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General discussion

Medicare for all

Oct 11, 2018 10:25PM PDT

Some comments have come up about tax increases to pay for this.

If a company drops there health care and send there people to MFA how about billing that company to provide health care for their employees.

If a state sends 500k medicaid residents to MFA how about billing that state for the service.

If a person under 65 joins MFA set their premiums to reflect their cost savings

Perhaps the tax increase would be smaller or not needed.

Discussion is locked

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There's a much larger picture to look at
Oct 12, 2018 3:06AM PDT

There is insurance (Medicare or otherwise) and there is health care. As well, there is health care and there is "quality" health care. I could fear that adding too many more layers to the system will change the ratio of actual providers to payers and managers. If a person is going to spend X number more years in training with less money to show for their efforts, where is the incentive for the best and brightest to become doctors and nurses? Maybe we should look into AI and R2D2 robots to take care of us.

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Health care
Oct 12, 2018 3:30AM PDT

If only the wealthy can afford to buy quality health care then that's not much of a health care system.
Any single payer system would have to pay enough to attract good providers into the system.
If the payer does not then the system falls apart.

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Still a bit short sighted, IMO
Oct 12, 2018 4:29AM PDT

The operative word...which you used...is "system". First, we'd need to be clear on what that system offered and covered. Way back when, there was talk of a "system" that offered coverage for catastrophic events. Perhaps we could still build on that concept. To do this, however, we'd need something like a "no fault" clause which isn't going to be popular with some politicians.

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The medicare system
Oct 12, 2018 11:00AM PDT

As it is today is pretty clear what it offers.
Although for your average person it can be quite confusing.

The Sander's plan would make it a work in progress.
I would expect that plan to have some growing pains.

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How about
Oct 12, 2018 3:31AM PDT

increasing the eligibility requirements back to pre-BO days so fewer people depend on the State or Fed government to take care of them and they go back to being responsible for themselves? Government is NOT, by law, required to be the answer to every demand of liberals.

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No problem, then.
Oct 12, 2018 11:05AM PDT

Health care for conservatives only. Should lessen the burden on the "system".
Next?

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This comes down to
Oct 12, 2018 11:19AM PDT

Is health care a right?
Should the government take care of it's citizens?
According to you....the person who would have let the entire banking system for the country collapse....the answer is no.
In your eyes it's every man for himself.....sink or swim.

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Health care is one thing...
Oct 12, 2018 12:36PM PDT

health insurance with lousy CARE is another......and NEITHER is a RIGHT. Health insurance has always been an option, and MANY choose NOT to buy it or buy catastrophic insurance only, which was always offered by insurance companies.

It's NOT the government's responsibility to force people to comply with regard to what they purchase for themselves, Bob....and to add insult to injury, force them to purchase insurance that they don't NEED or will ever USE (such as birth control for 60 yr olds or people who will never have children for whatever reasons they have). That is NOT 'taking care of its citizens'.....it's just another aspect of 'share the wealth' by forcing some to pay for other people's insurance, and again to add insult to injury, subsidize some to pay their premiums, AND cover every person living here, legal or not. It's total BS by liberals as usual.

CHOICE for US citizens is the ONLY option....some will choose to purchase the insurance coverage they want or can afford, some will have great plans provided for them by their employers, and some will choose to NOT by insurance at all and take the risk of losing everything to pay a hospital bill, just as insurance companies take the risk that you won't die tomorrow after taking out a million dollar life insurance policy.

And, yes, we should have never bailed out the banks....we didn't during the Great Depression and the economy recovered naturally, just as it did in 1920 when it 'collapsed'. We would have recovered naturally again without government interference in 2008 as well. History has proven that. Reagan bailed out the auto industry in 1980+ and shouldn't have done that either because none of those companies learned a damned thing and did it to themselves all over again 20 years later. They also should have been allowed to fail....especially since they got bailed out TWICE (TARP and BO a year later) in a horrific deal made by the BO administration of allowing GM especially to shut down as the existing company and start up a new company under the same name, but causing MILLIONS of small portfolio investors to lose their original stock rendering them useless because they weren't allowed to transfer that stock to the 'new' company. BO had no problem with 'every man for himself' in that deal and failed them all miserably, just as the banks were bailed out because of the housing crap, but the homeOWNERS lost everything. He should have given the money straight to those people instead of the banks...….

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Is that another anti-BO rant?
Oct 12, 2018 1:24PM PDT

I don't think there is anything in medicare for all that will force you to buy it.

On the plus side taking 32 trillion bucks out of the repub pockets will make the dems smile.

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YOur first sentence is a joke and a lie....
Oct 12, 2018 4:17PM PDT

Medicare is automatically by Federal Law deducted from your paychecks. You are NOT allowed to OPT out of it.

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I said nothing about medicare
Oct 12, 2018 5:27PM PDT

You went off in the weeds once again.

I said medicare for all which is a buy in option for non-seniors.

Show me where someone 35 is forced to buy it as a health care insurance program for today's needs.

