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Meat Man needs help choosing Hi-Def players!

by jostenmeat / December 10, 2007 6:47 AM PST

I have been patient for over a year in buying a hi-def player until they resolved playback for all of the new formats. I was recently interested in the bdp-up5000 as both BD, HD-DVD. However, it will not unpack or bitstream MA out of the box as I originally hoped, or AFAIK.

So, Im thinking about getting the Panasonic DMP-BD30. This requires upgrading my current pre-pro.

I realize that the new Panny + a new HD-DVD player costs the same, if not less, than the aforementioned Samsung by itself. Seems like the wtg. With two hdmi slots on the tv, Ill just run components for the cable box. However, if neither upscales as well as my Denon, Im not sure what to do. That was what really made the Samsung so interesting, the Reon HQV. I'd love to have that. Just maybe not quite the priority that MA might be.
http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/panasonic-dmp-bd30/4505-6463_7-32730548.html

I have been somewhat following the BD players for the last year, but not at all the HD-DVD players. I still think I'd like to have one. So, I know some of you guys sell these things, but Im not sure how much experience, knowledge, or "little" issues you guys might help me be aware of. Can anyone share some input? Happy

1. Will someone please tell me which HD-DVD player I should be getting? I want the best in terms of audio first, then the video. If I can have the best of both, I'll get it.

2. I'm thinking about trading in my NAD for an Integra 9.8 (since I need to with that Panny, which is the first 1.1 profile compliant BD player AFAIK). Any other pre-pro's I should be considering? I realize that I might be the guy here who knows more about this stuff, but it never hurts to ask. Btw, the Integra has the HQV. Oh wait, I don't have to worry about lack of HDMI slots, the Integra has 4 inputs... I feel so behind the times! Silly (Funny how that can happen so fast...) Sweet, I can keep using the Denon...
http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=DTC-9.8&class=Separates&p=f

I would be blowing my budget on room treatments, tubed 2-ch pre-pro with HT pass thru etc, but I am still waiting on the possibility of separating my 2-ch system before I make any large expenditures. All the more reason to go hi-def!

Thanks guys!

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Best of luck in your new quest, jostenmeat.
by NM_Bill / December 10, 2007 10:39 AM PST

The eagerness of your projects has led also to your rapidly escalating desires that project into high end audiophile fans. That sort of wanders past the limits of C/NET reporting about mass market stuff.

I have wandered into a couple of esoteric forums that argue the virtues of replacing one high end pre/pro with another that natuarlly coosts 50% more. Your project, however, gets concerned with latest generation technology.

The Integra pre/pro looks pretty nicely featured at first read. I know you will not rest until you have made a move into pretty much the latest iteration of some equipment. And that will cost you some bucks. Hope what move that is will bring you much pleasure. In seeking forum participant knowledge at this level, I think you will be spending time at some of those more esoteric sites.

Latching onto a point of tech develpoment is one thing. Just don't toss to the wind my favorate dealers philosophy that above the good level, it rapidly gets very, very bound up in opinion. He's not going to waste time trying to argue down strong headed customers.

But that feeling goes along with recent posts sort of lamenting speaker dealers being rigidly so high in opinion on the particular brand which they represent. Hey, that's typical.

You'll be leaving folks like me in the dust as I have built a sort of library of my idea of classic movies & that is all in regular DVDs. That level of picture is fine with me. I shop a lot of used discs through Amazon where the situation develops that there is a plentiful supply of certain movies o some lasting quality. So the used discs are often less than the falt rate $2.98 for shipping that the Amazon system has built in.

Hey, it's simple. I'm cheap. I hate to pay over ten bucks for a DVD. I am not entertaining th enotion now of increasing that cost by, say, 50%. But, knowingyou to the extent that I do, I'm sure you'll do your homework (so to speak) & wind up with some awesome picture quality. Much enjoyment of the experience.

