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General discussion

Mexico proposes decriminalizing pot and cocaine

Apr 28, 2006 7:31AM PDT

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Owning marijuana, cocaine and even heroin will no longer be a crime in Mexico if the drugs are carried in small amounts for personal use, under legislation passed by the Congress.

Police will not penalize people for possessing up to 5 grams of marijuana, 5 grams of opium, 25 milligrams of heroin or 500 milligrams of cocaine, under a bill passed by senators late on Thursday and earlier approved by the lower house.

People caught with larger quantities of drugs will be treated as narcotics dealers and face increased jail terms under the plan.

The government says the measure allows police to focus on major drug dealers, and President Fox is expected to sign it into law.

"This law provides more judicial tools for authorities to fight crime," presidential spokesman Ruben Aguilar said on Friday.

Hundreds of people including several police officers have been killed in the past year as drug cartels battle authorities and compete with each other for control of lucrative cocaine, marijuana and heroin smuggling routes from Mexico into the United States.

The violence has raged mostly in northern Mexico but in recent months has spread south to cities like vacation resort Acapulco.

Under current law, it is up to local judges and police to decide on a case-by-case basis whether people should be prosecuted for possessing small quantities of drugs, a source at the Senate's health commission told Reuters.

i agree with the pot but not the hard stuffSad
http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-04-28T164933Z_01_N281836_RTRUKOC_0_US-MEXICO-DRUGS.xml&rpc=22

Discussion is locked

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Southern California universities
Apr 28, 2006 12:59PM PDT

just saw their nuber of applications jump significantly

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I definitely agree with the pot, too Mark.
Apr 28, 2006 1:17PM PDT

I share your concern about the harder stuff, but this approach supposedly significantly cut into harder drug use in Holland... Of course, there they have socialized medicine that includes drug rehab for those who want it -- Mexico will presumably have no such safety net.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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I just love it........
Apr 28, 2006 1:32PM PDT

that some can be so anti smoking and yet condone the use of pot! Amazing

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I just have this image...
Apr 29, 2006 1:30PM PDT

of Americans sneaking over the border to get into Mexico.

Turnabout is fair play. Let's see how they deal with "illegals" going South.

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(NT) (NT) they will send there junkies here for help
Apr 28, 2006 2:02PM PDT
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Pot legalization will just make society worse
Apr 28, 2006 2:06PM PDT

There's already enough violent crime in Mexico and Southwestern US, and this would just increase its occurence. Also, more and more pot would find its way across the border.
The old good pot is one you stick a plant and dirt in.

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pots no worse than booze
Apr 28, 2006 10:57PM PDT

why make it a crime?

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Not defending alcohol ...
Apr 28, 2006 11:13PM PDT

... but pot is considerably different from alcohol. Alcohol is water soluble, canniboids are not. Irregardless of what EtOH might do when in the system, it is gone -- all gone -- in a matter of hours. Yes, there are diseases (cihhrosis for example) that are associated with excess EtOH consumption, but there's no cumulative effect.

Symposium on marijuana: Rheims, France, 22-23 July 1978

Yes, 1978.

Some tidbits:

...The inhibition of cellular proliferation and of synthesis of macromolecules by cannabinoids in eucaryote cells in culture (HeLa cells, neuroblastomas) was discussed at length at Rheims. Stein attributed this inhibiting action to an immediate action of these compounds on the plasma membrane; but, in the course of longer experiments, he suggested that the nuclear membrane might be affected particularly by the delta-8-THC of which substantial quantities are found in the nucleus. This, it seems, results in a distortion of the messages transmitted at this level by the RNA-polymerase, and a change in transcription. These observations were developed by Issidorides from Athens, who described the histochemical changes in lymphocytes and spermatozoa taken from chronic hashish smokers. These cells show a very marked deficiency in arginine-rich histones, a deficiency which is particularly evident at the level of the acrosome of the sperm cell. Such a change could be due only to a phenomenon occurring at the transcription level....

