Speakeasy forum

General discussion

Mods, Is this being ignored or what???

by Glenda / May 21, 2006 6:12 AM PDT
Discussion is locked
You are posting a reply to: Mods, Is this being ignored or what???
The posting of advertisements, profanity, or personal attacks is prohibited. Please refer to our CNET Forums policies for details. All submitted content is subject to our Terms of Use.
Track this discussion and email me when there are updates

If you're asking for technical help, please be sure to include all your system info, including operating system, model number, and any other specifics related to the problem. Also please exercise your best judgment when posting in the forums--revealing personal information such as your e-mail address, telephone number, and address is not recommended.

You are reporting the following post: Mods, Is this being ignored or what???
This post has been flagged and will be reviewed by our staff. Thank you for helping us maintain CNET's great community.
Sorry, there was a problem flagging this post. Please try again now or at a later time.
If you believe this post is offensive or violates the CNET Forums' Usage policies, you can report it below (this will not automatically remove the post). Once reported, our moderators will be notified and the post will be reviewed.
Collapse -
the rules are the rules
by Mark5019 / May 21, 2006 6:28 AM PDT

seems plain to me english here no subtitles

Collapse -
Sorry. I took a break.
by Angeline Booher / May 21, 2006 6:47 AM PDT

I know of what you speak.

She used words like "nada", spelled Mexico with a J, "los" and a some other words that we know what they mean, like "amigo".

(I guessed on "egoista" because of the root.)

In my judgment, this did not violate Lee's directive. I think we all recall what prompted his edict.

I did not delete them because some of the replies to her were good. I left the response to J because Evie was correct about it, and I thought it should be seen.

That is the best definitive answer I can offer.

Angeline
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email
semods4@yahoo.com

Collapse -
Thank you Angeline:)
by Glenda / May 21, 2006 7:15 AM PDT
In reply to: Sorry. I took a break.

But since this person can speak English as shown in the other forums, maybe she should use English here too. No other mods on duty??? Tell them they better get to work!!! Wink

Collapse -
You probably guessed correctly about 'egoista' ...
by Bill Osler / May 21, 2006 7:22 AM PDT
In reply to: Sorry. I took a break.

I'm not sure I understand the distinctions between egoista and egotista, but they are both standard Spanish words referring to selfishness or attributes along that line.

The intermix of Spanish and English does not always follow the forms I would expect from somebody struggling with English grammar and syntax, but my Spanish isn't good enough to be sure. I wonder if some of the admixture of words is a result of either intense emotional involvement in the subject or else a literary device intended to emphasize sympathy for the illegals.

Collapse -
since the person in question
by Mark5019 / May 21, 2006 7:29 AM PDT

dosnt have a problem in other forums me tinks its a shame and should be told its english here or vamoose

Collapse -
I do not believe the characterization is correct ...
by Bill Osler / May 21, 2006 10:07 AM PDT
Collapse -
You may be right ...
by Evie / May 21, 2006 10:20 AM PDT

... but it is inconsistent at best. There are completely English and posts that make perfect sense, then ones that don't even use the proper Spanish words.

In any case, the "insultos" aimed at Mark are clear.

Evie Happy

Collapse -
Mark's tough enough to take it ...
by Bill Osler / May 21, 2006 10:22 AM PDT
In reply to: You may be right ...

Not to mention the fact that he has shown himself quite capable of holding up his own end of an insulting match. Oops! I guess I did mention it. Wink

Collapse -
Just because he's "tough enough"
by Evie / May 21, 2006 10:32 AM PDT

... doesn't mean someone should be given carte blanche to do it. Gabriela's "you need to comprender" post is just the first shot over the line. "Egoista" was definitely so. Yet, those remain, while my post re: this being English forum (per LEE) was pulled in that thread. It wouldn't have mattered who had been the target of the gibberish.