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thanks for your response Bill
by jostenmeat / December 10, 2007 12:48 PM PST

You know, I haven't invested much into video. Cheapest Denon and a dlp. I never owned a single dvd until last year. Ya, you heard me right. Ive been since slowly collecting all used dvd's for about that price, yes, $10 a pop, sometimes $5.

I just want hi-def now Happy

Just talked with my Panny friend. Im going to get a killer deal on the newest 1.1 player. Like really good deal, I'll probably order tomorrow. Maybe I'll go pick up HD-DVD tomorrow too along with the Bourne Supremacy Happy When the Christmas spirit takes hold, watch out!

we'll talk soon my friend. I'll let you know what happens.

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I'm holding off on the whole thing a little longer..
by RustyDallas / December 10, 2007 11:46 PM PST

My biggest fear is that before the shake out happens, I will be able to download high def movies from Net Flix etc. Time Warner already has 1080i movies I can rent and they look very good. Something tells me in a few years, many of us won't be using DVD's at all.

Rusty

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Just saw where CNET
by RustyDallas / December 10, 2007 11:47 PM PST

is having a live Blu-ray VS HD DVD chat at 2:00 PM your time today. Might be worth jumping in.

Rusty

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(NT) Oops...11:00 AM your time
by RustyDallas / December 10, 2007 11:49 PM PST
In reply to: Just saw where CNET
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Don't know if anyone had paid attention to my fearless
by NM_Bill / December 10, 2007 11:56 PM PST
In reply to: Just saw where CNET

forecast. I've extrapolated from the recent public interview with the Sony CEO where he was both refreshingly candid, but also in effect selling out employee morale by revealing he was doing the time honored cop out of laying balme or faults & missed opportunities to negotiate a combined standard - on his precessors. He also talked rather casually about maybe PS3 someday having a different format than BluRay. That sounds like early hints of a sellout.

Not quality that will prevail. HD will win because it is cheaper & more accessible to DVD producers than the restricted access to the Sony disc production. The Sony CEO said their player is sold with a price premium to indicate paying for quality. They will refuse to sell players as price leaders while HD will whbich will steadily gain customers.

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So you declare HD-DVD the winner?
by jostenmeat / December 11, 2007 1:55 AM PST

Honestly, I think they will both be around as some sort of niche market, at least for a very long time before either has a chance to really take off. That's my guess.

Remember how I said I just started my DVD collection. Even at only $10 a pop, I always think, "I should be buying hi-def!". I just traded my Spiderman 3 DVD (one of only two new DVD's I have ever bought, the other being Flags of our Fathers, now I only have one new DVD) for the BD version from a friend. His sister mistakenly bought it for him, when he only has a HD-DVD drive on his computer (which is already broken too as well). She doesn't even know what HD-DVD is. She's seen a millions ads for BD though.

Anyways, I don't care who wins, though I root only a bit for the superior BD format. Im going format neutral right out of the gate. If only to have access to any and all titles that release as hi-def. I will only buy movies that I deem are worth having, not only in content, but with which formats recorded. Call me a super-freak. I think X-Men2 is a superior flick to X-Men3, but I only have the latter since its recorded in ES Happy *shrugs*

Anyways, its happening! I ordered the dmp-bd30 last night for a steal, probably something similar to deals you got on your own dvd players.

I started research on HD-DVD players last night. There truly does seem to be more issues with QC than with BD players. Also it appears that there are more issues with FW updates. Maybe it appears that you get what you pay for?

While I have now gathered what I want between Tosh players themselves, I am curious about the new Integra player.

Rusty, thanks so much for the heads up. I think they will only go over stuff of which I am already aware. Not sure if I can spare the time either, but it is truly tempting! I'll let you know if I do...

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Yes,I do figure both formats will linger around.
by NM_Bill / December 11, 2007 2:24 AM PST

Take my stick the neck out prognostication for what it may be worth. I just figure cheaper price will be the reason for that way to prevail. Reasons: Sony will not price compete on price of players & going the way of HD DVD is cheaper for content producers with more production facilities at hand & Sony with a reputation for an arrogance that leads to considering them a pain in the *** to deal with. I've heard a lot about how Disney is resented for its arrogance of it being their way or the highway. Heck, Dreamworks came from disaffected former Disney employees.

