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General discussion

MacBook to last 5 years

Jun 25, 2007 6:00AM PDT

I am going to be a senior in High school. My high school is requiring us to all purchase MacBooks. I would like this computer to last me 5 years - through college. I would like a 15 inch screen so I'm looking at the Mac Book Pro. Other than regular school work, I would like this computer for music and gaming. My biggest concern is picking out the right configuration to get through 5 years with a high perfoming computer. COuld you please tell me what you would buy if money wasn't the main consideration?

Thanks,

M.

Discussion is locked

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Treated well, yes they last that long. Even moreso if...
Jun 25, 2007 7:31AM PDT

You look at the new units with LED backlighting. That cured the issue of the screen dimming about year 3 (but we'll know for sure in 3 years.)

I know LEDs and the aging is nothing compared to CCFLs.

Bob

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Get a Mac if...
Jun 26, 2007 3:07PM PDT

... you are or you're planning to be thirty-something living with your mother, short, fat, balding, wear big round black plastic-framed glasses and polo shirts with large horizontal stripes, and go to cafes to use their free internet but not buy anything only because you want to update your startrek fansite or to watch videos of cross-dressing techniques on YouTube. j/k

Jokes aside, what sort of a school would force their students in to buying Macs or any other particular platform for that matter? Sounds like the IT adminstrator/advisor fits the description I gave earlier. I wish I could contact them and find out why they're doing it.

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There are a considerable number
Jun 26, 2007 9:58PM PDT

of schools that dictate the platform that their students should use.
Most of them go the Windows route with only a few advocating Macs.

If you were to contact the school and ask why, the answer would probably be:
it makes IT administration easier, It's the most popular platform (in the case of windows), Security (but they cannot explain that one), Mac's can't connect to our network (!), the software that we lease to students is all for Windows, IT just wants to support one platform (read IT has no idea how to deal with another platform and has no intention of learning).

Feel free to insert your own ridiculous answer in that list.

Students arriving with the "wrong" type of computer will find themselves having difficulty connection to the campus network, accessing course work and other such things. All with no support from IT.

Sad, but true

P

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Allow me to add something too...
Jun 27, 2007 5:40AM PDT

I've been a lecturer in the department of computer science and IT of one of the top technical universities in Australia and I still work there. Just wanted to share how we handle these things...

The IT services people in the department are hardcore unix fanatics but they still allow Windows and Mac users to connect to the network and use everything seamlessly. So, I know for certain that it can be done in a scale relevant to a school.

I just like to let you know that we do most of the teaching on unix, mainly because it gives a better feel of how a computer works than Windows or Mac OSes since it can be made to have zero distractions. Students are allowed to do their assignments on any platform they like but the final submission must work on the central unix servers. Even the commandline-only interface of unix is not hard at all for new students to learn, actually. I think younger students can learn it much more easily than anyone else. Also, learning to use any mainstream OS like Mac or Windows is hardly a challenge for anyone who understands unix.

Regarding your comment, "IT has no idea how to deal with another platform and has no intention of learning"... well IT people certainly do have strong opinions on what they use but if they're competent and the institution's management isn't made up of monkeys in suits with no commonsense, supporting multiple platforms isn't a problem today.

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I'm glad that I read your post.
Jun 27, 2007 6:04AM PDT

Here in the US I see the dying off of Unix in the universities along with the knowledge that comes with it. From what I'm seeing they are producing a lot of sheep.

I know what Aussies do with sheep (they eat them.)

You're on the right track so I encourage you to stay the course.

Bob

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lol
Jun 27, 2007 4:32PM PDT

Actually they even have advertisements on TV encouraging people to eat more and more lamb!

Anyway, I can't speak for all universities in Australia. There's a clear difference between the focus different unis put on the same type of degree. As I said in my second reply to mrmacfixit, Windows is important too. So, some unis just go with this flow but some try to do what's right (with core subjects) but allow the option to go with the flow (with electives).

Happy

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My Comment
Jun 27, 2007 10:54AM PDT

Was not directed at ALL IT departments but there are a considerable number of them around and you did throw in a couple of important "IF'" there.

As Bob noted, there are always the exceptions but a lot of departments have just become blinkered MS clones.

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression


P

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Ah yes...
Jun 27, 2007 4:18PM PDT

I didn't take any offense because you used the term "IT". I'm from computer science and its academic side and most of us don't think we're related to IT technicians who install programs and fix wires Happy I just said I'm from that department because we use a lot of IT services and equipment.

Yes, there is a tendency to go for Microsoft platforms and it's also a regional thing. We have undergrad students coming from countries such as India and they have only used Windows and Visual Studio to get their CS/IT degrees. The mainstream software engineering/application development focus in similar countries is probably the main reason for this.

Almost 30% of our machines are Windows PCs too and all the rest are terminals remotely connected to central Unix and Windows servers. Universities can't entirely focus on the science/theory side and ignore the Windows application development side because industry development tools/platforms like .NET require preparation too. And students expect to be employable right after graduation. Addressing this has become more important than having concerns about in-built security of OSes. We have firewalls and proxy servers for all incoming and outgoing traffic anyway, and also distributed (anti-virus/spyware) solutions for Windows machines.

