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Question

Macbook 13" black keyboard issue

Apr 30, 2012 6:34AM PDT

I have a black 13" Macbook, circa 2006 (1,1) with 10.6.8. The keyboard has been behaving oddly for weeks (mostly things like curcor jumping when I rest my hands on the case, and intermittent problems with the track pad) Now, suddenly the keyboard has gone cuckoo. Some keys will make the cursor jump; some will replace text; others will work normally. Have not found a pattern yet, if there is one. I was thinking that the keyboard might need replacing, but after restart everything works fine for awhile. Also, the external mouse is not working properly either. The wired mouse is connected via an external usb hub. An external keyboard works fine, and I'm about to try a different mouse, just in case the mouse issue is unrelated. The working after restart seems to point to a software issue, no? The period of normal after restart seems to be getting shorter, however. Still, I hate to replace the keyboard if it's really something else.

Discussion is locked

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Answer
No.
Apr 30, 2012 6:44AM PDT

It only means that it could be heat related.

Let me start with the usual first question and see where that leads us.

Are you performing your usual canned air cleaning every 6 months?

(Most treat laptops like bricks and rarely know why this maintenance is required.)
Bob

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Yes I did know!
Apr 30, 2012 8:48AM PDT

As a matter of fact, I do clean the keyboard regularly, and blow it out with canned air. Now that you mention it, I'm wondering if the last blow-out might have caused something to happen. Heat related is a good idea. I noticed recently that the problem is worse when more heat is generated. The fan seemed to be going a lot lately, and the worst was this weekend when I had been watching an online video (fan kicked in a lot on that one.) If it is heat related, does that signal that a keyboard replacement will not solve? Any other tests I can perform to help narrow down the cause and a solution? Thanks.

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But this makes me worry.
Apr 30, 2012 8:59AM PDT

You write the keyboard but what the vents? And then we have the work we do after a few years such as replacing the heat sink compound inside the machine.

Sorry but I have yet to see the canned air create an issue. There are folk that fret about blowing dust deep inside the machine but we have to listen to them and then tell them that professional service is needed for their machines.

If you want to try another keyboard, try some Apple external keyboard.
Bob

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More info, please
Apr 30, 2012 11:38PM PDT

Glad to hear about rarity of blown air causing problems. Did not know about vents, nor about replacing "heat sink" which may well be my issue, since heat seems to cause problems. BTW, am using external Apple keyboard and mouse, but tried other keyboards, too. All keyboards work, and all mice start to stick on click after awhile. Meaning I can't unselect something once it gets stuck; have to restart. Thanks for all help!

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Further...
May 1, 2012 12:08AM PDT

Battery is swollen; more sign of heat issues? It was replaced in Dec. 2010 under warranty. Replacing heat sync seems complicated (I looked it up) but I have replaced hard drive. Is it DYI? Any idea of cost if not? Tx.

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If the battery is swollen
May 1, 2012 12:37AM PDT

If the battery is swollen, that can cause pressure on different components inside the rest of the laptop, as well as being a safety hazard that could explode and dump hot battery acid in your lap at literally any moment.

First order of business is to get rid of the battery, and see if that resolves the issue. If not, it's possible that the battery caused flexing of the MLB, and on a unit that old, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it caused a few solder joints to go intermittently cold right around the top case connection port, which isn't far from the battery compartment.

The other problem with Bob's advice on these style MacBooks, is that getting the top case off is a major PITA. If you do attempt it, just remember to pay VERY close attention to where the screws came from, because they are all different sizes. There are also two screws on the side of the unit by the battery, which do not need to be removed. The only thing they do is hold on this annoying little metal piece that the front left corner of the top case will invariably get caught on and elicit some choice four letter words as you try and extract it without bending things up too much. PC makers tend to use all one type and size of screw, whereas Apple loves to mix it up. Put screws back in the wrong location on these models, you may never get them back out again short of physically breaking the top case.