The virtue of superior quality is no particular reason to feel that should be the prevailing way to go. Haven't we all seen the typical American way of business having cheaper goods driving out the better? Cheap trumps quality. Sorry 'bout that.

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if you happent to be correct
by jostenmeat / December 11, 2007 2:39 AM PST

that would be a shame.

HD-DVD is the same thing as a regular DVD. They just use different files.

I have decided not to listen to you this time. Because I am a bit jealous of all the high-res music listeners out there, and it was you who talked me out of it.

if cheap trumps quality, why have you owned B&W, NAD, Tannoy, Rotel, Denon, Paradigm, and Oppo? HTIB's haven't killed them off quite yet. Vizio hasn't killed off Pioneer. While, my computer friends may scoff, you also type away on a Mac, right? At least you get better QC there. Good for you that they recently figured how to handle pc os and software. Fry's put-together systems over the years never killed them off either.

Maybe you can enlighten me on something. Will the decision to not price-compete on Sony's behalf affect all the other BD player manufacturers, such as Panasonic, Samsung, Pioneer, et al. How will it affect the great majority of studios releasing the titles? Does Sony have some sort of monarchial rule over them?

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Well, as the technology creator, whatever happens with
by NM_Bill / December 11, 2007 3:26 AM PST

Sony created Blu Ray affects all the others down the line. When the CEO publicly comesw across as notg 100% committed to BluRay technology, that is BIG.

Certainly you needn't ever listen to me. I'm just some older guy who posts. Yes, I do make personal budgetary sacrifices in order to have things with list prices totalling $8800 just to listen to my CDs. Yep, and a Mac just because I fell into idea of Apple as David versus Goliath, long ago. I am not a better person because I use a Mac Powerbook. I do like to the computer though & had years of having to use the company equipment on the job but preferring the occasional bursts of genius & creativity about Apple. Many a writer who earns a living taking care of big inhouse pc systems will admit an awe about Microsoft not coming near to writing software with the typical elegance of Apple. Doesn't make much difference though with a smallish guy having something like a 3.5% installed base.

Sorry, I do hate to think cheap almosrt always drives out quality in the typical marketplace evolving. I also admire McIntosh equipment & know your Martin Logan electrostats are absolutely dreamy, but I was never thinking I would spend yet again that much because I do tend to have old leftover hippie thoughts of guilt about materialistic self indulgence.

I didn't really keep you from SACD did I, as the Denon DVD 2910 does SACD.

As I wind down my seasonal preparations, having gotten 20 strings of icicle mini bulbs in blue, hot glued around roofline perimeter, etc. I do enjoy the regulars here & hope for all the best in the New Year for these fine friends.

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I ordered the HD-DVD player too
by jostenmeat / December 11, 2007 5:44 AM PST

from amazon, the hd-a35. I don't think there are any HD-DVD discs with MA encoded, but at least I have the ability to stream it. I also ordered Planet Earth BD set, and for HD discs, got 4 of em as buy one get one free from amazon. Dang, they are affordable! Like $10 a piece, IIRC? My friend told me Bourne Supremacy is released today, I might go pick it up.

It seems not so expensive Bill. Your 3 dvd players combined probably cost as much as my Denon, BD, and HD-DVD combined at well under $1k. Some HD discs are cheap as $10, and there are more free promotions going on than I can remember. I should be getting two in the box I think with the Tosh, 5 free with BDp purchase, etc, etc. There are more I am forgetting.

Now, what to do about the pre/pro. Im thinking about the Onkyo 705. I could trade my pre/pro in for that with my dealer. Hmmmm. Is the Integra worth it for the extra premium? I definitely can care less about balanced XLR's, but part of me feels funny going for an amp section that will be unused in the 705.

And, yes, Bill it was you who talked me out of Sacd and Dvda. I started a thread long ago about such players. IIRC, it might have been River who went off on the hits and misses of Sony around that time. That was a great post, whoever that was.