Also, if any educational institution's going for a different platform other than Windows, they might as well go for Unix over Apple because it can be tailored to teach more (universal) concepts. Apple, on the other hand, is just another ever-changing consumer-level standalone platform that's running after families and individuals, just like Windows is, but without the same level of popularity.

Going for Unix/Linux is probably overkill for schools and so most of them must be going for the easier evil (of Windows).

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well... larger US campuses seem happily
Jun 28, 2007 7:15AM PDT
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UC Davis is known for which UNIX varient?
Jun 28, 2007 8:11AM PDT

It won't die there!

Bob

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Back to the original question
Jun 28, 2007 8:56AM PDT

This is an interesting discussion but can anyone help me on the original question I posted about the Mac configuration I should buy?

Thanks

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The MacBook Pro in 15 inch with LED backlight.
Jun 28, 2007 9:48AM PDT

Very nice.

Bob

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Simple...
Jun 28, 2007 6:42PM PDT

If you want something to last long, then get the most up to date configuration you can get your hands on... the more it has, the better! Happy

Sorry for delaying your responses

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Mac Longevity is a somewhat hidden plus
Jun 29, 2007 7:37PM PDT

My 800MHz iBook will be 5 year old this November, I'm now on my second (expensive) battery and THIRD motherboard (previous 2 replaced under Apple extended warent).

The laptop still runs the latest OSX 10.4.10, and just about manages Photoshop CS (The iBook has 640Megs of Ram - its maximum). For surfing, email, MS Office and regular student stuff the laptop is still just about keeping up with current technology.
DONT get a MacBook Pro just for Gaming..........it will just spoil your studying. Use the difference in price to Max the ram and treat yourself to an ESSENTIAL backup harddrive (or a few games).
Hardware reliability is an issue and things will fail just as a deadline approaches!

Yes I'm going to upgrade to a Macbook with 2Gb Ram in November but my point is Apples integrated Hardware&Software gives it better longevity than the Windows platform!
However if some has successfully installed Vista running on a 5 year old intel 800MHz PIII laptop..................................?

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If you know which schools
Jul 2, 2007 11:11AM PDT

you are interested in, go to their websites. They list which computers they recommend. The recommendation changes - updates - yearly, as the new sessions start... and new machines are released from the manufacturers.

I hate to say it, but if you REALLY want it to last that long, buy the top of the line model with the biggest hard drive and all the RAM that will fit. And in 4 years, the hard drive will be full and the RAM won't be enough. And after managing thousands of PCs and Macs that is ONE item I found common to both platforms.

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UC Davis is not known for a UNIX variant -
Jul 2, 2007 11:29AM PDT

(that would be UC Berkeley) but that was not the issue - the issue was that schools post their recommended configurations. All one needs to do is look. So, instead of asking us what should be purchased, query the schools that you are interested in... someone said all the schools want Windows OS - and I just don't find that to be the case. "ALL" of them don't. Most larger campuses (and I think UC Davis qualifies as "medium large" - but you can check any of the UC sites if you want) are cross-platform.

But if you don't like the UC campuses...
http://cio.osu.edu/communications/guide/student/hardware.html
http://www.gsd.harvard.edu/inside/computer_resources/manual/computers/yours/min_hardw_req.htm
https://hep.pa.msu.edu/twiki/bin/view/Computing/WebHome
http://gtcr.fsu.edu/topic-02.html
http://www.oit.duke.edu/comp-print/hardware/recommend.html

I could continue, but it was getting tedious...

And remember, they are recommended configurations if you want school IT support. If you are self-sufficient and comfortable in UNIX, go for it.

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You're right.
Jul 2, 2007 11:40AM PDT

Serves me right for thinking about some UC Davis UNIX geek friend of mine.

Bob

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Isn't "UNIX geek"
Jul 2, 2007 1:52PM PDT

redundant?

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IT ignorance
Jun 29, 2007 10:20AM PDT

I cannot believe there are people claiming to be IT folks who talk about buying UNIX versus Mac. Where hafve you been hiding the last 7 years or so if you don't know that Macs ARE running UNIX? Mac OSX uses Berkeley UNIX as its core, and so can run most UNIX programming, as well as those for Mac.

In addition, of course they can now run Windows on the new Intel machines.

No doubt this is why colleges might require their use?

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The missing point...
Jun 29, 2007 6:18PM PDT

... here is you don't need to commit to a single hardware manufacturer and all the bindings that come along with it if you're not forced in to buying Apple. Some of us don't care about making HH Steve Jobs the next L. Ron Hubbard. Some of us care about having a choice. Believe it or not... there are requirements that Apple devices can't fulfill. Also, unless people like the Apple machines for the way they look, why should they buy them to primarily run Windows or Linux? Also, as I said, Unix can be configured to make it less distracting for teaching purposes... which is the advantage of Unix that I was supporting.

There's a lot more to say here but your argument is old and argued too much...

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Appletology ?
Jul 3, 2007 4:23AM PDT

Where do I sign up?

