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More on Moore

by Edward ODaniel / July 1, 2004 8:03 AM PDT

His fictional "documentary" continues to fall apart.

Richard Clarke: Big Part of Moore's Movie 'a Mistake'
(this is located on NewsMax.com which I know his apologizers will not like so I will provide additional links you may prefer:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38669
http://www.timeswatch.org/articles/2004/0622.asp
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5296236/ (which lists other fabrications in the movie also)

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39004 (number of theaters showing movie decline rapidly--original claim of "more than 1000" is down to 417 as of 17 June)

For Slate.com, Christopher Hitchens, a left-leaning journalist, wrote, ?To describe [Fahrenheit 9/11] as dishonest and demagogic would almost be to promote those terms to the level of respectability.? He goes so far as to compare Moore to Leni Riefenstahl, who made those gorgeously photographed propaganda films for Adolf Hitler. http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723

The New York Times critic A.O. Scott sums up Fahrenheit 9/11 like this: "The film is many things: a partisan rallying cry, an angry polemic, a muckraking inquisition into the use and abuse of power. But one thing it is not is a fair and nuanced picture of the president and his policies."

Newsday'Fahrenheit 9/11' could boil Democrats

James P. Pinkerton

June 24, 2004


'Fahrenheit 9/11" is a prosecution brief.

The Michael Moore documentary, which opens tomorrow, arranges a set of facts - or almost facts - directed against George W. Bush and sets them out for the jury, the American people. But the irony might be that while Moore seeks to "convict" Bush - that is, defeat him at the polls - the unintended consequence might be to "acquit" Bush instead.

Like a veteran prosecutor's opening statement, the movie is a fast-moving blur of allegations, punctuated by emotional-string-pulling and even a little humor. The film argues that Bush was dangerously neglectful of the threat posed by Osama bin Laden and al-Qaida prior to 9/11 - and that's just in the first few minutes.

...

In addition, Moore is not above a fact-twist or two. The film seems to allege that the Bush administration allowed more than 100 Saudis, including members of bin Laden's extended family, to leave the U.S. right after 9/11. Yet it fails to note that the dubious decision to let the Saudis leave was made by former counter-terrorism czar Richard Clarke - who appears on camera, talking about other topics, as a witness for Moore's prosecution.

...

So if Moore's film is a hit at the box office, it's more likely to turn Kerry voters into Nader voters than it is to turn Bush voters into Kerry voters. That probably isn't Moore's intention, but the problem with zealous prosecutors is that once they get their blood up for the big confrontation, it's hard to get them to cool down, even if that would have been best for their case.


Moore has hired a "rebuttal team" of fact checkers and advisers to respond to accusations of lies in the film. What's worth noting is that his accusers are likely some of the same conservatives who rallied around The Passion. They will be busy but unsuccessful.

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Re: More on Moore
by Mark G / July 1, 2004 2:30 PM PDT
In reply to: More on Moore

ed im supprised they havent pulled this yet the mods are getting to over powered ask steve but thats ok the facts cant be deleted no matter how many times they delete

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(NT) (NT) Have you seen it, Edward?
by Charlie Thunell PL&T / July 1, 2004 2:31 PM PDT
In reply to: More on Moore
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No Charlie, just the trailer but...
by Edward ODaniel / July 1, 2004 3:21 PM PDT

it starts with a lie and doesn't get any better.

I do not have to be a consumer of feces to know it is excreta--do you?

I don't have to check for heart beat on a rotting, bloated, maggot infested body to know it is dead--do you?

Some things are just obvious from casual observation and knowledge of past endeavors.

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I hope you enjoyed that Charlie
by SteveGargini / July 1, 2004 3:58 PM PDT

about your septic film Happy

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Oh... and...
by Charlie Thunell PL&T / July 1, 2004 4:58 PM PDT

.
"No Charlie, just the trailer but...
it starts with a lie and doesn't get any better." - Edward O'Daniel


How do you know it doesn't get better if you haven't seen it?
.

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Re: Oh... and...
by Mark G / July 1, 2004 5:24 PM PDT
In reply to: Oh... and...

if i want fiction ill look up the war heros of france, germany,sweden should be a fast read

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(NT) (NT) Seen the movie Mark?
by Charlie Thunell PL&T / July 1, 2004 5:36 PM PDT
In reply to: Re: Oh... and...
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why do i have to see it to hate it
by Mark G / July 2, 2004 9:43 AM PDT

you judge the us soldiers without ever being one?

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Huge difference...
by Charlie Thunell PL&T / July 3, 2004 7:06 AM PDT

.
First of all I don't judge any soldiers! I judge those who send them out in a war that is getting harder and harder to defend. And the soldiers I may judge are those who have made themselves responsible for the systematic tortures in the prisons.
.

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Re: (NT) Seen the movie Mark?
by prescotthenry / July 5, 2004 6:53 AM PDT

Why would anyone concerned with the truth give Moore the $$$? We've already heard his anti-american themes ad naseum!

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I'll refer you to my previous post
by Edward ODaniel / July 2, 2004 4:36 AM PDT
In reply to: Oh... and...

it is getting obvious that you personally feel a need to taste things.