But before you do all that, if you have any splintering of the top case, like along the front edges where the hell of your palms would rest, then you should be able to get Apple to replace the top case for free. I'd suggest throwing a little business at a local AASP though, since they get shafted by Apple coming and going. In this particular case, they can give a bit of a shafting back to Apple, and you're helping support a small local business which is always good. The money stays in the local community instead of going to some tax dodge shell company large corporations have set up all over the world. Apple's is in Nevada BTW, and I have a strong suspicion that's also why they have a Houston, TX office. Two states known for their low corporate tax rates.

In any case, start by removing the battery, see if that helps improve things at all. If not, then check the ifixit site to learn how to get the top case off, disconnect the top case, short the power pads on the MLB with an external keyboard and mouse connected and see if the problems persist. If yes, you may as well buy a new laptop because it's a minimum of $300 to get that one fixed if it hasn't hit vintage status at which point the cost just pretty much doubled and only if you're in California. Either way, that thing probably isn't even worth $300 anymore, so may as well put that money towards a new computer. If the problems go away, then you just need a new top case which is about $80US for the part, and then whatever labor charges might be. That one would seem borderline worthwhile given the age of the unit.

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Ouch.
May 1, 2012 12:45AM PDT

That's not good and can cause issues. Batteries are short term affairs if folk use the battery. Some models were good for 300 cycles, 18 months and we are there in that range where the battery could be too old. But swollen means it's gone.

I see JG has written more about this too.
Bob

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Remove Battery?
May 1, 2012 2:35AM PDT

Do you mean take the battery out and run with just AC power, or replace the battery altogether?

Sounds like things are more serious than I had suspected. I did check ifixit and yes, there are a lot of screws to take out to replace top case or heat sink.

Not sure what is meant by this: "disconnect the top case, short the power pads on the MLB with an external keyboard and mouse connected and see if the problems persist."

I do have a splintering of the top case. Would Apple replace the top case on a computer this old? Would that even be a complete solution? I'm in NW Arkansas, not far from Fayetteville, where there is an AASP. The cost of diagnosis is about $130, and labor/parts on top of that.

So I'm thinking new laptop may be a better investment. Is it possible to get a refurb with warranty? Would prefer Snow Leopard. Lion does not play well with some of my current software and also my university's networking, and even though this is a personal computer, I take it to work from time to time.

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Sorry but these models are
May 1, 2012 2:42AM PDT

"Highly integrated" machines. Unlike the other machines I know of, the battery may be part of the system and required for it to work properly.

As to the question if Apple will do this or that, you do have to ask them!
Bob

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If the splintering
May 1, 2012 3:04AM PDT

If the splintering isn't along the left or right edges, like by the port array or ODD slot, then it's covered under a special extended warranty and the AASP shouldn't be able to charge you for it. Of course the blackbooks require the top case go back, and so AASPs have to be a bit more careful about following the extremely specific rules Apple has about those. If it were a white Macbook, typically it's a 922 part, meaning no part return required, and so there's really no verification on Apple's part.

After getting rid of the battery, and yes it will run just fine on only AC power, I would have the top case replaced if it's going to fall under that extended warranty program. If the local AASP doesn't know, tell them they need to mark the CompTIA code as Z07 which will show up as something like MB Top Case Splintering in GSX. Then if it doesn't show up as Quality Program for part coverage, mark it for review and get SPS on it. The AASP will get about $30 in labor from Apple for doing this repair, so for all intents and purposes, the unit would be under warranty for this issue.

