Speakeasy forum

General discussion

More Kerry shipmates speak out

Discussion is locked
You are posting a reply to: More Kerry shipmates speak out
The posting of advertisements, profanity, or personal attacks is prohibited. Please refer to our CNET Forums policies for details. All submitted content is subject to our Terms of Use.
Track this discussion and email me when there are updates

If you're asking for technical help, please be sure to include all your system info, including operating system, model number, and any other specifics related to the problem. Also please exercise your best judgment when posting in the forums--revealing personal information such as your e-mail address, telephone number, and address is not recommended.

You are reporting the following post: More Kerry shipmates speak out
This post has been flagged and will be reviewed by our staff. Thank you for helping us maintain CNET's great community.
Sorry, there was a problem flagging this post. Please try again now or at a later time.
If you believe this post is offensive or violates the CNET Forums' Usage policies, you can report it below (this will not automatically remove the post). Once reported, our moderators will be notified and the post will be reviewed.
Collapse -
(NT) (NT) Link doesn't work for me...

In reply to: More Kerry shipmates speak out

Collapse -
Did you mean this page?

In reply to: More Kerry shipmates speak out

Your link didn't work for me either, but I think you were referring to:
The Kerry Page

Collapse -
That's the one, Bill

In reply to: Did you mean this page?

Collapse -
Dear Del ...

In reply to: That's the one, Bill

I like to follow American matters (the UK being not un-associated (excuse the double negative), as you know, but don't usually get myself involved in your political debates. But I'm curious about this one: Isn't it the case that any person seeking a job will "vamp up" his CV and is it not more particularly true that their speeches are written by others?

Therefore, why not attach the blame to publicists and writers, spin doctors et al? (Whether for Kerry or Bush).

Don't you vote for them on the basis of what they are saying about the future (rather than the past) and if you don't believe them, don't vote for them.

In truth, I like to read about their future policies. If they are being disingenuous (and who really knows since either will say whatever to get the votes) at least their stated convictions will be taken to task sooner or later.

Just a thought.

Regards
Mo

Collapse -
This particular article contained

In reply to: Dear Del ...

....a goodly amount of positive comments about Kerry,
and although it contained some criticism, I wouldn't call
the article, as a whole, and anti-Kerry piece.

Collapse -
Mo....

In reply to: Dear Del ...

>>>Don't you vote for them on the basis of what they are saying about the future (rather than the past) and if you don't believe them, don't vote for them.>>>

In the case, especially, of looking for a new leader of our country, the American people will look for the past of a candidate to give them information that points toward a credible and established history to determine what qualifies that person for the job in the future.

All candidates can say what they will do for our future, but if their past performance is an indicator for how they react under certain conditions, we have a better idea of how those promises ring true. In Kerry's case, his past performance as a military leader has been emphasized by HIM rather than emphasizing his political history. You have to wonder why he isn't making a case about what he's done for the American people in the 30 years he's been in office already.

If you look at both sets of history (military and political), Kerry has mislead the people badly as both of those histories have proven to be either exaggerated to make himself look better or not brought up at all because he hasn't got any legs to stand on to show otherwise. His political career all by itself is a sham which is why it's hardly mentioned by him or any of his publicists....he has no record of good standing for all those years. And his running mate is silently standing in the background without expounding HIS political experience either because his history also reflects how badly he's screwed the working 'joe' over the years in favor of big business and his own pockets.

Neither one can be believed regarding our future....with Bush, at least, when he tells you he's getting in your face, you know he's not kidding around. He may have made mistakes, he may have depended on information that turned out to be wrong, but he never leaves you with any doubt about what he intends to do and tries to do just that. Running our country (or any country) is a tremendous responsibility....and I would personally rather have somebody who doesn't skirt that job by missing important meetings because they had better things to do at the time. I don't think Bush has hurt this country like Kerry will. Most of what's happened during Bush's administration were things that were already in place before he took office and after effects always take longer to see than the decision being made at the time. It's how you deal with the after effects that count, and I think he's done well and better than most would have. If Kerry had real problems with some of Bush's decisions, maybe he would have been in a better position to criticize if he had showed up at some of those meetings and voiced his opinion BEFORE rather than AFTER.

Just my opinions...

TONI

Collapse -
Dear Toni - I thank you very much and it will take me ...

