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General discussion

MacBook Pro fails yet again

Jan 25, 2008 12:17PM PST

Bob, I think you were right on target, because Apple really botched the repairs, again. In fact, there seems to be no signs of repairs at all! For crying out loud, the papers I received last week said Redo Repairs or something. They didn't fix anything.
All the issues that I had spoken to the Geniuses about are still there. AirPort still drops everything... Keyboard is messed up, and the casing is still warped in multiple places. It's just like it was before last Friday, only now they scratched it up while shipping and its covered in dust and what appears to be smudges and marks... There are small things that resemble food crumbs lodged in some of the warped areas on the casing.

This is the third time that they have messed it up. It worked better before I took it to Apple. I'm extremely disappointed and will lose more time over this again. My iMac works better than that piece of junk.

What should I ought to do about this? Last time I was at the Genius Bar, they said they would "look into other options" if it continued to show problems. Well I have my problems still, with more screen shots to accompany them. Getting a new machine would probably solve all of this, but rumors of new Penryn Macs with the Air's track pad are discouraging me. Having a Penryn MacBook Pro could save me an hour of battery life, if some of those tests on those chips were accurate. It would really help to have a new model with a larger cache and a faster clock speed too. I plan to visit Apple either tomorrow or sometime soon, but I fear that may not solve anything.

Any recommendations on my next step? I guess that if I could get the Genius I talked to last time and make him hold up to his "promise to replace it", I'd be OK, but you never know.

-BMF

Discussion is locked

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Finally!
Jan 26, 2008 4:51AM PST

So I spent an hour and half today at Apple, and after speaking with a Genius and a manager, I now have a 2.4Ghz MacBook Pro with a 160GB HD. Unfortunately they said they do not carry the 2.6Ghz models and 250GB drives in the shop. I was offered to move up to a 17 inch model for the 2.6Ghz, but those are much too large for me. I'm glad to have gotten past all this...

Got some stand called an iFold and a WD 500GB drive. So far so good.
The Genius I talked to seemed to think that after 3 repairs, the Mac was fine and it was my network or possible interference that caused all of this, but I have nothing interfering with my router. Plus, all my other Wi-Fi devices work fine. My friends' MacBooks work fine on it too. My new replacement seems to be working properly, so I'm positive that it was the other Mac like I told the Apple employees.

So in what has been about a 2 month escapade, I've visited Apple for a total of 7 visits (8 if I count one trip I made to return an iPod accessory) until this was resolved. At least it's over. But now it seems that everyone wins...

Has anyone else had so much trouble with getting repairs?

-BMF

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Not exactly...
Jan 29, 2008 10:37AM PST

although I did get my new Mac this week. I was going to go for the MacBook, but since my current laptop will do fine for when I need to be on the move, I decided I'd save myself the cash and go... not so mobile. I love the Mac Mini. Hooked up to my widescreen monitor in 1680x1050 resolution it is awesome.

I did have a few teething problems. I tried installing Parallels and as I went to boot my ISO of Windows, it caused a KP. I rebooted, and it appeared from the report that Parallels was entirely at fault. Now, given it took me six BSODs when I first set up Windows on my old laptop, before realising Zonealarm messed it up, I didn't think I went too badly. I also couldn't get bootcamp to recognise my XP CD, but then again, it's not a totally legal version, and has been modified very heavily. In a last ditch attempt I tried VMware fusion, and I have been amazed. Windows, side by side my Mac, FAST and very stable - I am actually glad bootcamp failed on me as dual booting IS so last decade...

Finally, today, I tried running the software update and it was hanging on "configuring installation". I had heard of others having this problem too and when I manually downloaded the 10.5.1 updated, voila, all was sorted. Right now I am converting about 1000 music tracks from WMA to MP3 in Switch, so I can use them in iTunes. Once that's done, that's me, all sorted. I will continue to use my trusty old laptop which runs Windows XP and Puppy Linux, for when I go to my parent's house, college, etc.

The "transition" has not been a bumpy ride, but neither has it been smooth. Apart from the initial teething problems, I've been very impressed overall, and the Mac is VERY fast. Time Machine is godsend, and my external HD is plenty big enough. Backing up will never be the same again... mainly because I won't have to do anything. My iPod shuffle that I bought off a friend goes well with the rest of my white paraphernalia and overall I am very pleased. The Mac Mini is pretty good value for money - if you already have a decent monitor.

