General discussion

Molly Ivins on Bush, better late than never.

http://www.progressive.org/nov03/ivin1103.html

I asked the question earlier on this forum, if people perceive that Clinton attracted more negative feelings than Bush does and was assured that "No, things are far worse now". It appears that I'm not alone in thinking that Bush has been extraordinarily lucky, though he certainly excites irritation in some quarters.

Rob Boyter

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Comments
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(NT) (NT) why do you worry your not an american
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Maybe not to you, but I am to me, and I have to try

to understand with what my country is becoming. So far I don't like it. I'm puzzled why you are so vehement on the issue since dual citizenship is neither new nor controversial any where except around you guys. By the way, neither you nor Evie is in charge of citizenship (thank God) so why don't you give it a rest.

Rob Boyter

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well hopefully

president Bush your buddy will see to the dual citizenshipGrin

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Fortunately you were kind enough to provide my response

in the context of the UN and the Red Cross. You can stick your anti-liberal, anti-moderate, anti-dual citizenship, "it's not your problem" attitudes where the sun is never seen. But please fold into sharp corners first.

Rob

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(NT) (NT) just remember to see your petrologist after:)
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Anti-moderate?

You are so far left you can't even see moderate!

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I'd settle for an Eisenhower moderate in the White House,

you know, somebody like Bill Clinton.

Tell you something else, George Bush is so far right he can't see moderate either. He can however see Pluto since he's in close orbit around it.

Rob Boyter

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yea bill clinton

only got impeached very enviable personHappy

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Coming from ...

... someone that labeled Mort Kondrake right wing, your words of "praise" for Clinton don't carry much.

Clinton only moderated so that he could get re-elected. He is far more moderate than his wife, but determining either of their core beliefs would be an exercise in futility.

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More useless Bush hating crap.

Jeez. Get a life.

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Got one thanks, but everybody needs a hobby and

worrying about my family in the US is mine.

Rob

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Oh, I thought your hobby was

full time Bush hating and quoting the lunatic left. I mean Molly Ivins? They don't come any more partisan or nutty or prefictable than that.

You can tell by reading the piece that even she doesn't believe it. "Deadline looming...must bash Bush..but..out of material...readers turned off...audience dwindling...must dredge up same old...crap and see if ...gullible fools buy it...one more time"

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Molly sez:

"Clinton-haters accused the man of murder, rape, drug-running, sexual harassment, financial chicanery, and official misconduct."

But at least half those were true, were they not? Be honest.

Did we see Clinton burned in effigy? Did anyone call him a Nazi or a war criminal or a racist or bigot? You can't compare the vitriol of the Clinton haters and the Bush haters. It's a whole different level, and so-called "responsible" leading figures are jumping in too. Of course that may because the Democratic Party has been abandoned by rational people anyway.

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(NT) (NT) Reagan was called stupid cowboy, too...Oh well :)
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No , Reagan WAS a stupid Cowboy Actor

I have great respect for cowboys, they do a dangerous and valuable job.

And about that stamp they're making to him, I hope its going to have Nancy on it to remind him how much the stamp costs.

Rob

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You are mistaken
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(NT) (NT) "Poor Bush is in way over his head..." :-) True true!
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Too late now, but 54% now disapprove...
Poll Shows Optimism About Iraq.
>> Adults were evenly divided on Bush's job performance in January, but now 54 percent disapprove and 45 percent approve. The number who think the country is headed down the wrong track increased from 51 percent to 58 percent in the past month.<<
BTW, I wonder who changed the headline? Earlier today, the headline and first paragraph were about Bush's poor job performance, with the Iraq part playing second fiddle as a "some consolation."

Meanwhile, more and more information about pre-9/11 warnings to the Bushies are now being declassified -- they were "bational security secrets" before. More like "Bush job security secrets," if you ask me!
For instance, Richard Clarke's al Qaeda memo released.
And, of course, Report: FAA Had 52 Pre-9/11 Warnings. I wonder if a majority still feel safer with Bush and his team of ostriches in charge?

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!
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seems to me no warnings pinpointed what

However, none of the warnings pinpointed what would happen on Sept. 11.


FAA spokeswoman Laura Brown on Thursday said the agency received intelligence from other agencies, which it passed on to airlines and airports.

But, she said, "We had no specific information about means or methods that would have enabled us to tailor any countermeasures."

Brown also said the FAA was in the process of tightening security at the time of the attacks.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=490255&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

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I beg to differ, Mark.

No, there wasn't specific intelligence saying "flights from Boston to be hijacked and flown into the World Trade Center on 9/11." But there was information from numerous sources about planned hijackings, and even a couple suggesting they might be flown into targets. That should have been enough to bring about the kind of security that came post-9/11. But instead, the airlines didn't want to lose the revenues from seats for sky marshalls, etc, etc. A typical example of favoiring business profits over consumer protection -- except in this case that pro-business bias cost thousands of lives and billions of dollars. Of course, that's happening now with things like drug prices -- it's just the deaths aren't highly visible or all at once.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Should have been?

Come on Dave, you, me, and most others would have been outraged at going through the security at airports now if it had been implemented before 9/11.

You've made mention more than once of how different security procedures have inconvenienced people. You've mentioned more than once how we're heading for a police state.

So why would you think people would have accepted more security (and possibly higher fares?) before 9/11? or some other large attack to beat the necessity into our heads?

JMO

Roger

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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so thats bushes fault?

seems to me you just said the airlines refused to have marshals which is it dave?

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Conveniently ignores ...

... that Linda Daschle was either high up at FAA and/or a lobbyist for the airlines during said time.

Evie Happy

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plus if you read in link i supplied

The commission report, written last August, said five security warnings mentioned al-Qaida's training for hijackings and two reports concerned suicide operations not connected to aviation. However, none of the warnings pinpointed what would happen on Sept. 11.

those were only 5 reports so there you go again dave try reading your links or get ones that work

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(NT) (NT) Your links go to error pages
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" If you still can't find the page your looking for.."

Illiteracy at ABC?

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A comment I heard on NPR

I only caught the end of it so I can not quote the name of the person who said it, but the comment was:
Republicans tend to elect stupid presidents with brilliant staffs. Democrats tend to elect brilliant presidents with stupid staffs.

Thinking back, I tend to agree.

BTW, I am a citizen and a vet.

Dan - a recount is pointless - Hardy

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True in the case of Carter and Clinton.

Not true in the cases of FDR, Truman, Kennedy, or Johnson. Though I speak about FDR and Truman only from reputation and reading.

The Republicans have had the better staffs since Reagan. Nixon's staff was no prize, although there were some stars.

Rob Boyter

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Many of the Presidents

were a joke played out in the daily newspaper. Remember Carter's brother urinating Billy Beer in public? Nixon's speeches and lies? Bill and Hillary's stains, sexual harassment, military blunders, lies, jail sentences, deaths, suicides, pardons, kin and arrogance that started BEFORE he/she was even elected? Gerald Ford tripping over his own feet? George Bush Senior barfing on the Japanese? Most likely the dirtiest rascal was Clinton. If you think about it, what is worse the Watergate break-in or all the stuff the Clinton's pulled.

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Watergate by far, because it was an assault

on a fair election process, much like that of George Bush's brother Jeb's stealing the 2000 election for him, and an assault on the Constitution and a fair judicial process. Frankly, the ever changing, ever expanding Whitewater Hearings were also anti-Constitutional if not Unconstitutional. The issue was the land deal, when that investigation into that found nothing the Special Prosecutors job was over. But then Unconstitutionality isn't new territory to the Republican extreme right, so on and on it went.

Rob Boyter

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