In reply to: Mo....

a while to assimilate all that you have said. I keep throwing a wobbly about the power of one of the president. This is what worries me - i,e, does the balancing factor have teeth?

I'm going off to consider now...

Regards
Mo

Collapse -
Including dodgy information

In reply to: That's the one, Bill

in the book has done Kerry more harm than good.
I bet he didn't expect his former crew mates to disclose the facts. A whole bunch of situations have been proven to be very unlikely.
By the time november comes, a lot of potential voters will be shocked.

Collapse -
Re: More Kerry shipmates -- and another boat commander

In reply to: More Kerry shipmates speak out

... who also won a bronze star and was at the same engagements. Now Williams Rood, an editor of the Chicago Tribune, is speaking out for the first time:
Navy commander and journalist backs Kerry's version of events.
>>"There were three swift boats on the river that day in Vietnam more than 35 years ago -- three officers and 15 crew members. Only two of those officers remain to talk about what happened on February 28, 1969," he wrote in a story that appeared on the newspaper's Web site Saturday.

"One is John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate who won a Silver Star for what happened on that date. I am the other."

Before now, wanting to put memories of war and killing behind him, Rood had refused all requests for interviews on the subject, including from his own newspaper. "But Kerry's critics, armed with stories I know to be untrue, have charged that the accounts of what happened were overblown." he wrote.

"The critics have taken pains to say they're not trying to cast doubts on the merit of what others did, but their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us.

"It's gotten harder and harder for those of us who were there to listen to accounts we know to be untrue, especially when they come from people who were not there," he added.<<

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

Collapse -
Couldn't help but notice, Dave...

In reply to: Re: More Kerry shipmates -- and another boat commander

Dave, I copuldn't help but notice that you quoted parts of that story, which didn't include some things from Rood's full article.
I assume that you read the Rood's full article. Did you notice the words "There's at least one mistake in that citation. It incorrectly identifies the river where the main action occurred, a reminder that such documents were often done in haste and sometimes authored for their signers by staffers."? Well, I can see why you didn't want attention brought to that statement, considering the recent Democratic spin about Kerry's treatment for one of those Purple Hearts. The spin was about who signed some paperwork and the treating doctor was not the person (the spin called him a doctor) on a document. Seems to me that Rood's statement that I mentioned is not the best thing for supporting the Democrat's spin on that incident.

Collapse -
Re: Couldn't help but notice, Dave...

In reply to: Couldn't help but notice, Dave...

Hi, J.

At the time I posted I actually hadn't yet read the full article, but did this morning (it was quite late...) That passage didn't seem important to me, but I suppose it helps keep nitpickers' hopes alive!

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

Collapse -
neither excuse is surprising Dave...

In reply to: Re: Couldn't help but notice, Dave...

skimming articles and knee jerk postings and comments without solid foundation are what we have come to expect.

You didn't used to be so transparent about it though.

Collapse -
Re: Not an excuse, Ed

In reply to: neither excuse is surprising Dave...

Just differences of opinion, and mine's every bit as valid as yours. And, btw, I probably won't be posting nearly as much as usual from now until November 1st -- real world tasks demand my attention (three major projects totalling over $50 million in requested funding...) So that's your answer to "why isn't he posting" this that or the other thing...

-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

Collapse -
Difference of opinion?

In reply to: Re: Not an excuse, Ed

since when is the comment "I actually hadn't yet read the full article" an opinion? When it is followed by "That passage didn't seem important to me,... " it again does not indicate any opinion, but another excuse. The admission of not reading negates the concept of any opinion of importance of any specific passage.

As I stated, you do this often and we have grown used to it and the excuses that follow.

Collapse -
Re: More Kerry shipmates -- and another boat commander

In reply to: Re: More Kerry shipmates -- and another boat commander

Collapse -
(NT) (NT) Now, Now,...Be Gentle

In reply to: Re: More Kerry shipmates -- and another boat commander

Collapse -
Re: Townhall column -- nice distractor! Meanwhile...

That phillippic from a Kerry-hater who wasn't there has nothing to do (other than equally spiteful tone) with the campaign of lies and innuendo the Swift Boat vets full of Falsehood are now waging. BTW, did you see that one of them is actually a member of Bush's campaign team, who was forced to resign after that connection was revealed yesterday: Bush Campaign Drops Swift Boat Ad Figure. But of course, the Bush Campaign has nothing to do with the Swift Boat vets' ads -- we know that becuase his press ecretary said so. The fact that the leading fund-raisers for them all have ties to Rove and/or the Bush campaign is mere coincidence!