I managed to use my student discount to get the Mac Mini, and an Apple keyboard, for

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Yeah, the new Mac is working great
Jan 29, 2008 10:56AM PST

I only wish that the Apple Store had the 2.6Ghz and 250GB HD options in-store, but I got what they had. Now it seems that either my new router or my somewhat old modem have problems.
The new MBP works, but it does suffer from network problems like before, only this time it's different. I can tell this thing works because it worked for me at Apple. The machine it replaced failed to work on other networks, so...
My router seems to broadcast incorrect information from time to time, information that does not always match the info on my outdated modem. The modem performs fine when the router is disconnected, but the router is quite new, so I can't fathom what is going on. Manually setting some of my network settings on the Mac helped reduce the errors in Network Utility, but I think it still generated some errors after that... A friend is going to lend me a spare router so I can run tests on my network, and his, to see what's up. I'm really tired of dealing with all of this...

Besides my network troubles, congrats on the Mini. I considered buying one sometime before, but to upgrade it to my requirements proved to costly with a new monitor that I would need. I would rather get a new iMac.
Sorry to see the clamshell go. Those things were quite nice. But if it didn't work, oh well.
And to answer your last question, I am really happy about my new and updated MBP. Until the Penryn refresh that it expected soon, that is Wink. Oh will I feel unhappy then... If I can get my network up and running, I'll be good to go. I can't figure out if there's any interference around... All the things that I would suspect of causing anything don't seem to.

I wish I could take a MBA home, but I would definitely need a working iMac for that to help me at all. I'd rather not push anything like remote disk onto my G4. It handles enough as it is.
Seems that you are having a good time. I guess that Mini of yours justs hates MS, huh? Grin
-BMF

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Ha, I'd have said the same.
Jan 29, 2008 11:12AM PST

I wouldn't say it hates Windows... not now I shoved VMware down it's throat. LOL. Going from an underpowered laptop with a mobile processor and slow hard drive, at a resolution of 1024x768, to a C2D Mac Mini with a resolution of 1680x1050, not to mention a totally different system... has thrown me a bit. Like I said I am still getting used to it, but I do definitely like what I see. Safari is wonderful. Time Machine is a godsend. The fact that I can use all my Windows supported apps (and windows itself) right next to my Mac is great. Even some of my games run well in it. Which is IMPRESSIVE.

The very fact that the machine is around the size of a CD case is overwhelming, too. My desk is so tidy now.

The Apple keyboard is nice, I just hope it can put up with my furious finger-bashing. I am a very heavy typer. We shall see.

I am not too fussed about the MBA. I think it is too expensive - at least here in the UK. American prices are always cheaper...

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It is overpriced for something of its class, but
Jan 29, 2008 12:24PM PST

then again, most "ultra-portables" are it seems. It's quite interesting that your Mini is able to handle games very well even though it has integrated graphics. Impressive, Apple. I like the new Apple keyboards, but the keys are hard to type on since they're flat now... I like the style of it, but it seems more suited to the MacBook where the new keyboards were derived from.

I heard that running games on a MacBook with minimal graphics settings works pretty well. I'm guessing that you're running games under the Windows side. Considering the Mini is not as powerful as the rest of the Mac family, that IS a feat indeed. My old MBP used a nice ATI card. It was amazing, and I can't wait to put my new MBP to action with its newer Nvidia card.

The Air would never work as a standalone product, so it would only make sense to buy it if you already have a powerful desktop. I currently do not have one, so I wouldn't be able to use it too much. Plus, my MBP has a lot more power and packs more features. I would probably commute between the MBP and a desktop instead. Though it doesn't hurt to have two notebooks... I like the MBA a little, but for the same price as the higher-end one, I could get a much more powerful MBP... If I had two of those, well, I could do anything on-the-go whenever I wanted to, LOL. Again, I doubt I'll be able to use my MBP as much as I used to (or even more) until I can get my network fixed. I've tried a lot of things, but I've had no luck. I wish now that I had waited for the Time Capsule before I bought my new router, but I didn't anticipate more issues nor did I think I would need a Time Capsule. At least I have a new external since I filled my other one up already. FW800 is great.

-BMF

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Actually, I don't think it is.
Jan 29, 2008 12:30PM PST

The Mac Mini in my opinion is just about the ONLY Mac produdct that is NOT overpriced. It's graphics memory goes up to 224MB if I am not mistaken, whereas the MacBook only goes up to around 140MB. At least that is what I have heard. Also, really the only difference between the Mac Mini and MacBook is lack of screen and keyboard - and I don't think that justifies the doubling in price in the MacBook's case. For what it is... the MacBook IS overpriced, and all you have to do is compared specs. Maybe the Proc is good, but the RAM amount and Hard Drive amount is poor, for the price.