Whoops, I guess I already did.

No regrets though!

Wink

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MacBook to last 5 years
Jun 29, 2007 10:15AM PDT

Dear M., Here is what I suggest--Purchase a MacBook, a 19" monitor and Bluetooth Apple keyboard and mouse. Hook up the monitor to the MacBook and close your MacBook as your CPU. When you wish to take your MacBook to class or where ever, simply unhook your monitor and proceed. It is a great combination and offers you every option. Walt

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Do not use your MacBook with the cover closed
Jun 29, 2007 11:57AM PDT

As my daughter and I were shopping for her laptop, I asked a "Genius" in an Apple store about operating the MacBook with an external monitor attached and the cover closed and he informed me that Apple does not recommend this. Some of the heat dissipates throught the top of the (open) MacBook. Running it with the cover closed may cause heat build up and might shorten the life of the computer.

I think that about the only major things that the MacBook Pro has over the MacBook would be the size of the monitor and the presence of a discreet video card rather than Intel Integrated video. The video card should improve your gaming experience. Of course, if you want a 15 inch screen in a laptop Mac, the Pro is your only choice.

My daughter bought the MacBook, because she wanted a small and light machine. Gaming is not an interest for her. We may get her an external monitor.

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Lid closed?
Jun 29, 2007 6:41PM PDT

How can you run a MacBook with the lid closed? mine just goes to sleep...

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Lid Closed
Jun 30, 2007 12:08AM PDT

Appartently, the MacBook will run with the lid closed if an external monitor is attached. At least this is what the people at the Apple Store told me.

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Ohhh....
Jun 30, 2007 4:49AM PDT

Oh, thanks for the info. I'll have to check that out.

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re: MacBook for 5 years
Jun 29, 2007 10:49AM PDT

If money really is not the main consideration, get the best Mac you can comfortably afford. However, don't expect it to last five years. Not that it will fall apart, but too much can happen in 5 years in the computer world - about three generations of computers worth. If you meant composing and performing music, you will need a better than average Mac. Upgrading a Mac can get expensive; more expensive than a PC laptop. Get additional RAM if you can afford it, but a larger hard drive isn't nearly as essential. If you are only using it for iTunes, it really won't matter and you might as well get a base MacBook. If you are heavily into gaming, you likely will end up also buying a PC notebook since a lot of games aren't available for Macs. If you still think you'll game a lot on the Mac, get a configuration with the better video card as it will be especially more important two years down the road. And don't forget that many laptops get lost, seriously damaged, or stolen in five years. Regardless, expect to use your MacBook for 3 years tops, unless you are in one of the few fields where computing power won't matter (Psych, English, Poli Sci, etc.).

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MacBook +5
Jun 30, 2007 2:47PM PDT

That asking a lot of your computer. In 3 years technology will change. I buy my kids computers and replace them every 2 years...sometimes 3 years, if they say nothing "new" is needed. Since they don't need the greatest and fastest (they aren't into graphic arts and aren't gamers), I get them the middle of the line computer/MacBook. One thing I always buy extra though is memory, as that single upgrade makes all the difference in the world (speed wise). Hope this helps.

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+5 is nothing
Jul 1, 2007 2:50AM PDT

I have always owned Macs. Right now I have a MacBook, an iMac, and a dual processor G4 that is about 10 years old. The G4 is running EXACTLY the same operating system as the 2 newer Macs with no problem. The only thing I can't do, is run Bootcamp, which allows you to run Windows in a native environment rather than emulated.

I recently went back to school and one of my required courses was a Microsoft course. The only program that I couldn't run on the Mac was Access. Not only did I get an A+ in the course, but a letter of recommendation from the professor. Plus she thanked me for opening her eyes to the fact that Macs will do anything you can do on a PC, especially now on the Intel Macs.

As far as price goes. When I bought the MacBook, I orignally bought a PC laptop, and had nothing but problems with it. After a week I returned it and got the MacBook. When it came down to it, the MacBook actually cost less since everything is already there. The wireless card, built in WebCam, Superdrive, etc.

So in the long run if you are buying new anyway, get the Mac. It will last longer, have less bugs and if the school INSISTS you run windows and you own a copy of it, no problam. You can run windows natively with either bootcamp or parallel. Plus there is another program out there whose escapes me right now that will allow you to run PC software on your Mac without running windows. I think it is called Crossover but I can't be sure of that.

Dollar for dollar, headache for headache, lifespan and ease of use, the Mac is by far the better choice and even if you don't need to upgrade a PC to meet what is already on a Mac the Mac will probably only cost you about $60 more at full retail. But since you are buying for a student, there is a place on Apple's website that allows you to register as a student and with that discount it is actually cheaper. If you want to save a little more. Keep your eyes on Apples's refurbished. They are sold with the same warranty, support and software as brand new. Actually most of them are brand new but because they were sold and returned cannot be sold as new. I bought a 1299 MacBook for 799 that way and there is no difference or way of telling that is refurbished except for the price and the invoice.

Hope that answers some of your questions in plain english. No geek speek, or IT speek, but as an everyday user.