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General discussion

Mitch and the diner

Oct 22, 2018 1:27AM PDT

Discussion is locked

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People who throw tantrums
Oct 22, 2018 2:12AM PDT

should not prevail. Angry mobs cannot be permitted to intimidate our lawmakers. We need discussion and well reasoned thoughts that stimulate our brains rather than adrenaline attacks that turn us into animals (sorry to insult the animals here).

BTW, I don't agree with your premise. Such remarks poison the opportunity for good dialog.

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Premise
Oct 22, 2018 11:04AM PDT

Do you mean baked in?

If so change the wording a little to 'planned for'.

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Nope...that's not it
Oct 22, 2018 11:30AM PDT

It was the first part of the same sentence. I don't think it's wise to make any presumption as to for whom the tax cuts were meant. IMO, doing such a thing takes away from the question you asked and may divert the entire conversation. Unless it's been stated and/or generally understood that the tax cuts were meant only or primarily for wealthy individuals, the interjection of that verbiage won't be healthy for honest conversation. I, for one, don't consider it to be a "given" though I answered your question as best I was able.

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Tax cut
Oct 22, 2018 12:06PM PDT

The repubs had all the numbers right in front of them.
They could see exactly who would benefit from this.
They could not sell it as a tax cut for the wealthy so they labeled it as a tax cut for the middle class.
Yes some middle class who have all the ducks line up will see a tax reduction.
The majority won't see enough to be noticeable.

Assuming your middle class run the numbers on your earnings and see what you get.

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Let's talk about tax cuts for the wealthy
Oct 22, 2018 12:47PM PDT

and I'm not talking about INDIVIDUALS, but rather COMPANIES since they have 'benefitted' the most. Tax cuts or breaks for businesses have been around for decades....NY (run by Dems BTW) was placing ads on tv during the presidential campaign begging companies to relocate or start up in that State and they would be granted a ten year deferment on their State and Local taxes if they did. Do you agree that THOSE 'cuts' are beneficial to the middle class since JOBS would be created? Do you also agree that by keeping the interest rate at ZERO for 8 years the only ones who actually benefitted from THAT were the 'wealthy' and that they never reinvested in their businesses to actually HIRE people but rather bought back all their stock?

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Tax cuts
Oct 23, 2018 1:20AM PDT

Giving a company a tax break if they will create jobs is a plus for the economy.
Giving a company a tax break only to have the company use the money to buy back it's stock does not do much for the economy.
Think Ryan's tax cut bill.

Zero interest rates was an attempt to get the economy moving.
The wealthy used it as a tool to buy stocks or other stuff and make money.
That did not do much for the economy.

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Annnnnddddd.....you JUST described
Oct 23, 2018 4:31AM PDT

EXACTLY what BO did with the Wall Street BAILOUTS and $85B per month pumped into it. The tax breaks that GWB put into place EXPIRED in 2010 and BO KEPT dumping money making HIS cronies rich and allowing them to leave the country en mass (think GE whose CEO was in BO's administration as a JOBS CZAR) and buy back their stock instead of creating jobs.

Get your argument facts straight, Bob....you keep showing us how LITTLE you REALLY know. Ryan's tax bill WASN'T involved in ANY of what was going on.

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Ryan's tax bill
Oct 23, 2018 8:27AM PDT

I'm talking about today.
You keep wanting to go back in time and carp about BO.
What do you think corps did with the big reduction in tax rates from Ryan?
Hint...buy back their stock and make the stock holders richer.
Hint/hint....stock holders are in general the wealthy.
Then the fed and tariffs jumped in and started muddying up the water.

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I'M the one who told YOU about
Oct 23, 2018 10:11AM PDT

what BO's bailout did with buying back their stocks, Bob. That ISN'T what happened with the tax cuts that Trump signed. Businesses started expanding and hiring people again because they could afford to finally.

Show me where the tariffs have HURT businesses....we have a new trade deal with Mexico and Canada that have BENEFITED workers and farmers in the USA. You keep proving your ignorance about business and how things REALLY work.

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Show me where
Oct 23, 2018 8:28PM PDT

Start with soy farmers.

Nafta2....has anything been signed?
If it does get signed and it levels the playing field that's good.
I have no problem with adjusting 50yr old tariffs for modern times.