The games I am/was running are oldschool games, so don't get too excited. That said, given Windows is under emulation, it is rather impressive. The only thing that needs fine tuning is the mouse sensitivity.

Apart from that, the Mac Mini makes a wonderful base unit computer.

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I meant that the Air was too expensive
Jan 29, 2008 12:48PM PST

though some could argue that the Mini is a tad overpriced. But it is a Mac that performs better than its Windows counterparts, no? I hope that I didn't disrespect your Mini, LOL.

That's surprising that you say the Mini could get more video memory than a MacBook. Both are made from laptop components yet the MacBooks have faster chips. Maybe it's a drawback...

You know, I've heard that some Minis can be over clocked and modified into more powerful machines.
-BMF

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Perhaps...
Jan 29, 2008 9:27PM PST

Overclocking isn't really my style... I am however going to mod my Medion laptop though.

As for performing better than Windows counterparts... I agree memory management in OS X is probably better than Windows, and they are certainly faster in many ways, but I still got love for Windows Wink

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But you have to admit
Jan 30, 2008 6:42AM PST

Apple has done a better job. XP is definitely useful for most people, but Vista was not much of an upgrade. That's just XP with a new look and better security Wink. LOL. Memory management is better, like you said. Good for the Mac Pro users, who can now use up to 32GB of RAM (!!!).
I know there are a few people in the world who could actually use a lot of horsepower and multitasking capabilities, but 8 Xeon cores and 32 GB of RAM? That's probably too much for most professional editors and graphics designers.

Modding a laptop? Unless you really need to, I don't see the point. Makes a good hobby... Laptops are harder to upgrade in most cases.

-BMF

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I disagree.
Jan 30, 2008 7:28AM PST

Win Vista is really nothing like XP. A lot of the code has been completely rewritten, the security model completely and utterly revamped (although I won't deny that UAC is a very poor implementation of similar methods of authentication used in Unix, Linux, Mac OS) and the driver model is now completely different. Can't remember what it's called tho.

I just don't need or want to upgrade to Vista because all the hardware I have at the moment would probably need upgrading, plus, all my apps are fine on XP and so there is no real need to upgrade.

As for Mac Pros and all that power... the only reason 32GB of RAM seems great is because Microsoft 32 bit OSes are limited to 4, but there are PCs that were able to take more RAM, before the Mac Pro...

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I like XP, and I know they're different
Jan 30, 2008 10:03AM PST

Right now I've been optimizing my wired PC with all sorts of stuff. Installed Safari, QT, WMP 11, and I finally organized a few files that were laying around. I've made it more Apple-esque without installing a dock. I don't see why anyone would want to though, since the task bar can be changed to act in a similar manner.

I knew that some machines could handle over 2GB pretty well. It's not just the Pro that has a lot of power. I was just saying that most people who would use a similar workstation would be unable to taken advantage of a full set of 32GB of RAM. They might be able to, if they were running every Mac app ever developed Wink. That would be pretty cool to watch on multiple screens.

Earlier I powered my MBP on and was surprised that it joined my network and started working appropriately. I was trying to post here about it but when I clicked Submit, the "server went down" or something and all the problems just started up again... It was working right with the correct settings from the router for a change with no errors, and I was really disappointed that it quit on me. The modem works fine by itself, I think, so I really think that this router may have problems, even if I just bought it. I knew I should have bought an AirPort Station. Then I could take more advantage of sharing and whatnot.

-BMF

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I like
Jan 31, 2008 1:21AM PST

I like how they have integrated an Airport Base Station with a hard drive to make time capsule. Why don't you get one of those? That's your internet and your backup taken care of.

Your router sounds like a piece of crap...

Oh and speaking of wireless, I was pleasantly surprised when i set up my Mac Mini in my dorm room to find it displaying a range of remote computers in the Finder. Although file sharing is off (being in a dorm room, I made SURE of that), for a time, Bluetooth was still on. So I was seeing all these computers from godknows where. I couldn't connect to any of them though, however, I could listen to someone's shared library from iTunes. But, I have plenty of my own music and I am not one to take security lightly, so Bluetooth just recently went off.

While I am at it... I might as well ask your opinion on spaces? I can't stand it... and I've gone and disabled it as well. Expose however, I find myself using on an hourly basis.