There was some kind of lawsuit involving the splintering of top cases and this is how Apple settled it basically. Also, if you go to the AASP, make sure to tell them there's an unofficial extended repair program for unibody macbooks with hairline cracks along the hinges. TSPS will issue CS Codes for that if you send them photos. And anyone who may be reading this that works at an AASP is also welcome to use that information. Pretty easy $100 labor, and if you know how to work the system, you can stack it with other repairs, since CS Codes don't count against FTF or REPTAT, just KBBTAT. So you can do one repair under LI, APP, or QP, then another repair under CS Code, and get labor for both. That will be complete gibberish to pretty much anyone who has never worked as an ACMT, and even some who have, so don't worry if it makes no sense. It's just there so that any ACMT or AASP happening by can learn how to game Apple's labor reimbursement system because Apple has annoyed me sufficiently to start sharing a few loopholes and whatnot in Apple's system that I have come across.

If you can get the top case replaced for free, it's worth a shot, but if that doesn't solve the issue then you may as well buy a new laptop.

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Better w/o Battery
May 1, 2012 11:34PM PDT

I'm now running with the battery out, and so far keyboard and mouse are behaving normally. If the normalcy keeps up, does this indicate that a new battery may solve the issue? The splintered case is on the right side of the front, just under my right wrist. So I will contact my local AASP and see about the top case replacement. Worth a try. Thanks for letting me know about that, and for the details involved. Will keep posting with updates.

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What that means
May 1, 2012 11:50PM PDT

What that means, is the swelling battery was putting pressure on the MLB, which in turn was causing problems. You can always cross your fingers and hope for the best, but you may well have already done permanent damage that will eventually come back.

You have a very old model blackbook, and there are just certain realities about electronic components as they age. One of them is that they dry out and become brittle, so any little bit of flexing might cause cracks in the solder joints that bridge the connection between components and the PCB. That means signals either don't get transmitted or are erratic, and once that damage is done it's pretty much irreversible. If you're a good enough hand with a soldering iron to get in to some of those tiny little joints you can try reflowing the solder, but considering those were designed to be done by a machine with precision well beyond that of a human, you'd probably end up just bridging two pins and making the problem worse. You'd also need to know which joint(s) went bad, and that would probably require access to an x-ray scanner, which isn't something you find in the average person's garage. And if you didn't understand what I meant when I said short the power pins on the MLB, then odds are you have no experience with soldering worth mentioning. So as far as you're concerned, the damage is permanent and cannot be fixed short of a new MLB.

Let this be a lesson for any future laptops you may buy. If the battery starts swelling, get it taken care of IMMEDIATELY! Do not pass go, do not collect $200, go directly to the nearest repair shop (if you can't remove it yourself) and get it taken out. The longer the battery is left connected the more time it has to do damage to the rest of the computer and the more likely it is to explode on you without warning (technically the swelling is your warning). So unless a lap full of hot battery acid is your idea of a good time, get it taken care of immediately.

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Replacement Battery?
May 2, 2012 10:34PM PDT

The macbook is running completely nromally without the battery, so it may be that I caught it in time before damage was done to other components. When you remark above to "get it taken care of" I assume you mean to replace the swollen battery with a new one. If so, what is the best resource? Apple does not have a great reputation when it comes to battery quality. Are any aftermarket brands reliable?

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Replace it or don't
May 2, 2012 11:12PM PDT

Replace it or don't, that's up to you. Just make sure to dispose of the battery quickly after it starts swelling. Buy it from whomever you like, if you replace it at all, just remember that batteries do not last forever, and not to ignore it when it starts showing signs of distress.

And Apple doesn't make those batteries. Pretty sure they contract that out to Sony, who does batteries for the likes of Dell and anyone else who had a problem with exploding batteries a few years back.

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Answer
PS. Be sure to put the battery somewhere safe.
May 3, 2012 3:30AM PDT

It's in some failure mode and while the chances of something bad happening is so rare, I would not store it next to the kindling and gas cans.
Bob

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Where?
May 3, 2012 6:56AM PDT

I just assumed I would have to dispose of it, but not sure how to do that safely.

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Lots of places
May 3, 2012 10:56AM PDT

Lots of places will do this now. Radio Shack, last I checked will do it, Best Buy has a set of bins at pretty much all their stores AFAIK. The local dump will probably also take them for a small handling fee.