Your still living in the past and carping about BO.
It was different economic times.

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Different economic times....agreed
Oct 24, 2018 3:24AM PDT

However, the Great Depression was much worse and it was completely reversed within five years. BO continued to make it worse and more than doubled the National Debt DELIBERATELY to pay for HIS agenda items rather than actually HELP the country....more debt than ALL former presidents COMBINED. You want to give him CREDIT for the 'turnaround', but I haven't heard you BLAME him for CREATING MORE economic chaos and doing it deliberately.

BO ISN'T in the PAST, Bob....Not while he's STILL out there bragging about 'remember who started the recovery' lies.

The USMCA has been agreed to and signed. And commitments for soy purchases from SK and other countries are in place and happening already. The fact that you have to even ASK about it confirms how little you REALLY know about what's going on because you would have already known it IF your liberal media outlets you rely on for information were even willing to report it. Start doing your homework BEFORE you complain.

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Signed?
Oct 24, 2018 10:36AM PDT

It has not gone through congress yet.

Soy.
Do these soy purchases from other countries come close to what China was buying?
Looks like the answer is NO.
So the net result is less soy sales.

I gave BO credit for stopping the downward direction of the economy.
No more no less.
I said nothing about the means or any of his other agenda items.

It's enough that you find it necessary to inject your anti-BO rants into every thread on the forum.

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(NT) There is no NAFTA 2
Oct 24, 2018 12:38PM PDT
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Fine....make it nafta 2.0
Oct 24, 2018 1:56PM PDT

If that floats your boat.

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make it USMC or just USM for now.
Oct 24, 2018 9:53PM PDT
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I'm having some difficulty understanding you last sentence
Oct 22, 2018 1:43PM PDT

Did you mean "your" or should I read it as "you are" (aka "you're"). If you are asking me for my personal situation, I am retired rather than employed. I receive SS and also have some income from an IRA that, by rule, I must withdraw some amount every year. I pay taxes on that amount and it does affect what I pay on the SS. I won't know if there will be an appreciable difference in my taxes until after I file next year as that's when I'll know the impact better. In fact, I suspect few will know until then so there's no use even arguing it now. But, because what I have to live on is relatively fixed, my interest must be in the health of the overall economy. This means I need to hope that people have jobs until it's their turn to be in my position.

Those who are wealthy add plenty to that health as their discretionary income tends to be invested rather locked up in a closet somewhere. Those investments are what keep businesses alive and prosperous. Government doesn't do that. It spends the money of those who are actually productive citizens. Those who aspire to be productive should, IMO, be incentivised to do so rather than be discouraged due to an excessive tax burden.

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Income
Oct 23, 2018 1:42AM PDT

Since you have a fairly fixed income you should be able to apply what's in Ryan's tax cut bill and get a rough idea of the outcome.

In my case the pieces of the tax cut that apply to me will not make much of difference.
Yes I might see a cut of a few hundred bucks and some would say well that's a middle class tax cut.
I can't say it's not but the bulk of that repub tax bill went upscale.

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Disorderly Conduct
Oct 23, 2018 5:23AM PDT

They need to be jailed or flogged, but we don't do the latter anymore, but some will not stop this type of conducts unless they feel the sting in their flesh it seems. At the very least they should be charged with disorderly conduct and spend a week or report on weekends for a few times to teach them we as a society will NOT put up with it any longer. Just because it's politically driven shouldn't absolve them of disorderly conduct any more than someone engaged in such activity for other reasons.

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According to the LIAR
Oct 23, 2018 10:13AM PDT

the other day, civility will only happen when Dems are back in control......'blackmail'???? Give us back what we want and should have or this will just keep going until you surrender to us.

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We've already had this discussion
Oct 22, 2018 3:28AM PDT

about SS 'cuts'.....They just announced the largest COLA INCREASE for SS recipients in over 12 years (BO refused ANY increase for the first two years of HIS administration in order to pay for his crap arsed Stimulus program and stupid crap like Cash for Clunkers and nobody said a word about THAT). The increase announced doesn't sound like a 'cut' to any rational thinker, Bob.