At the transcription level! That's messing with your DNA/RNA!!

Rosenkrantz reported that rats exposed to inhalation of marijuana smoke (under conditions equivalent to the daily consumption of a marijuana smoker) developed after 87 days, and up to 360 days, lesions in the lung parenchyma; these took the form of scattered small focal alveolitis, granulomatic phenomena and dense infiltrations of macrophages associated with deposits of cholesterol. The last-mentioned are signs of tissue destruction. The extent of the lesions depended on the duration of the experiments and the dose inhaled. They were still present a month after smoke inhalation had been stopped. The effects associated with marijuana were different from those produced by tobacco smoke and placebo smoke (a marijuana cigarette from which the cannabinoids had been extracted).

It's the canniboids ...

In short, it would seem that cannabinoids can act on the testicular function in two ways:

Through the gonadotropins FSH and LH, causing intermittent reductions in testosterone;

Directly on the germinative epithelium, causing changes in spermatogenesis and spermatogonia, which would explain the appearance of abnormal forms of spermatozoa.


From abnormal sperm come ...

In closing

From the public health standpoint, there are four categories of persons who might be warned forthwith of the risks involved in marjuana use. These categories are:

Adolescents, whose neuro-hormonal regulatory systems are in process of development and integration. We have seen that a single dose of marijuana can affect the secretion of the pituitary hormones referred to above;

Epilectics. The central stimulating effects of the THC may induce epileptioform seizures;

Persons with a tendency to schizophrenia and mental illness;

Women of child -bearing age who wish to have children.

From the therapeutic point of view, cannabidiol may prove to be a useful anti-epileptic nabilone, a synthetic cannabinoid, might might find some applications as an anti-emetic, as a tranquillizer and in the treatment of glaucoma. Many years will be needed to evaluate the effectiveness ot these new drugs.


I believe canniboids should be actively pharmaceuticalized. But the medical marijuna proponents have a larger agenda Sad

Evie Happy

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OTOH, drunks tend to become violent. That's not typical of
Apr 29, 2006 1:12PM PDT

"being high," Evie -- it generally makes you mellow, not violent. And the FDA's recent pronouncement that MJ has no medical utility is simply nonsense -- no scientific evidence included, and the opposite of the findings of three different expert panels (NIH, National Acadmeny of Sciences, and Institute of Medicine). Once Bush leaves, everyone over the level of about GS-18 in the FDA should be fired, as anyone above that level is now a conservative political hack, not an objective scientist or doctor.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Dave, I thought...
Apr 29, 2006 1:23PM PDT

Dave, I thought that the GS system topped out at GS-15. The people I have met above that level were SES.

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More nonsense than one can digest...
Apr 29, 2006 1:34PM PDT

I have seen a lot of drunks in my day. A very small percentage get violent. And I have seen violent behavior from people high on pot too.


The rest of your BS cheerfully ignored.

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C'mon Ed ...
Apr 29, 2006 2:01PM PDT

... the cure for America's ills is to replace all the violent drunks with stoned out people. I hear they emit less CO2 and are more environmentally friendly Wink

Evie Happy

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The only violent drunks are
Apr 30, 2006 1:50AM PDT

the Irish, and we prefer the term "belligerent." :-P

Seriously, despite the perception that MJ causes people to mellow (btw, despite being Irish, I'm a mellow drunk), the major effect, like alcohol, that contributes to crime is the inhibition of good judgement. There's less concious thought preventing users from acting on their impulses (such as I need money, lets steal from that guy).

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Not to mention ...
Apr 30, 2006 11:48PM PDT

... all the sex ed in the world won't stop an impaired person from having unprotected sex and all that entails.

Evie Happy

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Because, like booze
Apr 29, 2006 6:01AM PDT

it would cause crimes to be committed due to the drug's ability to impair judgement.
Go ask victims of drunk drivers if they want people to be able to drive with another drug in their system.

