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Michael Ware with enemy sniper team

by Dragon / October 19, 2006 11:19 AM PDT

I was listening to Savage for a few minutes, this afternoon. He played a clip of a CNN reporter in Iraq with the enemy, giving a blow by blow account of them shooting an American soldier.

Savage was pretty disgusted with it, suggesting that as far as he was concerned, it was conpiracy to murder. He said if it had been during WWII, Patton, himself would've probably gone to London and pistol whipped the guy.

He went on to suggest that the leadership of this country would do nothing about it. I, for one, am inclined to agree that this isn't something I'm willing to ignore. And I do wonder if what this reporter did would be an accomplice to murder.

From what I had read -- I just googled the guy and read a few words here and there -- I got the impression Ware was against the war. I think you can carry free speech so far, then we have to draw the line.

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Definately right about one thing I've heard
by Steven Haninger / October 19, 2006 11:34 AM PDT

our solders comment on is that they don't always know the face of the enemy. Obviously some aren't even part of that world but, rather, our own.

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(NT) (NT) isnt the media great
by Mark5019 / October 19, 2006 11:36 AM PDT
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CNN Asks for Comments on Jihadi Death Porn Video
by marinetbryant / October 19, 2006 5:31 PM PDT
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None of what has been written here on this issue is accurate
by Ziks511 / October 22, 2006 6:54 AM PDT

Michael Ware was neither with the sniper team, nor present at the time of the killing. He had nothing to do with the decision to air the tape which was sent to him in response to his list of questions submitted through intermediaries to Ibrahim Al Shamarri who is a leader of a terrorist group, Islamic Army, in Iraq. He forwarded the tape to CNN. The decision to air the tape and the responsibility for it was taken in Atlanta at CNN headquarters after hours of debate. It was driven by what I have repeatedly pointed out is "the need to fill in air time and attract an audience", and the constant panic and doom laden tone of CNN, which is equally happy to air anything the Administration wants to say without consideration or reflection.

http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=114&sid=949057

"Baghdad correspondent Michael Ware had been in contact through intermediaries with Ibrahim al-Shammari, a leader for the rebel group Islamic Army. Ware had sent al-Shammari a series of questions about the insurgency in Iraq, Doss explained.

"In reply, al-Shammari sent two tapes. One reportedly showed him, with face concealed, responding to the questions. The other showed the sniper incidents, seemingly taken by the insurgents themselves, CNN said.

"CNN understood that some critics might find that the tape had public relations benefits for the insurgency, Doss wrote.

" "We also understood that this kind of footage is upsetting and disturbing for many viewers," he said. "But after getting beyond the emotional debate, we concluded the tape meets our criteria for newsworthiness."

"The decision was subject to "hours of intense editorial debate" at CNN's highest levels, he said.

"Doss said he had already received several angry responses from viewers of Wednesday's five-minute report, some wondering whether CNN was helping the enemy and others concerned that the tape was inappropriate for young viewers who may have happened upon it.

" "Whether or not you agree with us in this case, our goal, as always, is to present the unvarnished truth as best we can," Doss said."

Patton, since everyone seems to have forgotten was demoted, stripped of command, pulled out of battle and sent back to England for slapping a soldier who's nerve had broken in battle. It was considered by his peers, that is by other American generals, to have been an inexcusable lapse of judgement, self-control, and military decency. He was required to make a public apology to the entirety of that soldier's division. He sat on his *** for nearly 6 months before being given a new command, subordinate to Omar Bradley, who had formerly been subordinate to him, and who didn't really want him, but was forced to accept him by Eisenhower. He was a louse, but he was our louse, and he could handle armor like nobody else. Later after VE Day he also displayed a penchant for appointing former Nazis right back into their wartime jobs and was due to be relieved of command and sent back to the US for that little vagary but he was killed in a car accident before that could happen.

If WW2 had been the same sort of war as Iraq, there would have been correspondents covering the German side of the conflict, and broadcasting the German and view of things. American correspondents did that very thing from Berlin and Tokyo from September of 1939 to December 1941, much to the dismay of the Allies: Britain, France, China and eventually Russia. Had Japan not attacked the US it is debatable whether the US would ever have joined the conflict, but it would have continued broadcasting German claims, and German film footage as they had for 2 and 1/4 years before Pearl Harbor.

That wasn't unpatriotic, it was business. And what goes on on CNN and CBS and ABC and Fox News and all the others is also just business. You guys all claim that unfettered Capitalism is the greatest good there is. Well you've got it in the news business, stop snivelling. If it attracts an audience, even an audience that is outraged by it, then it will be broadcast. Why else are there 24 hour a day porn channels in George Bush's Born Again religious America? BTW that's not anti-American, it's just pointing out the difference between what the American people say they believe, and what they actually do.