Rusty, I totally missed out on the "ask the editor" session. Oh well, thanks though.

And as for the New Years to fellow posters, I will join in the spirit. However, we all conspire to make each other poorer. Funny Bill how you splurged on those 804s soon after you helped me find my way to the stats. Then reading about Rusty's remote and transducer purchases just really got me going!

*sigh* Shocked

psst... I can't wait!

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oh the hd-dvd discs I ordered are
by jostenmeat / December 11, 2007 5:57 AM PST

-Unforgiven
-Ray
-Dog Day Afternoon
-Blue Planet IMAX

$10 a piece. Very nice. Maybe I should get more...

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(NT) I you're getting them for ten apiece, that's pretty nice.
by NM_Bill / December 11, 2007 7:03 AM PST
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lol ...Conspiring to get each other in deeper...
by RustyDallas / December 11, 2007 8:08 AM PST

is what we addicts do. So, in that spirit, congratulations for so thoroughly solving the dvd dillema. That'll teach em to mess with you with their silly little format war.

I was worried that one tranducer wouldn't be enough to handle a whole king sized bed but my concerns were unfounded. Set it up today and it works great. All this vibration and I didn't even have to put in 50 cents! With savings like this, it'll pay for itself in no time!

After you've gotten your fix, let me know how much better it is than a 1080p upscaler. I'm particularly curious about the upgrade to the sound.

I'm Rusty and it's been 0 days since my last purchase.

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(NT) Spoken like an admitted addict.
by NM_Bill / December 11, 2007 9:19 AM PST
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oh man....
by jostenmeat / December 11, 2007 2:47 PM PST

Saw this post earlier, didnt have time to respond...

I was briefly on hold with a governmental medical rep, and sometimes I know these things can be slow, so of course I quickly popped on here...

oh man I was laffing reeel goood. So Im talking with the lady, and I can't help think of the post and just start chuckling... oh well, its ok, we thoroughly worked it out (although Im guessing it will take 3 months to resolve, I digress)...

but that #%^* juz tooo funnieeee


LaughSillyBlushLaugh

oiiii my tummy. pant pant ok I almost forgot, I think you might have asked something.

oh ya.. I don't and will not have any 1080p upscaler (unless I do go Integra.... hmmm droooooool.... Devil

as for the sound... well to be honest, I have trying less and less in critiquing my setup, and just trying to enjoy or immerse myself in the film or music. I don't want to be a gear head only to be a gear head. I figure it will be better, and I will leave it at that. Hey, if a friend wants to A/B test, of course I will oblige.

I intend to go on a brain farting tour de force here:
I am sorry to keep making analogies to music (its all I knew for many years). (bear with me here) ... but with it, its always about the littlest details. I mean, bending over backwards for something that 99% of the population would never notice, when the "compromise" would be 100x easier and sound just as fantastic to them (ok whatever, philosophical approach of being entirely organic or true or pervasive with intent, iono) but add enough of this attention to detail to say 50 spots in a 2 minute piece, and it just simply sounds better to everyone, including professionals. But, they could not tell you why it sounds better, sometimes including professionals!

In a nutshell, I do not intend to do comparative tests here. Well, I guess it will invariably happen, but I think it might be a looong time before I have a duplicate hi-def disc of a current dvd I own (remember, my collection is modest). Also packed in this nutshell is that I will just go along with the placebo effect, as false as the placebo may be. Who knows, I might be back freaking out about its quality.... still need that pre/pro first, they'll be hooked by optical until then.... ok, forget everything I just said, I do predict I will be very pleased (salt please, placebo?). When I heard my first DTS-ES tracks last year was when I got hooked. If it wasn't for a stupid 7.1 Onkyo htib and the ES tracks of Xmen3, LOTR, Gladiator, etc, I might have 1000 hours of my life back from these forums and do other such wonderful things. Alas... oh ya not to mention the money saved.

thanks for the great humor man. It made my afternoon. seriously.

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