Just because our nation has the established evils of alcohol and tobacco does not mean that we should invite more.

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so if it causes more deaths
Apr 29, 2006 7:55AM PDT

why is booze legal?
it should be treated same in home use, not driveing

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They already tried to get rid of booze
Apr 29, 2006 9:05AM PDT

and if miserably failed. Unfortunately, a huge section of our economy is now tied up in alcohol and tobacco, so the effects of making those illegal would be disastrous. As a nation, we are "addicted" to the two drugs. Our "body" now requires them regularly to function properly.

That is still not an excuse to get hooked on other drugs though. More legal drugs = more associated crime and deaths.

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said pot not the hard stuff
Apr 29, 2006 10:00AM PDT

and b4 you say pots adictive i disagree.

and when they took the booze away who lost?

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One, marijuana is definitely
Apr 29, 2006 11:01AM PDT

psychologically addictive and as far as I know there is some evidence of minor physiological addiction also. It may not be "hard," but considering my friend who died while driving under the influence of marijuana (and nothing else), I'd say legalization would increase DWI accidents and deaths. Behavior and judgement are also impared under the influence of marijuana... so how many crimes are committed by those udner the influence of alcohol? Again, this would increase.
And, the fact that marijuana is a gateway drug still stands. Among all those I knew in high school that did drugs... there wasn't anyone who started directly with crack, heroine, or meth. Everyone started with ecstasy and marijuana.
I'm all for people being able to do what they want in the privacy of their own homes. Yet, this argument does not hold true for marijuana legalization. The effects of legalization would go well beyond personal entertainment...

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well i didnt get hooked
Apr 29, 2006 1:15PM PDT

did alot of it in nam some in states and gee never got hooked.

and as to gateway i dont see it, and as to drunks kill more on road the pot smokers.
you can dream but reality shows dif

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Sorry Mark ...
Apr 29, 2006 1:59PM PDT

... but nobody's dreaming. MJ has been proven to be addictive in many reputable scientific studies. That you didn't become addictive can be testament to how potentially addictive it might be, but not any sort of proof that it isn't.

I had a friend that used cocaine fairly regularly for a period of months. Then she had a scary experience (bad batch?). Never touched the stuff again. So I suppose cocaine isn't addictive by your logic?

If MJ was legalized and begin to be seen and used the same as alcohol, you would see a higher percentage of THC related auto accidents, etc. The thing about it is that it would be more difficult to determine a legal intoxication level. It stays in your system for FAR longer than EtOH and is far less predictable in the result.

I'm not sure if it being illegal contributes to it being a gateway drug, but there's no denying that it is.

Evie Happy

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no
Apr 29, 2006 2:01PM PDT

but ive seen lots coke heads that cant stop pot heads stopped
drunk drivers worse

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Drunk drivers are a small percentage of drinkers.
Apr 29, 2006 2:04PM PDT

Most pot heads just eventually get burnt out. They either straighten up or move on to something heavier once pot doesn't do it for them anymore. If that's a selling point ...

Evie Happy

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How are drunk drivers worse?
Apr 30, 2006 1:43AM PDT

Poor judgement, slowed reaction times, and a distortion of sensory input? All of the same occur with MJ. The only reason that the numbers for DD are worse is because alcohol is legalized, therefore there's less to prevent people from using it. MJ use would spike if legalized, and associated crimes/accidents would also.

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Another reason for the larger number of drunk drivers ...
May 1, 2006 12:01AM PDT

... vs. drug impaired is that EtOH gets "blamed" more frequently because it's tested for more frequently. Checkpoints only involve breatholyzers. Drug users frequently mix their drug of choice with alcohol. If the cops "get" someone on BAL they probably don't even bother with a pee test for drugs.

I do see a new revenue stream for law enforcement, however. They can start administering field pee-tests for the presence of THC. The stuff stays with you for a couple of days at a minimum. So smokers shouldn't be allowed to drive for at least 24 hours after smoking pot and the "criminal" level should be set low.