Rob

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(NT) (NT) spoken like a true foreigner
by Mark5019 / October 22, 2006 7:09 AM PDT
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To the sovereign state of Mark 5019 I am and will always be
by Ziks511 / October 22, 2006 12:01 PM PDT

a foreigner. Frankly most of what I read at SE sounds like news from a foreign land to me; it certainly isn't from the United States I grew up in. There is an odour of brimstone and the sound of Thomas Hobbes (not an American) speaking about life being "nasty, brutish and short" about so much on this forum that I will happily remain a foreigner to you and your political co-religionists.

Rob

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(NT) (NT) ty for showing us that im right
by Mark5019 / October 22, 2006 12:17 PM PDT
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I agree
by Dragon / October 22, 2006 2:07 PM PDT

It doesn't sound like the news I heard when I was growing up. Today, it sounds more like people who want us to be more like Europe -- more 'togetherness-minded', (whether it's good for us or not...). It is often based upon the innocent, but wrong-headed idealistic idea that we are all the same and that we should be more cooperative and open to foreign views...that we should all live under international law, with the Supreme Court subserviant to it. If only we were globalists, everything would be OK. Clinton was a good example of that. His opinion was that the United Nations charter was the greatest document in human history -- not the Declaration of Independance, not the Constitution of the United States of America. (I hasten to add, I'm not one who hated the man, I just think he was misdirected. He is a good example of why intelligence, in and of itself, is not necesarily a good thing, yet it was praised by his admirers.)

But, back to the news. I had read some aspiring journalists were asked why they wanted to pursue such a course. Answers? "Because I want to change the world." Is it not true that journalism has to do with pursuit of fact, which stated plainly, can inform the public? But these days, it seems the goal is to spin the news with the hope that we will be persuaded. Others, such as Bernard Goldberg, believes there is in fact liberal bias, but that it is not conscious. Whatever the goal or intent -- conscious or unconscious -- the result is the same. I mentioned in another note how some newsmen were faking the news, by standing in front of a bluescreen or by asking the natives of the country to re-enact something. It makes you wonder at times what the real news is.

Time to hit the sack.:)

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Since you replied to my post
by Steven Haninger / October 22, 2006 7:55 AM PDT

can you say you have really heard anything like ''You guys all claim that unfettered Capitalism is the greatest good there is.'' this remark come from me? Don't think so....and you won't. You will, however, hear gripes from me and on a regular basis about media reporting. It won't be mostly politically based. I believe it's enough for the media to report facts without trying to bend the emotions of readers in a particular direction or to the greatest degree possible. Give the reader some credit for having a brain and the common sense to come up with their own conclusions...if their are any to made. As for the topic here, I think it would be enough to know that such videos are being made and for what purpose....one of which is for recruiting. One of those purposes is probably to affect the American resolve by ''recruiting'' it's citizens to pressure it's leaders into backing down. The US has used similar techniques and, I believe, even been criticized for it...such as ''buying'' media time in Iraq. In the US, our own media gives that time for free. Looks to me like they've given plenty to the Iraqi insurgency. This is real warfare here and the media is an important weapon. But, in the US, they are not government controlled. Their part is what they volunteer. They don't have to choose sides. But, if they do, they get to wear a target as does any other soldier. Sad

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(NT) (NT) Five Stars *****
by Dragon / October 22, 2006 12:51 PM PDT
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From the always despicable America haters at CNN:
by marinetbryant / October 19, 2006 5:43 PM PDT

(CNN) -- Chilling scenes from a videotape made by insurgents show the work of snipers in Iraq, targeting and killing American troops, taking them down with a single bullet from a high-powered rifle.


http://www.sweetness-light.com/

Tom

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That's right, Tom, pretend all is well,
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / October 19, 2006 11:13 PM PDT

even as our generals admit the plan for Baghdad is not working, and is "disheartening" to the troops. In fact, troops are increasingly saying they don't know why they're there, and that they're not helping the situation (note that the link above is to the well-known Amewrica-hating "Navy times" Web site!). Supporting the troops does not mean blindly following the leaders and policies throwing their lives away. The sad reality is that the Iraqi government we support is part of the problem, because it's part of the sectarian strife on the Sh'ia side; the rate of deterioration is accelerating: Shiite militia takes over Iraqi city. We're in the middle of a civil war, being targeted by both sides. It's time to give up on the ill-advised Iraqi adventure for the failure it's always been, and move substantial resources back to Afghanistan, where we still have a chance of stopping a disaster of major proportions -- the Taliban/Al Qaeda taking Afghanistan and using it as a base to take Pakistan and its nukes.