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Spaces is OK
Jan 31, 2008 10:51AM PST

My router shouldn't be bad, since I paid quite lot for it, but it seems to be the problem. I've already restored it to factory defaults. It's all boxed up now and I may return it. I tried plugging it into other phone ports with the modem and though I managed to get it working for a short period of time, it eventually quit working again. I don't know what has been going on. Seems that the laptop can't get a valid IP address. Sometimes it will self-assign one which is no good, and even when it gets the right one, it still fails to work. This gives Network Utility a whole lot of problems. Odd that the ping test and speed tests are working right.

I'd get a Time Capsule, but for $300, it's too expensive. I just bought a WD My Book for the FireWire 800 capability. Not only is it very fast, but it already has 500GB that I can use for backups. I'm going to reformat my other external and use it for sharing files between my computers, which I will probably hook up to an AirPort Base Station that I may have to get. I could attach my USB hub and use everything off of it, but then my 500GB drive will be slower to connect to... and I'd rather not have my backup data available over a wireless network. Still, a Time Capsule would be nice...
The modem works by itself, so I'm wondering if there's something interfering with the router which causes it to send incorrect data. But I have looked around and moved everything all over the place with no luck. It could be the modem or not. I don't know, I can't figure out the source of the problem.

Anyway, Leopard is great but things like Spaces can get in the way. Spaces is OK, but it takes too long to set it up for use. It's a lot quicker to just click on an app or manually switch between them with the keyboard. It, and a lot of eye-candy, happen to be in OS X now, but it works nicely. If Apple would put some categorization into Spaces (for organizing applications by type: Music, Internet, etc.) there would be some more use for it. Stacks is a good feature, and I do like the new Finder. I haven't had a problem with the OS itself. It's definitely nicer than Tiger, but that may be because Leopard has been scripted to work on Intel Macs better, I believe.

-BMF

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Interesting...
Jan 31, 2008 11:14AM PST

Yes, the new finder is indeed glorious. Coverflow in folders doesn't grab me though. The new dock is fantastic and stacks is very useful to me. Now that I am running the OS on a 1680x1050 monitor (native res), it feels odd when i pick up my laptop which is @ 1024x768 native.

I must say, Mac OS X is a very good multitasking OS. When I had Panther on my piece of crap (sorry, had to be said) iBook, not only was it horrendously unstable for an OS based on UNIX, but it was clunky and the screen was too small for most things to work right. Expose was a pain to use and I don't even know why I ran photoshop on that thing. Now, on my Intel Mac, I find myself having one finger almost permanently over the F3 button, expose-ing and finding my apps. It's funny, it does matter right now that on my Mac my desktop is Choc Full of Windows, because the Window Management system is so much more effective. On Windows I'd be pretty much lost right now, the way my desktop is. Even Linux (without Beryl) doesn't really offer any great options to manage all yer crap.

I think size is a big factor though. This monitor was definitely a good buy and having the speakers in the back, as well as 20 inches of screen space, saves space, in the long run, and makes me more productive. Someone once said, in another forum, Macs may be expensive, but the work they do pays them off many times over. I am beginning to see that now. Even my little mini is mind blowingly efficient.

On another note, I am sorry to hear about your wireless. My friend had internet trouble as well, and I personally think his router was to blame. That and the fact that his parents didn't value the importance or password protecting it. They went out and bought a new ISP subscription. I hope for their sakes it fixes the problem...

I hope everything works out for you in the long run...

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I wish I could fix it
Jan 31, 2008 12:26PM PST

but I guess the only way to do that would be to say goodbye to both the modem and the router. It could be the service, but I really don't know. If it would just work I would be in great shape, but sadly, I am behind in some stuff that I really need to get done and I need wireless connectivity to work on it.

Hopefully this can get fixed before Monday. I really don't think that the router is to blame, considering it is new and is doing kind of what the router before it did before it broke. That would mean that the modem is bad or there is something screwing up my signal. I have no idea which could be true. I've looked into a lot of things that I would normally try to get it to work, but none of them have in this case. We shall see.

BTW, I really love the Santa Rosa MBPs. Considering the fact that a MBP refresh is a due, I intend to look into getting a 17-inch model with a Penryn chip (or whatever the current technology will be) sometime in the distant future (perhaps in a year or two). I would get an iMac, but portability really helps me and the 17-inch would serve as a better desktop replacement than my current one. I could just take out the battery Grin. It's a huge Mac anyway and packs a punch. I also heard that the hi-res screen is amazing. But I keep dreaming... Whatever my next machine will be, it won't replace my current MBP. It'll be an expensive accessory, like the Air, LOL.