I'm suspecting the 'cuts' will come from those who were made eligible under BO's new guidelines that shouldn't have been able to get on the programs (SS, SS Disability, and Medicare) in the first place that cost taxpayers trillions of extra freebies. But, as I stated before, you can't jump the gun and complain until you hear the actual plan. You say 'entitlement cuts were baked in'....how many of those people described do YOU believe were actually entitled to them since most didn't apply for any of those benefits until AFTER they had had their expanded 99 WEEKS of unemployment benefits run out, when they were ONLY supposed to get 26 weeks in the first place and then try and find a job?

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More made up stuff?
Oct 22, 2018 11:22AM PDT

I said nothing about SS cola being a SS cut.
Typical Toni post....a rant.

Mitch has not said a thing about what he wants to cut in detail.
He tossed it out as a broad statement.
So until he puts out some details what's to get excited about?

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I didn't make up anything
Oct 22, 2018 11:47AM PDT

And I never said you were talking about SS COLA as a cut. What you SAID was "When the repubs passed their tax cut for the wealthy entitlement cuts where baked in.  And the topic link was about Social Security CUTS.  How could Social Security be CUT when they just passed the largest COLA INCREASE in over 12 years, Bob?  

My 'rant' was to give you FACTS that you speculated incorrectly about.  What I have suggested is that perhaps the actual SS CUTS will come by throwing people OUT of the program who should have never been in it to begin with...….

And asked how you feel about that possibility since it will save trillions of dollars in actual cash and Medicare benefits when you combine the two things.

As for your statement TWICE now about 'not getting excited'....why post that topic and link IF YOU AREN'T ALREADY and making the 'accusation' that it's 'baked in' when you obviously admit YOU KNOW NOTHING?

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Baked in
Oct 23, 2018 2:41AM PDT

It's baked in to the repub's head.
Now Mitch is talking about it.
Nothing in the tax cut bill mentioned entitlement cuts.
When Mitch gets specific about what he is talking about then we get a better picture.
I'm not excited about this at all but you sure seem to be and it's always about something BO did.

Those people in the diner should not have attacked Mitch.
Perhaps Mitch is talking about your wish list.

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And still no comment about
Oct 23, 2018 4:34AM PDT

what I stated would actually make SS and Medicare solvent again by making the cuts I mentioned. I'm hoping that that is what Mitch is talking about.....what about you?

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(NT) I'll wait and see what Mitch is talking about.
Oct 23, 2018 8:31AM PDT
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And in the meantime, you will
Oct 23, 2018 10:18AM PDT

continue with your barrage of innuendo, speculation, and guesses as to what it all means in YOUR version....all in disparaging tones.....which is what liberals do all the time. They, and you, make wild statements about what WILL or COULD happen without anything to back them up, just as they do with every election or nomination that Republicans offer. Or they state ahead of time that they will protest, filibuster, or veto anything Reps offer when they don't even know what any of it will be yet.

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Try to stay focused
Oct 23, 2018 9:06PM PDT

We are talking about Mitch and the diner and entitlement cuts.

What happened to Mitch should not have happened.

Now here you are with another anti-dem rant.

I comment about the Don and the way our tax cut bill was skewed.

I don't think I have said anything negative about the repubs in general.

What congress types do is mostly just political fighting and I don't pay much attention to it.

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So you don't think the pol DEMS are
Oct 24, 2018 3:28AM PDT

out of their collective minds and refusing to vote for ANYTHING Reps present, even when they were ALL IN for the SAME things PRIOR to 2016? Take a look at the Congressional VOTING records of those in office since Trump was inaugurated, and you'll have the answer.

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The top priority
Oct 24, 2018 10:58AM PDT

In congress now is don't let the other side of the aisle look good.
I expect it and don't get upset about it.
If the shoe was on the other foot I would expect the repubs to be doing the same.
It's a crummy way to run a country.

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The shoe WAS on the other foot
Oct 25, 2018 2:33AM PDT

and look at the voting track record of Republicans FOR many of the Dem bills AND nominations by BO passed.....now compare the Dems' voting records since Trump became president. Two years later and he STILL hasn't gotten his entire cabinet to committee for votes yet. Stop your constant crap, Bob....you just keep parroting liberal garbage and prove you know NOTHING.