon, while the more spectacular is short-term. Interaction calculations will send us back to the supercomputers.

Anyway, I'm relying on Rev 11:18b and Ps 37:29.

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