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

Collapse -
So when is Kerry gonna dump his MoveOn person?

In reply to: Re: Townhall column -- nice distractor! Meanwhile...

Keep drinking the kool aide Dave.

Evie Happy

Collapse -
Yes MEANWHILE indeed...

In reply to: Re: Townhall column -- nice distractor! Meanwhile...

Now you have indicated one person who resigned so I will call your one and raise you a few (I won't include the rest of the staffers and pollsters who are part and parcel of the "Parallel Campaign" of the main 527s although there are many whose names would be readily associated with either the DNC or the Kerry campaign).

Zach Exley, the director of special projects for the MoveOn PAC, is going to the Kerry campaign to become its director of online communications and organization.

Exley also worked during the Democratic presidential primary for Howard Dean, helping Dean set up his web-based organization.

Since Kerry became the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee in early March, the MoveOn PAC has spent more than $2.5 million on TV ads that attack President Bush.

This is an example of his workMoveOn.org is broadcasting an advertisement that a new Department of Labor policy will eliminate overtime pay for 8 million workers. The Kerry campaign is broadcasting ads claiming Bush is decreasing veterans? benefits, causing massive unemployment, and incurring deficits more than actually forecast.

These lies are all careful political calculations designed to alienate Bush from his core constituency.

The prevarication concerning veterans? benefits is designed to separate President Bush from military personnel and veterans who voted for him by large percentages in the last election. Indeed, it was the military vote that helped Bush win the popular vote in Florida. ...


Americans for Jobs, Health Care & Progressive Values spokesman Robert Gibbs, was also previously chief spokesman for Kerry's campaign.

Former Clinton operative Harold Ickes and Jim Jordan's (former Kerry campaign chairman) Media Fund has astoundingly similar connections.

Americans coming together is also headed by Harold Ickes.

Bill Knapp, who did ads for the Gore and Clinton presidential campaigns the past three elections, oversees the advertising operation for the Media Fund.

Since the Democrits started it don't be surprised that Republican 527 groups are also forming just as was indicated in the media when Republicans initially protested the use of 527s as a method to bypass Campaign finance Reform.

Collapse -
The Republicans in this forum must think Bush is lying.....

In reply to: Re: Townhall column -- nice distractor! Meanwhile...

...when he says that he accepts the documented history of Kerry's military service and that Kerry served his country honorably.

Guess we're all in agreement on that one!

Collapse -
(NT) (NT) Derivative of the Texas Two Step.....:-)

In reply to: The Republicans in this forum must think Bush is lying.....

Collapse -
Why would we think he's lying?

In reply to: The Republicans in this forum must think Bush is lying.....

He may be wrong on this one, but I don't think he lies about such things.

Collapse -
Wrong? He's never wrong. Just ask him.

In reply to: Why would we think he's lying?

Or ask any of the Republican members of this forum. They're almost as hard-pressed as Bush is to admit he's ever been wrong.

Collapse -
Being wrong and an outright liar

In reply to: Wrong? He's never wrong. Just ask him.

are two different things entirely.........

TONI

Collapse -
Re: Being wrong and an outright liar

In reply to: Being wrong and an outright liar

Absolutely. But a number of SE members won't even acknowledge that he's ever wrong, much less lying. I'm just wondering how he can't be wrong OR lying about this if you support Bush that completely and also believe the allegations against Kerry.

Collapse -
Wondering

In reply to: Re: Being wrong and an outright liar

>>>>The Republicans in this forum must think Bush is lying.....

...when he says that he accepts the documented history of Kerry's military service and that Kerry served his country honorably.>>>>

When and where did Bush actually say this? I haven't seen anything, at least recently, that indicates he has, but IF he has recently, is there any possibility that rather than stoop to Kerry's level and outright say Kerry is lying about it, maybe Bush is keeping low level about it while OTHERS actually find the proof before November, including giving Kerry the chance to PROVE otherwise before then.

