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McCain Calls Obama a "Socialist".

by James Denison / October 18, 2008 6:49 PM PDT

Well, it's about time. Most of us old enough to know the difference between a republic, a democracy, socialism, and communism have figured that one out a long time ago. Hopefully the younger, less aware voters will start to investigate what that really means for them and where it can lead.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/18/campaign.wrap/index.html
Sen. John McCain stepped up his rhetoric against his Democratic rival on taxes in his weekly radio address Saturday, comparing his plan to "socialist" programs.

The remarks were part of a theme McCain has used since the final presidential debate, but his most recent comments were the first time he used the word to describe Sen. Barack Obama.

In the radio address, McCain didn't directly call Obama a socialist, but he let the now-famous Joe "the Plumber" Wurzelbacher nearly do it for him.

"You see, [Obama] believes in redistributing wealth, not in policies that help us all make more of it. Joe, in his plainspoken way, said this sounded a lot like socialism," McCain said Saturday.

Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin has used the word in speeches the past two days as well.

Asked why McCain used the word "socialist" in the radio remarks, a spokesman said, "That's what it is. 'Spreading the wealth' around is socialism."

Palin invoked Wurzelbacher again Saturday, needling Obama for having a "staged photo-op" interrupted by a voter asking him a question about taxes.

"So when he left Joe's neighborhood in Toledo, our opponent didn't look real happy,Seems that the staged photo-op there got ruined by a real person's question. So here's a guy working -- standing there in his neighborhood when a candidate for president shows up, and he wanted more than just a handshake and a campaign button. He wanted some answers."

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You'll like socialism
by Steven Haninger / October 18, 2008 8:53 PM PDT

It'll be just like being a kid again. No decisions to make, no worries about where your next meal is coming from (only what's going to be on your plate), maybe you won't have to worry about having a job....just pick from the menu of those the government has left to fill. What's your prob? Wink

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McCain Calls Obama a "Socialist".
by JP Bill / October 18, 2008 9:08 PM PDT
McCain didn't directly call Obama a socialist.

How does that work?
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"Spreading the wealth is socialism."
by Kees Bakker / October 18, 2008 9:13 PM PDT

So what is republicanism?
Keeping it for yourself? Keeping the lower class poor?

Just asking.

Kees

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When it's mine, Yes.
by James Denison / October 18, 2008 10:44 PM PDT

When you take something that isn't yours, it's called "stealing". As for "lower class" perhaps you can define your own terms? Some are poor through no fault of their own, many are poor through every fault of their own. For instance just down the road from me in Baltimore 70% of children born are illegitimate. That's responsibility? I should support that sort of activity? No, I'd rather my children benefit from what I'm able to give them. Not every poor person put themself there, but I'd prefer to give to the church and let them make those distinctions instead of government who doesn't and therefore encourages the same sort of activity by doing so. Yeah, I know, morality, such an old fashioned concept.

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Most people ...
by Kees Bakker / October 18, 2008 10:53 PM PDT
In reply to: When it's mine, Yes.

wouldn't seriously call taxes (be it federal, state or local) - if decided on by the congress or whatever the legal authority happens to be - as 'stealing'.

Stealing, by definition, is illegal. Taxes are legal. So takes aren't stealing. That doesn't imply, of course, that people like paying them.

Or am I missing something?

Kees

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God's view on Taxes
by James Denison / October 18, 2008 11:25 PM PDT
In reply to: Most people ...

Oh for those good old days when it was ONLY a tenth. Publicans (tax collectors) weren't too well thought of in the NT either. Tax and "take" mean basically the same thing. Taxes for infrastructure, common defense, is enough, especially on a federal level.
===================================

I Samuel chapter 8
10 And Samuel told all the words of the LORD unto the people that asked of him a king. 11 And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots. 12 And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots. 13 And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers. 14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants. 15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants. 16 And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work. 17 He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants. 18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day. 19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us; 20 That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles. 21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he rehearsed them in the ears of the LORD.

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"Stealing, by definition, is illegal."
by EdHannigan / October 19, 2008 8:30 AM PDT
In reply to: Most people ...

So the state can do as it pleases and it's legal?

Wasn't the Holocaust "legal" under that definition?

Yes, you are most definitely missing something.

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Are you willing to give ...
by Kees Bakker / October 18, 2008 10:58 PM PDT
In reply to: When it's mine, Yes.

to a Muslim church also? Or only Roman Catholic or Protestant?

Kees

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(NT) what does that have to do with it?
by James Denison / October 18, 2008 11:26 PM PDT
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Not much. But who cares.
by Kees Bakker / October 18, 2008 11:28 PM PDT

We just try to take this thread south by changing the subject. Seems to work.

Kees

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(NT) congratulations then.
by James Denison / October 18, 2008 11:32 PM PDT
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(NT) You're welcome.
by Kees Bakker / October 18, 2008 11:35 PM PDT
In reply to: congratulations then.
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How about explaining, Kees...
by J. Vega / October 19, 2008 1:29 AM PDT

Kees, how about explaining for us what you meant by the words "lower class". If you believe in "classes", on what are they based?

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That's easy !!
by critic411 / October 19, 2008 1:42 AM PDT

"The workers control the means of production" etc

Those classes

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Socialism vs Capitalism
by James Denison / October 19, 2008 3:02 AM PDT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society.[1][2] Modern socialism originated in the late nineteenth-century working class political movement. Karl Marx posited that socialism would be achieved via class struggle and a proletarian revolution which represents the transitional stage between capitalism and communism.

Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital, and creates an unequal society. All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly, although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how, and to what extent this could be achieved.

Linguistically, the contemporary connotation of the words socialism and communism accorded with the adherents' and opponents' cultural attitude towards Religion. In Christian Europe, of the two, communism was believed the atheist way of life.
===========================================

They make capitalism too complicated in the wiki. It's simple. What's mine is mine, what's yours is yours, and if you want some of mine, make me a deal I can't resist. If there's something of yours I want, I'll pay the price that will remove it from you. If both of us like that arrangement we may decide to produce even more for others who will make us a deal we find acceptable. The part of government is to make sure the transfer of goods is honest, not by stealing, fraud, other such. Govt can also provide means for all parties, such as roads, rails, ports, etc. The advantage of a worker economy over a slave economy is you only need to pay the workers when they are actually working. In a slave economy, you provide even if slaves aren't working, which is sort of like welfare when no one's working. Failure to work in capitalism will result in poverty, which provides the desired impetus to work instead of slothfulness. Those who are truly unable to work can then be provided for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
Capitalism is the economic system in which the means of production are owned by private persons, and operated for profit[1] and where investments, distribution, income, production and pricing of goods and services are predominantly determined through the operation of a free market[2], rather than by central economic planning. Capitalism is usually considered to involve the right of individuals and corporations to trade, incorporate, employ workers, and use money provided by central banks, in goods, services (including finance), labor and land.[2] In theory, production and distribution in a capitalist system are governed by the free market rather than state regulation,[3] with state action confined to defining and enforcing the basic rules of the market[4] though the state may provide a few basic public goods and infrastructure.

The "capitalist mixed economy" is the main capitalistic system, where the state intervenes in market activity and provides some services. Other systems include laissez-faire, where the state plays a minimal role and anarcho-capitalism where the market and private enterprise are completely free from the state which is nonexistent. During the last century capitalism has been contrasted with centrally planned economies, such as Marxian economies.
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Obama is not going to cut spending
by Dragon / October 19, 2008 12:31 PM PDT

Obama said so, himself, though not in those exact words. I just wonder how he would respond to his own words...

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