Evie Happy

Collapse -
Hopefully the Mods will address this situation ...
by Evie / May 21, 2006 8:46 AM PDT
In reply to: Sorry. I took a break.

... clearly the poster is using an offensive mixed dialog to target one member, when she clearly can speak perfect English in other CNet forums. People don't talk like that, period, no matter their native tongue. Also there was no violation of the TOS in my pulled post to Gabriela that this is an English speaking forum. Lee's post that time was pretty emphatic.

Evie Happy

Collapse -
I'm not sure the language is different here ...
by Bill Osler / May 21, 2006 10:04 AM PDT

Since several have reported that her language was standard English in the other fora I did a search for 'all posts'. I don't see any clear difference. She asked about purchasing some A/V equipment and stated she did not want to spend a lot of pesos. She used 'comprar' instead of purchase on at least one occasion. Et cetera. Many of the posts appear to be mostly English with random bits of Spanish vocabulary thrown in.

On reflection, my bias is that the mods should not take any action because I don't see this as a TOS violation. The mods, of course, get to make the final call on that.

OTOH, it is pretty clear that "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet" is a deliberate gesture in defiance of the TOS. It may also be a very lame attempt at a Dada-esque commentary on the forum but a TOS violation none-the-less.

Collapse -
dada?...nada...yada..
by jonah jones / May 21, 2006 1:09 PM PDT

'tongue in cheek translation'

is it dada?
no it isn't,
it's yada yada yada....


Wink

.

Collapse -
Re: ''...I don't see any clear difference.''
by MarciaB / May 22, 2006 12:36 AM PDT

I also did a search, Dr. Bill. The differences in language and grammar seemed quite noticeable to me.
--------------------------------------
For example:
This (Speakeasy Forum):
you have to comprender

to be free also mean to have something. los mejicanos and other people from latinoamerica have nothing. some have mucho others have nada. people who have nada are not free! most of mejicanos who come to usa have nada. thats why they come. they are not free mark! and you want big wall to stop them. i think that is very egoista.

Gabriela.

Posted by: Gabriela Taradellas (see profile) - 05/20/2006 3:42 PM


VS

This (Microsoft Office Forum):
Strange

Before I reformated the computer it was always sent at the moment I hit the sent button. Now when I hit it it goes to the outbox and I have to hit the send/recieve button for it to be sent.

Gabriela

Posted by: Gabriela Taradellas (see profile) - 02/27/2006 10:21 AM

-------------------------------------

In the other forums, she displays quite decent English, utilizes capitals, and can make complete sentences.

In my own opinion, I believe the broken English and use of more than an occasional Spanish word was done quite purposefully. As to what that purpose was ....? I suppose only Gabriela could answer that. I could only speculate, but I think the results were likely no surprise to her.

In regard to whether her posts had enough Spanish in them to create much confusion on the part of the readers? I don't think they did. I do not speak Spanish, but I understood what she was saying. What I found objectionable was how she went about her presentation. It was unnecessary, as can be seen by the comparison example above. The content of her posts may still have been disputed, but the credibility of the poster due to her choice in "how" she presented it decreased significantly for me.

.

Collapse -
Good responce Angeline.
by John Robie / May 22, 2006 12:37 AM PDT
In reply to: Sorry. I took a break.

It is apparent that 2 people don't care for your response and want another Mod's opinion, which Mods DK & Jonah gave below.

Collapse -
Germanic?
by James Denison / May 21, 2006 9:40 AM PDT

You might find something of that nature in the Germanic Lipsum. It's gibberish text for page formating. You didn't have any course in journalism or webpage setups?

==============
Uber achtung nutske oompaloomp pukein gewerkin kaputt. Nine sparkin handercloppen, mitz yodel haben nine dummkopf. Frau corkin, footzerstompen bar, kaputt waltz poopsie noodle undervear biergarten pretzel uber der haben. Lookinpeepers keepin ya zur, poopsie nutske der, bin hinder thinken lookinpeepers oompaloomp. Glockenspiel in kaboodle nine keepin verboten stein. Nine undervear haus flippin, bin poopsie frau, kaputt. Underbite heinee thinken noodle stein pretzel poopsie nicht handercloppen.