Meanwhile, note from your own link that the tape was made by insurgents, not CNN cameramen. A similar (or perhaps the same) tape was on NBC Nightly News last night.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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thats right dk,ignore the guilt
by Mark5019 / October 19, 2006 11:15 PM PDT

he is an acomplice in my eyes

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"Disheartening" A(one)U.S. official said
by marinetbryant / October 20, 2006 12:52 AM PDT

At what grade level did reading comprehension fall off?
It is the illegal immigrant loving, muslim appeasing nutroots that is disheartening.

Tom

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having been SHOWN the wonderful tribute...
by Edward ODaniel / October 22, 2006 1:24 AM PDT

to Kerry and his VVAW by the Communist government of Vietnam for his strong support of the protesting that helped the Communists win rather than surrender as GIAP himself said was the case after Tet '68 is it any wonder that the actions of the media are not having a similar influence to the influence they had back then?

You keep pretending all is bad because that is what your op editors who do your thinking tell you but if you would take a few days and actually speak to some soldiers (there are a couple of good sized installations relatively near you at Ft. Hood and Ft. Bliss) you would see for yourself that the media isn't telling the truth. The vast majority of the armed forces strongly support what they are doing and have done in Iraq and Afghanistan and don't try to find excuses to not go back. Matter of fact many, many of them are re-enlisting for the express purpose of further service but of course the liberal media doesn't want that to become widely known as it takes the wind out of the sails of their negativity.

Open your eyes for a change and try to see what isn't being told on the front pages. I won't hold my breath because that would mean doing some actual research and reading rather than blindly accepting what your editorials to bypass the brain have to say.

What is disheartening to the troops is the negative reporting and the constant focus on negativity by those claiming to support the troops but who actually do nothing at all to actually support rather than undermine them.

Tell us what YOU have done to show your actual SUPPORT for even a single service member Dave. Go ahead, TELL US! (We already are aware of what you have had to say and do that would serve to dishearten them and hope none have been here to read any of it.)

A personal attack? NO IT ISN'T! Dave himself has claimed to "support the troops" but words in the face of the evidence are rather empty (he has also stated that protests that aid the enemy are acts of "partiotism").

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having been SHOWN the wonderful tribute...
by Edward ODaniel / October 22, 2006 2:22 AM PDT

to Kerry and his VVAW by the Communist government of Vietnam for his strong support of the protesting that helped the Communists win rather than surrender as GIAP himself said was the case after Tet '68 is it any wonder that the actions of the media are not having a similar influence to the influence they had back then?

You keep pretending all is bad because that is what your op editors who do your thinking tell you but if you would take a few days and actually speak to some soldiers (there are a couple of good sized installations relatively near you at Ft. Hood and Ft. Bliss) you would see for yourself that the media isn't telling the truth. The vast majority of the armed forces strongly support what they are doing and have done in Iraq and Afghanistan and don't try to find excuses to not go back. Matter of fact many, many of them are re-enlisting for the express purpose of further service but of course the liberal media doesn't want that to become widely known as it takes the wind out of the sails of their negativity.

Open your eyes for a change and try to see what isn't being told on the front pages. I won't hold my breath because that would mean doing some actual research and reading rather than blindly accepting what your editorials to bypass the brain have to say.

What is disheartening to the troops is the negative reporting and the constant focus on negativity by those claiming to support the troops but who actually do nothing at all to actually support rather than undermine them.

Tell us what YOU have done to show your actual SUPPORT for even a single service member Dave. Go ahead, TELL US! (We already are aware of what you have had to say and do that would serve to dishearten them and hope none have been here to read any of it.)

A personal attack? NO IT ISN'T! Dave himself has claimed to "support the troops" but words in the face of the evidence are rather empty (he has also stated that protests that aid the enemy are acts of "partiotism").

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I totally agree with this comment...
by grimgraphix / October 19, 2006 11:14 PM PDT

At the end of the Sweetness n Light piece this comment is made..."Remember, this is the same one party media who will not show the victims of 9/11, the beheading of hostages -- even the Mohammad cartoons -- lest they offend."...

I think american media should be willing to show all aspects of the war on terror without editorializing by omission. The thing I'm confused about though is... would not showing executions of hostages by terrorists be the same as the airing of the sniper attacks on US soldiers? I mean if showing insurgent footage of US soldiers being wounded and killed on US media is harmful to american interests then how would showing americans having their heads hacked off (sometimes taking several minutes to complete) different?

I don't know if the folks at sweetness n light have entirely thought about what they are arguing for.

grim

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So is there any news media you believe or trust, or are they
by Ziks511 / October 22, 2006 6:58 AM PDT

all anti-American liars and fabricators? I mean simple statistics say that somewhere somebody must be telling the truth.

Rob

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America votes with its remote controls, is everybody wrong
by Ziks511 / October 22, 2006 7:02 AM PDT

but you?