-BMF

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Hmm...
Jan 31, 2008 6:24PM PST

the resolution on those 17 inch MacBook Pro's is the same as my 20.1 inch Xerox monitor: 1680x1050.

I find that makes everything on screen far too small. Plus, a 17 inch laptop in my mind is rather large anyway. Also, the MacBook Pro's price is unjustified, to be honest, as are most Apple products. I am just lucky to have squeezed every last drop out of my student discount, and bought a machine that was cheap to begin with...

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Depends
Feb 1, 2008 6:01AM PST

Apple could lower their prices to make everyone happy, but I don't think that's the point. Some could argue that the Mini is a few hundred bucks more than other competitors' models.
If I were to get a 17-inch MacBook Pro, I'd get the hi-res screen, which is 1920x1200. The standard screen is what is similar to your monitor. That's what it says on the display info on Apple's store.

When you think about it, Apple really isn't too expensive, but they are not cheap either. Take the high-end Dell XPS laptop, which you could say rivals the MBP. Upgrade it to be more powerful than the MBP and you end up paying a lot more than the MBP. At least that is what I got when I did. Many people think Apple products are expensive because everyone else offers low-end machines at lower prices that can be configured to match an Apple machine. You just have to know where to look.

And AMD machines don't count. Apple uses Intel chips that outperform AMD's offerings. Plus AMD machines tend to be cheaper than their Intel counterpart. But that's how I see it Wink.

-BMF

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Had a friend come over to look at my network problem
Feb 1, 2008 8:39AM PST

He knows his stuff. Working with Windows boxes is his thing and he's great at it. He doesn't deal with Macs but he did help me change around a lot of settings on the router, modem, and my wired PC that I hadn't touched. Nothing fixed the problem. It appears that my router just won't talk to the modem, so I'm going to return it sooner or later. Then I guess I better get an AirPort Extreme Station to replace that. And if I still have issues, the modem will go as well.

I would prefer to have a fiber optic connection, but apparently my area does not have that available. Verizon is always welcome to dig everything up and install it...
Why doesn't everything work out of a box like that old Mac commercial said? Then we wouldn't have any problems. Too bad it doesn't work like that.

-BMF

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Hold that thought...
Feb 1, 2008 11:57AM PST

Had another friend come over and he changed some settings around too... So far the network is working, but Safari stalls and gives me trouble. I downloaded FireFox and it can load everything much quicker.

Right now, Safari will not load Yahoo! or Engadget yet FireFox does and so does my wired PC.

Is it possible that a router can reject a different type of browser?

-BMF

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Renewed DHCP lease
Feb 1, 2008 12:15PM PST

and deleted two extra DNS numbers that I used before... so far it works...

Safari does run correctly from time to time. Why doesn't it just work? It keeps going back and forth.

-BMF

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Wow, it's been working
Feb 1, 2008 1:10PM PST

I hope I don't jinx it or anything! Download speeds are good enough and it has been working now everytime I open Safari, Firefox, and it's currently downloading Steve's past two keynotes from MacWorld, which have not stopped at all. They're chugging along, but they're both around a gig, so it'll take awhile... But I finally have everything up and running, it appears. I also got a little bit of work done, which is something new since theses troubles began Silly.

I don't think I could appreciate Windows machines more. My friend brought over his Dell and helped me troubleshoot. I think he does networking stuff for a living... But he got it working. XP is most definitely a great system to have, if your machine can use it well Happy.
Saves me a trip to the Apple Store, but they probably wouldn't want to see me again. The Geniuses are starting to remember me. There's always the other two stores in the area... LOL. Hopefully I won't have to go back to the Genius Bar anytime soon.

-BMF

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Just an update...
Feb 3, 2008 9:45AM PST

While it works with no errors reported, my MBP does drop the signal occasionally, particularly when I leave it idle for 30 seconds or so. I'm bound to replace my networking hardware sooner or later. Still, at least I have something to work with...

-BMF

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How about a video?
Feb 1, 2008 8:48AM PST
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Can't make one now
Feb 1, 2008 9:14AM PST

cause I get a working one Grin now. Last thing to do is scrap my current router (and maybe the modem) and I'll be good to go, hopefully.

I did think of making a video on it at one point, but I decided not to. Would have taken too much time.

-BMF