Collapse -
Cicero: Concerning the uses of good and evil
by Ziks511 / May 21, 2006 10:58 AM PDT

Except in the version quoted, it is gibberish used for blanking in possible text on a page layout. It is called Lipsum for short or Lorem ipsum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum

The original reads: Sed ut perspiciatis, unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium doloremque laudantium, totam rem aperiam eaque ipsa, quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt, explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem, quia voluptas sit, aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos, qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt, neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum, quia dolor sit, amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt, ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit, qui in ea voluptate velit esse, quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum, qui dolorem eum fugiat, quo voluptas nulla pariatur? At vero eos et accusamus et iusto odio dignissimos ducimus, qui blanditiis praesentium voluptatum deleniti atque corrupti, quos dolores et quas molestias excepturi sint, obcaecati cupiditate non provident, similique sunt in culpa, qui officia deserunt mollitia animi, id est laborum et dolorum fuga. Et harum quidem rerum facilis est et expedita distinctio. Nam libero tempore, *** soluta nobis est eligendi optio, cumque nihil impedit, quo minus id, quod maxime placeat, facere possimus, omnis voluptas assumenda est, omnis dolor repellendus. Temporibus autem quibusdam et aut officiis debitis aut rerum necessitatibus saepe eveniet, ut et voluptates repudiandae sint et molestiae non recusandae. Itaque earum rerum hic tenetur a sapiente delectus, ut aut reiciendis voluptatibus maiores alias consequatur aut perferendis doloribus asperiores repellat.

Even though the original looks like Latin, you will notice that there are the odd dropped letters as well skips etc. Sorry I couldn't highlight all the bits used for the gibberish it'd take far too long.

Reading the original there were enough words either not actual Latin or connections of letters like adipisicing that arent found in Latin. "ing" is a Germanic ending or word all on its own in German. I lived for a while not far near Ingatestone (Pronounced Ing at stone, and originally spelt Ing atte stone meaning surprisingly Ing (probably the name or short form of the Tribe) who lived at the stone in question)

Translation of the original per Wikipedia (which I quote partly because that's where I located lorem (not a word in Latin) ipsum: H. Rackham's 1914 translation:

"Nor again is there anyone who loves or pursues or desires to obtain pain of itself, because it is pain, but because occasionally circumstances occur in which toil and pain can procure him some great pleasure. To take a trivial example, which of us ever undertakes laborious physical exercise, except to obtain some advantage from it? But who has any right to find fault with a man who chooses to enjoy a pleasure that has no annoying consequences, or one who avoids a pain that produces no resultant pleasure?"

Thanks for anything remotely Latinate, James

Rob

Collapse -
What is the price of allowing non-English to appear
by Ziks511 / May 21, 2006 11:19 AM PDT

on the Forum? Few of the readers would understand what is being said, and there is always the complaint button "Report offensive post" to deal with those.

Why turn the Mods into the language police when they have more than enough work just reading all the posts in English? If somebody wants to post what is effectively gibberish for the rest of us, and which may provide extremely empty entertainment for the poster.

Speaking a language other than English hurts no one, and as I have discovered over the course of my life provides an additional seasoning. Because I have a moustache and because my wife's hospital is near the Polish area of Toronto, consequently I am generally addressed first in Polish when I go into the Delis and Bakeries there. And because my wife also fits the Polish genotype, blonde, now white, hair and perhaps a little overweight, they address her in Polish too. It's fun, not annoying, and one gets to joke with the staff and try new foods and things. What's more we get our Jaffa cakes (we acquired the addiction in England, its a soft biscuit with a thin layer of orange jelly covered in dark chocolate) quite cheaply. They are otherwise unobtainable here.