Evie Happy

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I believe that we should declare the war on drugs
Apr 28, 2006 8:51PM PDT

won and spend that money on rehab of the leftovers.

My son is currently in rehab and his wake-up call was that all his friends that hadn't quit using were dropping like flies. Just recently one wrapped his car around a tree while driving drunk and is in a coma, one ate a shotgun, and one had a major stroke and may not recover. That was just this month.

Diana

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I'm not sure if this would happen ...
Apr 29, 2006 9:48PM PDT

... but it is food for thought. It seems to me that a large portion of those in rehab find themselves there as an alternative to jail time that they would otherwise face. That's a powerful incentive to comply and at least some deterrant to future abuse because this is the ''get out of jail free card'' and you only get one (well, sometimes more, but eventually they run out). Obviously it doesn't help everyone, but if someone isn't going to get clean going through rehab as an alternative to jail, they sure aren't going to get clean if they know they just need to bide their time and will just end up back in rehab if they get caught again. Absent a court order, it is darned near impossible to ''commit'' a loved one if they won't go voluntarily, so I've known a few people in my life that have actually turned in their own in order to get them the help they couldn't convince them to get. If there's nothing to turn them in for, that avenue goes away.

I think part of the problem with the painkiller abuse among teens is that they don't think it's that serious a drug when they start -- it's a prescription drug after all, so has to be safer than some of the ''hard stuff''. I think decriminalizing drugs would send the wrong message, and you would have more addiction, not less.

I believe that even for other petty crimes associated with drugs, first time offenders routinely get a ''free pass''. Almost all of those doing hard time for ''drug related crimes'' are doing it for related crimes. If the law gets at least a few people into rehab BEFORE they commit a more serious crime, then it's worthwhile to have the law, IMO. Because we can't let them off for more serious crimes with a ''the drugs made them do it'' excuse and VERY few can sustain a habit for very long without eventually committing some crime to either sustain it or because of poor judgment (DUI, etc.) It's also worthwhile to get them into the justice system because MOST folks busted for simple use WEREN'T just having a good time in the privacy of their homes.

I'm glad your son is getting help and will pray for him to beat this demon.

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Be careful if going to a border town to smoke a joint
Apr 29, 2006 8:26AM PDT

without being arrested. Not safe like it used to be in the old days. Some eye openings about Nuevo Laredo,just across the border from Laredo about 150 miles from San Antonio. Not safe also in Juarez, twin city of Del Rio, Tx just across the border, with over 400 murders of women since 1993

http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/2707/
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/ciudad_juarez/

Articles about Nuevo Laredo (you could also get caught in the crossfire). If you need to login for mysanantonio:
Username gigem@aggies.com
Password gigemags

87 slayings in Nuevo Laredo this year, mostly drug related 4-26-06
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/crime/stories/MYSA042606.13A.nuevolaredo.a465e2a.html

Nuevo Laredo gunmen kill municipal cop near the border - 4-19-06
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/crime/stories/MYSA041906.09A.cop_shooting.12bdb019.html

Border radio voice is silenced - 3-11-06
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/crime/stories/MYSA031106.01A.border_killing.ebd66de.html

Threats push papers to bury dope stories 3-09-06
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA030906.17A.slayings_folo.428b513.html


Two police officers killed in ambush -3-07-06
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/crime/stories/MYSA030706.officerskilled.EN.2faae08.html

Border gunmen attack cops near police HQ - 2-03-06
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/crime/stories/MYSA020306.01A.nl_shooting.1d33cbdd.html

American badly wounded in Nuevo Laredo shooting - 11-21-05
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/mexico/stories/MYSA112105.1A.mexico.369627c.html

Desire to read about 100 more then click:
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sharedcontent/search/indexmysa.jsp?page=1&paging=true&process=true&morelikethis=true&advanced=false