Rob

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Just to clarify...
by grimgraphix / October 19, 2006 10:59 PM PDT

Not commenting on the appropriateness of airing the tape in the US media. However... if the comment below is accurate. The reporter was NOT with the insurgents and DID NOT make the tape himself while giving a ''blow by blow'' narration as suggested.

''One had Al-Shimary himself on camera -- his face electronically concealed -- responding to Michael's questions. The second tape surprised us even more. It documented 10 incidents of insurgent snipers attacking U.S. military personnel. To be clear, insurgents shot the tape themselves. This group has released similar tapes in the past. Indeed, you can find them on the Internet. But this tape uniquely included audio from the sniper team as they selected targets, waited for their opportunities and then praised Allah as they made their escapes.''

I find it interesting that afternoon commentators make a living discussing about how prejudiced the media is, how inaccurate the mainstream media is in its' reporting... yet make their reputations on their own mischaracterizations, their own apparent inaccuracies... when it suits that commentators own agenda. Of course I should say that I didn't hear Savages' comments myself either... maybe Savage was accurate re: the circumstances of the CNN report. Anyone know if Savage posts transcripts of the show?

grim

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i consider this reporter
by Mark5019 / October 19, 2006 11:02 PM PDT
In reply to: Just to clarify...

an accomplice, he didnt pull the trigger but he didnt warn the troops.
its to bad he wont be tried for murder:(

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He wasn't there Mark!
by grimgraphix / October 19, 2006 11:24 PM PDT

As I said... if the article is accurate, the guy did not make the tapes himself nor was he even present when they were made. He was given them by insurgent insiders and he reported about the tapes contents.

This is called killing the messenger.

If he did not make the tape... was not there when the tapes were made... then how could he possibly have warned the troopers?

I might add... video such as these are available all over the seamy underbelly of the internet if one is willing to go looking for them.

grim

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ok "if" he wasnt there
by Mark5019 / October 19, 2006 11:33 PM PDT
In reply to: He wasn't there Mark!

then hes just as bad as the rest of the media

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(NT) (NT) chuckle ;-)
by grimgraphix / October 20, 2006 12:15 AM PDT
In reply to: ok "if" he wasnt there
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Do you think
by Dragon / October 20, 2006 12:02 PM PDT
In reply to: (NT) chuckle ;-)
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Do I think it funny?
by grimgraphix / October 20, 2006 12:27 PM PDT
In reply to: Do you think

No.

Neither do I think you are any better that CNN when you post inflammatory inaccuracies from polipundits who make their living by pandering to people who thrive on partisan bickering. The post and your supporting comments are trying to make the case that CNN and the reporter Ware where somehow involved, and thus responsible, for the sniper activities shown in the video. Every additional link made on this thread refutes this argument.

Hey... if you don't like CNN that is fine. If you don't think they should have aired the report then say so. If you think airing such news on american TV somehow hurts all americans then make your case. I personally want to see all the news from our military adventures our administration has sent us on.

All I can say is that the video we see doesn't begin to match the stories my Family members tell me from the middle east. Do the video's make me want to recall our troops? All I can say is if our current leaders do not start trying to win this war then I think we should call the troops back. What I would prefer though is that we send more troops and try to accomplish what we started out to do. The thing that Bush said he would never do... get in the business of nation building.

Now... unless you want to be just as inaccurate and propaganda pushing as CNN is... would you please show documentation that Ware and CNN had actually been involved in the making of the sniper footage please? Otherwise, all your doing is adding to the fog of journalistic war.

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In my previous point
by Dragon / October 21, 2006 10:35 AM PDT
In reply to: Do I think it funny?

I was suggesting that the enemy's propaganda was relayed by CNN. It is still propaganda, despite being the "unvarnished truth" as what's his name from 360 calls it. I would not be too quick to defend that.

In my first note, I was not talking about video, I was talking about audio which gives anyone listening the distinct impression that he was describing the incident as if he were there.

And, again, if I could, I would validate or invalidate whether or not the question, "Was that the tape?" But as I said, I cannot hear it. Hopefully I'll have a new computer in the not-too-distant future.

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So, you are saying that CNN is broadcasting propaganda
by Kiddpeat / October 22, 2006 5:24 AM PDT
In reply to: Just to clarify...

films.

Whew! What a relief! I thought for a moment there that they had betrayed the country.

Wait a minute! Isn't broadcasting enemy propaganda .....

You mean there is no assurance that the whole thing wasn't staged?

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There have been 'staged' news events
by Dragon / October 22, 2006 12:46 PM PDT

I remember hearing this on TV. Sometimes a newsguy would want something done again, and the participants would happily oblige. Also, there've been times when there was nobody in country so the news guy would stand in front of a blue screen, making it look like he was really there.

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If it's the tape Tom linked to, Ware was not WITH them,
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / October 19, 2006 11:15 PM PDT

but rather describing what was shown on a tape the insurgents themselves made.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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