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The consumer would still end up being forced
Oct 13, 2018 2:06AM PDT

to pay for it....here's Sanders' list of ways to pay for it. It will all be charged back to the consumer via fees and higher prices for everything in order for companies et al to be forced via higher taxes to pay for it. Come on, Bob....force is still force and the consumer pays the price every time, and any time the government gets involved with running 'social programs', the taxpayer loses EVERY time, mostly by inefficiency, waste, or outright fraud by anyone smart enough to game the system. The main thing for big government headed up by either party has always been and will always be CONTROL of the people...the more they have to depend on the government to take care of their 'needs/wants' the easier it is for that government to control their lives and actions. And, again, there will be NO option for the people to opt out and the end result will again be total failure for another government experiment.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-how-bernie-sanders-would-pay-for-his-medicare-for-all-program-2017-09-13

And, in case you didn't realize it, the list includes massive new taxes on INDIVIDUALS via the estate/death tax, meaning family owned businesses and farms will be gone again.

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MFA
Oct 13, 2018 9:24AM PDT

If it gains traction will be a work in progress.
What will be the net cost of such a program.
If it turns out to be 30 trillion bucks I don't think that will fly.

Pols from both sides of the aisle would need to sit down and get a real number on this thing.
If it comes out in the doable range then the next step is to figure out how to pay for it.
If they want to increase my medicare premium by 60 bucks a month but add dental and remove co-pays and deductibles I can live with that.
Our health care system now is a mishmash with out of control cost.

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You described Obamacare perfectly
Oct 13, 2018 11:35AM PDT

"Our health care system now is a mishmash with out of control cost." and Medicare For All is just another Obamacare on steroids. Leave the government out of it, allow insurance companies to sell across State lines to be more competitive and prices come down. Simple 'supply and demand' reasoning works every time, Bob. When there are NO or very limited options for purchasing a product, prices go wherever those in charge want them to be. M4A and Obamacare leaves NO choices and NO competition and you end up with government AGAIN screwing it up. We don't need any more social programs that can be excused for their disastrous failures with 'it's a work in progress'. Everytime a liberal uses the words 'progressive' or 'comprehensive', the taxpayer gets screwed. IF politicians would be willing to put an actual BILL on the ballot and let the VOTERS/TAXPAYERS have a say in it, it would be defeated every time and they know it, which is why only a select few make the decision and CRAP gets passed, and conveniently most of those bills have a clause that lets those politicians off the hook by not having to abide by the rules of those bills. Go back in history and see which party actually STARTED all these social programs....you'll find that most, if not all, have been the Dems....and they've NEVER worked out for the people having to pay for them.

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So if you had your way
Oct 13, 2018 10:51PM PDT

You would shutdown medicaid and medicare?

How about the VA system that seems to be a work in progress would you shut that down?

Was the VA system created by the Dems?

MFA will be one-stop-shopping.

If you don't like the product go to another insurance company.

We need a number as to what it's going to cost...gross.. to supply each member of MFA with the services offered.......not a Bernie number.

Then we can subtract savings and come up with a net cost per member.

It is not a for profit program.

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You keep talking about the 'insurance coverage'
Oct 14, 2018 4:18AM PDT

end rather than what 'plans' would actually give the CARE people are looking for....without many insurance companies crossing state lines so competition in rates can give people OPTIONS to CHOOSE from, you're still looking at forced plans that people don't want or need and renaming Obamacare to MFA. We already have some States that only have ONE or NO insurance companies to look at and for that reason alone prices have skyrocketed under Obamacare.

Medicare as it stands today is not sustainable. Too many people have qualified for it, just as Social Security benefits are unsustainable for the same reason. When people stopped looking for jobs once their unemployment benefits ran out, BO lowered the eligibility requirements for them to apply for SS Disability under 'mental duress' crap and not only got permanently disabled but also got Medicare immediately. You used to not be able to get Medicare if you were disabled before retirement age for at least two years....just in case you got better and were able to go back to work. Now there are many who qualify for Medicare years before actually retiring at age 66. Ronald Reagan tossed everyone off SS Disability when he got into office and made them reapply because there was so much fraud and abuse....and millions never reapplied saving the country trillions of dollars. The same should be done again immediately.

Medicaid is a State run benefit....and many who are on Medicare actually can now qualify for Medicaid as well so they can get dental and eye glasses that Medicare doesn't pay for. How stupid is THAT? If you go to a hospital/doctor on Medicare, you still have a deductible and only 80% of the bill is covered. Now, if you have Medicaid TOO, you pay NOTHING....even more stupid and costly.

Both systems USED to work.....but not anymore and both need to be overhauled severely causing people to be more responsible for THEMSELVES again. The government has to STOP lowering eligibility requirements and driving it into a social goodwill tunnel that working taxpayers drown in. And if you think it's not a for profit program, you're dreaming because social programs like Planned Parenthood benefit greatly from Medicaid as do many clinics/dentists/pharmacies/etc.