Rob

Collapse -
well as some of us dont speak any thing
by Mark5019 / May 21, 2006 11:26 AM PDT

but english, and this is an english forum
as per lee its english not any thing else unless they provide a translation.
its bad enough were being invaded and we have to have if you want to hear spanish press 2
enoughs enough.
if they want to speak another language they can find it else ware.so enough of this bs its english or the highway!

Actually you left off the most definitive one ...

... the one by Lee that was linked to in one of your links

http://reviews.cnet.com/5208-6130-0.html?forumID=50&threadID=30164&messageID=344313&tag=

I'm going to make this a rule today...

And I'm NOT going to update the TOS, for it obvious that these forums are presented in American English, not codes or any other languages.

It shall be known from here going forward, that any post whether it be an article, phrase, quote, etc., that is posted in a foreign language or code--as a common courtesy to all the members of these forums that all foreign content shall be translated or referenced accurately by the owner of the post.

Any post in the forums that are not in English without accurate translation or reference will be reviewed and appropriate actions will be taken.

We are here to learn, but not to assume or to guess about foreign content. It makes the job difficult for our moderator to know when a post in a foreign language is offensive or not. And since these forums are hosted in English, the content of post should be in English, so that the majority of our readers can get a fair understanding of what has been posted. So please be considerate to other members in the forums when posting your messages.

Thank you.
-Lee
CNET Communit
and if you keep clicking report offensive may just be the way you want it to close se rob

Collapse -
I'm not disputing that it's an English speaking forum
by Ziks511 / May 21, 2006 7:08 PM PDT

I just don't see the point of banning everything as a solution. That's the difference between conservatives, who feel most comfortable when everything that is not forbidden is compulsory and vice versa, as opposed to liberals, like those who founded the United States, who think "that government governs best which governs least". The more rules you create the more you have to regulate, it becomes a full time job. If you ignore people who sail off into foreign languages like me, you lose nothing, the odds are nobody else understands or more to the point cares what they are saying unless they provide a translation. Personally I find it makes things more interesting when I come across something I have to work out or dig up a dictionary for, but that's just how I was brought up. He who dies knowing the most languages, wins.

There is a pseudo-Latin translation floating around that everybody knows for "Don't let the B@$t@rds grind you down". The proper translation bears no resemblance to that, but the pseudo translation is comprehensible to English speakers.

Properly a person of illegitimate birth is "Nothus" second declension masculine, but it needs to be plural and accusative because it is the object of the sentence. "Don't let" is an imperative which should be 2nd person plural present imperative of "to permit" which is concedo, concedere, concedi, concedum, (all 4 principal parts of the verb are needed to figure out what future tenses and other peculiarities may be) with "Non" stuck somewhere in the sentence to make it a negative. Latin word order is extremely free, though the verb usually comes last in the sentence if you're going for comprehensibility as opposed to style. "To grind" down is either molere which really means "grind" as in wheat in a mill (mill comes from the Latin molere) or "demolere" which is "to grind down" and is where we get the word demolish from.

So, "Non nothos demolere concedite" is about how it comes out. "Non demolere nothos concedite" is also acceptable as are 3 or 4 other variations including the reverse "Concedite non nothos demolere" which is my personal choice. You will notice that our word concede comes from "concedere".

Just to point out the twisted childhood I had, I could recite us i (long eeee) o um e (short e like eh) o / i orum is os i is in the first grade. Those are the endings singular and plural for the second declension nouns. I didn't know any Latin, but I knew the endings. Unfortunately none of the other declensions (5 of them) is amenable to that sort of learning.

As I once pointed out before, through the turn of the century to the 20th century, and all the way up to the 1940's and later, unilingual areas were common in cities in the United States. My favorite Republican Fiorello Laguardia was fluent in about 9 or more different European languages, and debated opponents in them when it could make a difference, he walloped the jewish Democratic candidate for Mayor by debating him in Yiddish. Virtually nobody knew he was half Jewish and Yiddish was quite literally his mother tongue as was Polish I believe.