If you are quoting something Bush said long ago, early in the race, then for obvious reasons, he isn't going to repeat it rather than be wrong a second time over this issue. There is also the possibility that Bush didn't consider Kerry to be lying or embellishing upon his experience from the git go and took Kerry's word for his record at face value at that time. There wouldn't have been much reason to argue it at that time if everyone assumed that Kerry wasn't going to make that factor in his life the entire reason for feeling he's qualified for the job afterall. If I were Bush and realized that Kerry was going to run against me, I would have assumed that Kerry would use his political career and background as the more solid reason for running rather than expound on a military career that amounted to zilch that he refuses to even prove to possible voters now that he's been 'outed'. But then again, since Kerry isn't even talking about his own political career, Bush doesn't have to do much other than let that rope that Kerry is dragging around keep playing out.

No matter which way Kerry tries to swing (politically or militarily), he's hung himself.....no more Purple Hearts for shooting himself in the foot/***.

TONI

Collapse -
Here's a link quoting him saying it

In reply to: Wondering

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/23/bush.kerry/index.html

The group has run two ads attacking Kerry. The latest accuses him of betraying fellow veterans upon his return from war. The first accused him of lying to get medals in Vietnam.

Asked whether he agrees with that allegation, Bush said, "I think Sen. Kerry served admirably. He ought to be -- he ought to be proud of his record.


It should be noted that while Bush has spoken out against the general idea of "527" ads, he has not come out to denounce the content of this ad despite the statement quoted above.
Collapse -
Re: Here's a link quoting him saying it...yes but

In reply to: Here's a link quoting him saying it

he just said that yesterday as far as I know (I watched the same CNN coverage clip from my local news show yesterday afternoon that you are quoting here). He also said that he thinks ALL ads (against either candidate) should cease. Wonder if Kerry's groups will take to heart anymore than Bush's groups...highly doubt it. BUT at least Bush hasn't threatened legal action against radio or tv stations for carrying the ads. You would think that if the stories being told against Kerry were, in fact, lies, that the threat would be aimed toward those groups/people rather than the stations. It appears to me that the stronger point could be made against the groups/people actually defaming him, doncha think? And I haven't heard a word from Kerry denouncing any of their groups, which started on Bush's National Guard history long before the SwiftBoat people came to light. *** for tat doesn't always work....they can instead turn into real ***-biters. How long did Kerry think his groups would get away with the things they were saying about Bush before somebody on the other side started playing the game? From the minute Kerry threw his hat into the ring, the only issues being bantered around by the Rep side were Kerry's non-existing political record. It wasn't until Kerry pooh-poohed that record and leaned extremely heavily on his 'military' record that the crap hit the fan, and he has nobody to blame but himself for that exposure.

Bush is willing to accept the record....that doesn't mean the PEOPLE have to, and WE'RE the ones who count, Josh.

TONI

Collapse -
Re: Here's a link quoting him saying it...yes but

In reply to: Re: Here's a link quoting him saying it...yes but

Hi Toni:

I believe Kerry's complaint is based on his contention that the Bush people are covertly helping these ads get made.

I know you're not one of the unabashed when it comes to support for Bush. I'm just wondering how those who appear unable to acknowledge that Bush can be wrong about anything reconcile that with his statements re: Kerry.

Collapse -
Contention is a far cry from proof

In reply to: Re: Here's a link quoting him saying it...yes but

and the fact that Kerry's people think that they can be arrogant enough to threaten legal action against radio/tv stations to stop the ads rather than put pressure on the SOURCE is another smoke screen for him. If he wants to seriously hurt their credibility all he has to do is put everything out on the table, Josh. He's either got a crappy pair of deuces in his hand and he's bluffing blindly or he's got a royal flush. He quoted Bush about a week ago with "Bring It On"......as far as I'm concerned, Bush already did and now it's Kerry's turn and he better hope to hell he's not holding aces and eights.

TONI

Popular Forums

icon
Computer Newbies 10,686 discussions
icon
Computer Help 54,365 discussions
icon
Laptops 21,181 discussions
icon
Networking & Wireless 16,313 discussions
icon
Phones 17,137 discussions
icon
Security 31,287 discussions
icon
TVs & Home Theaters 22,101 discussions
icon
Windows 7 8,164 discussions
icon
Windows 10 2,657 discussions

GRAMMYS 2019

Here's Everything to Know About the 2019 Grammys

Find out how to watch the Grammy Awards if you don't have cable and more.