People have been screaming for years that the VA needs to be overhauled....things look like they are heading in that direction finally. But every government run agency is whacked from fraud and abuse (like spending $1000 for a hammer or toilet seat) and as long as you have employees that can NOT be fired when found to be corrupt or embezzling or abusing the system, things WON'T change. The government is firmly convinced (as are many Congressional politicians) that the money they receive from the taxpayer belongs to THEM to spend as they wish rather than them working FOR that taxpayer. Every single government employee works for the PEOPLE and should be able to be fired when they aren't doing what they were hired to do. Overhaul THAT and we could actually be on our way to a better and more efficient BUSINESS of assets and liabilities and get our debt paid and our government houses in order.

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MFA
Oct 14, 2018 5:52AM PDT

Will give people another option or perhaps their only option.
If they don't like it then don't buy it.

Insurance companies going across state lines is fine that will give people another option.

The fraud and abuse within gov agencies is a management problem just as not being able to terminate someone for not doing their job.

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MFA doesn't give another option
Oct 14, 2018 7:12AM PDT

It will be the ONLY option.....just like Obamacare.....the only difference will be that people and companies won't be forced to buy it. Which means that companies will drop ALL coverage (just like Amazon just did) as a benefit, which in turn forces employees to make a decision to buy it separately/individually or not have any at all. You can spin it any way you want, Bob, but millions more will be without insurance because rates will skyrocket even faster trying to cover others with families or longterm illnesses.....and then even others that get an illness or have an accident that purchase out of immediate necessity and then get better and drop it again. Crossing state lines will STILL only give MFA as an option because private insurance companies won't exist in an MFA world.

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MFA
Oct 14, 2018 7:42AM PDT

The only way that will fly is if it does not need a butt load of taxpayer money to fund it.

If it gets off the ground and forces out the private insurers but meets my needs then I'm happy.

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YOur first sentence makes no sense
Oct 14, 2018 12:38PM PDT

If it's run by the government, it will ONLY be funded by taxpayers....who do you think funds the government in the first place?

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Funded
Oct 14, 2018 5:23PM PDT

The medicaid program gets shut down so whatever the admin cost was gets moved over to MFA as a credit.

The fed was sending each state a buck for their medicaid pot.
That buck now gets sent to MFA as a credit.

Each state would match that buck to fund the medicaid program in that state.
That buck gets sent to MFA as a credit.

Except for the medicaid types anyone using MFA will pay a premium.
That premium will show as a MFA credit.

Now we get to add up credits and see what the cost of running MFA is.
If there is a shortfall then other sources of credits will be needed.

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And again, the working taxpayer funds them both
Oct 15, 2018 2:21AM PDT

via Fed taxes and the State taxes...…...and there are NO choices....another Obamacare program run like all the rest of the government programs right into a money pit.

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Yup
Oct 15, 2018 8:17AM PDT

Taxes and member contributions will fund MFA.
What the private Ins companies chose to do is their business.
There is no penalty for not buying MFA.

You want choices?
Move to Russia Putin will give you all the choices you want.

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The fewer choices we have
Oct 15, 2018 9:35AM PDT

means we're moving closer to socialism and government control of everything, AKA Putin. We won't have to move.

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Choices
Oct 15, 2018 10:08AM PDT

The pols in Washington know what's best for you so accept your fate and quit carping about it.

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(NT) that ain't happening...lol
Oct 15, 2018 2:14PM PDT
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OK. Cut Medicare and SS.
Oct 14, 2018 7:10AM PDT

Leaves more money for weapons systems; more peace and security for the populace.
Next?

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One "bone of contention" is pre-existing conditions
Oct 13, 2018 2:17AM PDT

How would you handle that? A hallmark of the Obama plan was to include such things at no additional cost in premiums. Private plans have resisted this coverage in most cases. The exception seems to be employees of a company whose contract covers the pool and not the individual. These contract are generally re-negotiated annually and premiums affected by historical costs and employer policy regarding hiring of persons with known health issues. In almost all cases, however, premium costs for these plans exceed those of Medicare plans. Remember also that "advantage" plans are only managed by the authorized insurers. The Medicare system pays for both patient services and the management costs. Keep also in mind when talking about payment by state or federal dollars that it's just a matter of which pants pocket the money comes from. The pants are worn by the taxpayer so whether the money comes from the left, right, or rear pockets, that taxpayer is still left with same total...if any is left at all.

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Pre-existing
Oct 13, 2018 9:35AM PDT

That would be something the designers of MFA would have to work out.

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The suggested one already include it
Oct 14, 2018 2:53AM PDT

and we've already seen political ads either touting such a plan or making sure it's part of any changes to the ACA plan. What would really be unfair to those who've long been paying premiums that would cover illnesses that might occur, is to allow those who've deliberately avoided purchasing medical insurance but, now, have a serious medical problem and expect to be able to buy cheap coverage for expensive treatment. An automobile insurance company isn't going to allow you to call them from an accident scene and buy coverage for the repairs.