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Re: Oh... and... Could it be because.........
by Glenda / July 5, 2004 9:51 AM PDT
In reply to: Oh... and...

everything that has been seen on TV and in print proves what Michael Moore believes? I wouldn't watch anything he makes or promotes! Just as I wouldn't invite a drunk or drug dealer to reside in my home and spout his views!
Glenda

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Re: No Charlie, just the trailer but...
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / July 4, 2004 12:20 PM PDT

Hi, Ed.

I haven't seen it, but went to "Spider Man 2" (An EXCELLENT film, btw) with friends who saw it Thursday night at a theater in SE Houston -- Bush country, one would think. They said the lines were the longest they'd ever seen, and that the film received a 2-3 minute standing ovation at the end. I'm only reporting on audience reaction, not the film's quality, since I've also seen only the trailer.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Re: No Charlie, just the trailer but...
by Edward ODaniel / July 5, 2004 9:00 AM PDT

Considering who would bother seeing it, lines and ovation are not surprising, nor do they comment on its honesty or truthfulness.

In a city the size of Houston and its surrounding area, how long would the lines at 50 theaters have to be to even be meaningful? (lets assume each person takes up a really tight two feet of space in the line--a one mile line at each theater would be 132,000 people. With a population of 1,953,631 in 2000 census {that doesn't count the surrounding area that the theaters would also draw from which would bring the metropolitan area population to around 4,000,000}, that would be around 7%. Not too impressive at all considering that Houston and surrounding area has a goodly percentage of Democrats.)

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Ed, Just knowing the political views of SE members.....
by Glenda / July 5, 2004 9:48 AM PDT

that extol the virtues of Michael Moore, I have no need to watch his garbage.
Glenda

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Charlie, I'll admit maybe there is a stupid...
by James Denison / July 2, 2004 10:36 AM PDT

...conservative that is only too willing to drag money out of his pocket and put it in Moore's pocket, but I hope most of them have the good sense to not support Moore's muckraking. If they want to see it, I would advise wait till it finds its proper place on some weekend's late night movie spot where they can see it for free, without enriching Moore.

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I havent seen it and wont but
by gearup / July 3, 2004 2:52 AM PDT

tell me just what does Moores motives or lack of talent or veracity have to do with whether or not Bush motives,veracity or talent are questionable?
But then again the non-sequiter finely honed seems to be the only thing which interests some posters in this forum!

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So...
by Charlie Thunell PL&T / July 3, 2004 9:03 AM PDT

since you ain't going to watch it (which I respect), please don't have an opinion on it either. Well, you're free to have it, but your credibility isn't the highest...
.

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Re: I havent seen it and wont but
by Paul C / July 3, 2004 9:49 AM PDT
tell me just what does Moores motives or lack of talent or veracity have to do with whether or not Bush motives,veracity or talent are questionable?

In a word, Gearup: Credibility.

If one's prepared to make the accusations that Mr. Moore makes in the film, then one had better be really credible, or else the whole exercise will backfire rather spectacularly. And after having seen the thing, I'm here to tell you that you're better served not spending the money.

The thing is shot through with exaggerations, misrepresentations and outright lies that, were they directed at other than a private citizen, would land Mr. Moore in court defending himself against libel charges.

As the various authors of the pieces Ed cites in his original post avow, this is, plain and simple, a hatchet job replete with the type of wild-eyed conspitorialism that's part and parcel of political extremism of all stripes.

I can't wait for the day someone asks John Kerry to publicly disassociate his campaign from this tripe - if only to watch him issue one of his tortuous noncritical criticisms!
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The only thing...
by Charlie Thunell PL&T / July 3, 2004 9:01 AM PDT

.
is that I wonder how anybody can have an opinion about a movie that they haven't seen, just because they don't like the director... They can have an opinion about the director, but hardly the movie per se unless they watch it.
.

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Re: The only thing...
by Mark G / July 3, 2004 9:28 AM PDT
In reply to: The only thing...

ive seen the trailers wont go as i dont like them

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Never...
by Charlie Thunell PL&T / July 3, 2004 10:33 AM PDT
In reply to: Re: The only thing...

jusdge a movie by its trailer or a book by its cover, Mark...

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(NT) (NT) I downloaded it from Kazaa for nothing and it sucked
by Tony Holmes / July 3, 2004 10:43 AM PDT
In reply to: Never...
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(NT) (NT) Tell us a few details! I'm curious!
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CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES???

.
Didn't you just commit a crime when you did that? Let's be tough on crime... Or?
.

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No sign saying picking up trash was illegal...
by Edward ODaniel / July 3, 2004 12:12 PM PDT
In reply to: CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES???

but is is going to be difficult to sanitize the hard drive.

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Copyright...
by Charlie Thunell PL&T / July 3, 2004 3:10 PM PDT

To download copyrighted material from any site or P2P is illegal...

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Picking up copyrighted material...
by Edward ODaniel / July 4, 2004 12:59 AM PDT
In reply to: Copyright...

from a dump is not illegal.

Trash is trash Charlie.

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Moore: "pirate my film..."
by Dick White / July 6, 2004 1:23 AM PDT
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Re: The only thing...
by C1ay / July 3, 2004 12:13 PM PDT
In reply to: The only thing...
is that I wonder how anybody can have an opinion about a movie that they haven't seen, just because they don't like the director... They can have an opinion about the director, but hardly the movie per se unless they watch it.

Sounds to me like your record's broken. It's skipping and playing the same dribble over and over and over....

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