The trouble with this world is that certain elements want to stamp out all diversity, but a garden made up of one kind and color of flower is pretty dull after the first look.

If regulation is needed, it is needed where the most harm can result. That's why there are Consumer Protecion laws, and the SEC (which frankly doesn't do it's job very well) and the NTSB and the FAA. The reason businesses should be regulated is because they can cause more harm to more people than an individual can. The reason regulating individuals with certain obvious exceptions like most of the current criminal statutes like theft and murder is a waste of time is that you'd have a police state either with as many police as citizens, or, like East Germany with everybody informing on everybody else.

Even the worst mass murderer can be out-done in a few seconds by a bridge collapse or a mine disaster or even the collapse of a walkway in a hotel because of poor architecture, bad engineering and crappy construction. That's why you keep your eyes on the big things, like Halliburton, cause they can rob you blind and bury the evidence quicker than you can figure out you've been overcharged.

And Mark, I'm not going to click Offensive Post if somebody posts something in another language. First I'll ask him or her for a translation, second I'll canvass my friends to see if one of them understands what has been posted, and third I'll take a pass on understanding, because I don't care if somebody posts in another language. If they want me to understand it, they'll tell me what it means. But to create a tempest in a tea cup like this seems way out of proportion to the exceedingly rare posts we get here containing other languages.

You have transferred your ire over an external issue accomodating Spanish speakers on the telephone, or illegal immigrants or some other thing to the internal workings of SE and it's a waste of time and effort, because this is not where the problem is. Take a muscle relaxant or two as I am about to do, lie down on a good thick rug on the floor with pillows under your knees and just relax. You'll feel better. Pretend you're sinking through the floor, that's real relaxation.

I have money earmarked from my so-far non-existent lottery winnings for you to come up here for a month or two and attend Hamilton Hall's Back Institute. I'll probably be joining you for a period of time because I need to strengthen and loosen up my back too. If you want snow, we can make it in the winter, if you want a somewhat less muggy summer we can accomodate that too. There's actually an off chance we may get on well together because judging from your posts we're very similar in everything but politics. That one we're going to have to avoid. Oh, and one bit of bad news, up here its not Spanish, its French that you have to avoid on the phone.

Rob

Collapse -
Linquistic Seatbelt
by James Denison / May 21, 2006 7:25 PM PDT

Don't drive around the internet without one. Get a ticket. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Trivial Non-pursuit. The dumbing down of America. "Vine, Vide, Vice", Julius Caesar or was that Kaiser Willy Boy, previously Wilhelm? Caesar vs Kaiser, is there really a difference? Hmm, from same root? Goodbye Rudyard Kipling, goodbye Robert Burns and no more singing of "Auld Lang Syne". It was fun while it lasted. The verbal gerbils are on the loose, and nothing is safe anymore.

Collapse -
you forgot
by jonah jones / May 21, 2006 7:58 PM PDT

Non Illegitimati Carborundum

Wink


.

Collapse -
Bunk
by Evie / May 21, 2006 11:15 PM PDT

It's not about banning or about diversity. It's about Lee's directive and the fact that the vast majority of members don't come here to learn broken Spanglish.

Collapse -
like the boss lee koos says
by Mark5019 / May 21, 2006 11:24 PM PDT

I'm going to make this a rule today...
And I'm NOT going to update the TOS, for it obvious that these forums are presented in American English, not codes or any other languages.

It shall be known from here going forward, that any post whether it be an article, phrase, quote, etc., that is posted in a foreign language or code--as a common courtesy to all the members of these forums that all foreign content shall be translated or referenced accurately by the owner of the post.

Any post in the forums that are not in English without accurate translation or reference will be reviewed and appropriate actions will be taken.

We are here to learn, but not to assume or to guess about foreign content. It makes the job difficult for our moderator to know when a post in a foreign language is offensive or not. And since these forums are hosted in English, the content of post should be in English, so that the majority of our readers can get a fair understanding of what has been posted. So please be considerate to other members in the forums when posting your messages.

Thank you.
-Lee
CNET Community

take a releaxer your self rob
this is b4 the invasion

its explicit on the language cabish?

Collapse -
Reasoning is from past problems here Rob,
by Cindi Haynes / May 22, 2006 3:37 AM PDT

Which were from before you became a member. There were many instances of people making derogatory and mean comments/insults to members in different languages. Since the Mods are not translators, it was often missed until someone got curious, or a flame war ensued.

It was then that Lee gave the English-only directive, unless a translation was provided, because the Mods have their hands full as it is.

Cindi

Collapse -
Language police
by Evie / May 21, 2006 11:29 AM PDT
I'm going to make this a rule today...

And I'm NOT going to update the TOS, for it obvious that these forums are presented in American English, not codes or any other languages.

It shall be known from here going forward, that any post whether it be an article, phrase, quote, etc., that is posted in a foreign language or code--as a common courtesy to all the members of these forums that all foreign content shall be translated or referenced accurately by the owner of the post.

Any post in the forums that are not in English without accurate translation or reference will be reviewed and appropriate actions will be taken.

We are here to learn, but not to assume or to guess about foreign content. It makes the job difficult for our moderator to know when a post in a foreign language is offensive or not. And since these forums are hosted in English, the content of post should be in English, so that the majority of our readers can get a fair understanding of what has been posted. So please be considerate to other members in the forums when posting your messages.

Thank you.
-Lee
CNET Community
Collapse -
To me the issue is understandability, Evie.
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / May 21, 2006 9:14 PM PDT
In reply to: Language police

not a punitive attempt to scrub out any trace of foreign languages on the forums, as some here seem to be interpreting it. After all, he says "will be reviewed and appropriate action taken," not "will be summarily removed!" I'm sure this issue will be discussed among Moderators and with Mac and Lee in the next couple of days -- but such discussions are difficult late on Sundays!

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

Collapse -
So you understood ...
by Evie / May 21, 2006 11:18 PM PDT

... "egoista" ...

Keep in mind, there's no reason to presume the smatterings of Spanish words are any more understandable to many here than any other language.

Collapse -
(NT) (NT) Is it ENGLISH ONLY or not? Yes or no please.
by C1ay / May 22, 2006 12:41 AM PDT
Collapse -
It has to be Yes and No
by Angeline Booher / May 22, 2006 12:56 AM PDT

If you remember, this all came about when there were entire posts and foreign phrases in the text that were not in a foreign language not generally familiar to the English speaking.

So Lee said that when these are used, there must be a translation provided. As they are, as I said, not familair to most, it is unknown what they say-could be insults.

So, they can be used when a translation is provided.

As we do have moderators from several foreign countries, there is a good chance that if the translation is not accurate, it will come to light.

Angeline
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email
semods4@yahoo.com

Collapse -
(NT) (NT) So basically the Mods ARE translators now.
by Evie / May 22, 2006 1:33 AM PDT
Popular Forums
icon
Computer Newbies 10,686 discussions
icon
Computer Help 54,365 discussions
icon
Laptops 21,181 discussions
icon
Networking & Wireless 16,313 discussions
icon
Phones 17,137 discussions
icon
Security 31,287 discussions
icon
TVs & Home Theaters 22,101 discussions
icon
Windows 7 8,164 discussions
icon
Windows 10 2,657 discussions

CNET FORUMS TOP DISCUSSION

Help, my PC with Windows 10 won't shut down properly

Since upgrading to Windows 10 my computer won't shut down properly. I use the menu button shutdown and the screen goes blank, but the system does not fully shut down. The only way to get it to shut down is to hold the physical power button down till it shuts down. Any suggestions?