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Resolved Question

Mac user: Need advice shopping for Windows computer

Apr 23, 2014 12:06PM PDT

I need a Windows computer for a designated work computer, and it HAS to have a dedicated video card. I want an i7 processor and 8 gigs of RAM. Due to the nature of my work, it also has to have a backlit keyboard...easy enough, right? WRONG

I have looked at all sorts of models from different manufacturers and I cannot find a single one that is consistently reviewed high enough for my liking without going over my $900 budget. Mac on the other hand, all of their stuff has 4.5 stars with thousands of reviews posted. People always tell me I paid way too much for my Mac, but ya know what? I can't seem to find a comparable Windows option without coming damn close to the price of a Mac, and when I bought the Mac I didn't have to sift through tons of horrible naming systems like "Series GE model C10" to find the right model for me, only to find it gets horrible reviews on reliability. I understand the bad experiences are going to stick out more often than good ones, and every model is prone to issues, but I just can't seem to find Mac reliability and quality in a computer under $900.


So...am I looking in the wrong place? I need help! I was looking at three brands that everyone seemed to recommend: Lenovo (I like the Y410P...but I saw quite a few reliability complaints), Asus, and MSI. Am I overlooking some good machines under $900 from other brands? If anyone can recommend some models for me to check out I would GREATLY appreciate it!


Please give me your advice.

Discussion is locked

freem221 has chosen the best answer to their question. View answer

Best Answer

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So are you looking only at laptops?
Apr 24, 2014 10:39AM PDT

So are you looking only at laptops? If you are, anything where you need an i7, 8GB of RAM and discrete graphics means that it'd be better suited to a desktop. Those kinds of specs mean either gaming or photo/video editing, all of which is pretty much guaranteed to kill a laptop within a 18 months.

Also, speaking as someone who spent about 3 years as a professional Apple repair tech, along with Dell and Toshiba and a few others here and there... Apple's reliability is no better or worse than anyone else's. However, Apple does make it next to impossible these days to upgrade any of their laptops. First you need a specialty screwdriver, then you find that the CPU, GPU and RAM are all soldered directly to the logic board. The next unwelcome surprise is the proprietary SSDs they use, meaning the one thing you can actually upgrade costs more. Oh and the battery is now glued to the bottom case and is one unit essentially. Where Apple gets you is on peddling their extended warranties, same as any other computer maker/seller and if you think the average laptop repair bill is steep, you haven't seen anything yet. A new logic board for a MacBook Pro can cost more than a brand new unit at retail. Plus Apple has illegally divided up the repair business between its own retail stores and Flextronics, which runs its repair depots. Apple actively bullies and flat out abuses any smaller "authorized" repair shop that poses even the tiniest of threats to any of its retail stores. I was on the receiving end of it for about 3 years. One of Apple's middle management types apparently seemed to think that I worked for Apple, not the company signing my paycheck and got rather tetchy when I told him to stop ordering me around like I was his subordinate.

I would personally recommend getting a nice desktop. The Dell XPS 8700 would probably fit your needs quite nicely and right around your budget range too. I just upgraded to an 8700 after my previous 8100 served me very faithfully for about 4.5 years. It's now my ridiculously overpowered HTPC. If you absolutely must have a laptop, it doesn't really matter what you pick, it'll be dead in about a year. It's just simple physics colliding with unrealistic consumer demands. Consumers want laptops that are thinner, lighter and faster. The first two mean shrinking the size of the chassis, which when coupled with the additional heat generated by the third, leaves said heat little room to expand. So you get these big pockets of hot air just sitting around slowly baking your internal components until the solder joints dry out, crack and start causing all kinds of fun. PC makers tend to skimp on the fans, Apple deliberately throttles the fans to cut down on noise. D@mned if you do, d@mned if you don't basically.

Clever and enterprising people can figure out how to use a cheap netbook or chromebook type computer to act as a remote terminal to a much more powerful desktop. Which can work surprisingly well for anything that isn't gaming.

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Laptops mainly
Apr 24, 2014 3:07PM PDT

Hi, thanks a lot for the big response! Some very good information from a credible perspective.

I'm mainly looking for a laptop for this reason: I need it to use as a mobile DJ / karaoke computer and the programs I use recommend a dedicated video card. So if you don't run it on a machine with dedicated graphics, any problem you have they just blame on that. The old computer I ran karaoke with occasionally died in a car accident. I would also like to use it for occasional processing of large file size photos I take with my Canon T3i as it's difficult to go through them and view / edit them with any speed on my Mac. Another reason I want the higher specs is so it doesn't go outdated in a year or so, and so I have more options with multitasking / workstation with multi-monitors should I need it.

Right now I'm really sold on the y410p and y510p by Lenovo. They seem to be an excellent value for HDD+SSD, i7, and 8GB RAM. Most of the problems that I've researched with it seem to be software based, which I hope Windows 8.1 solved. There are a few hardware complaints that to me are irrelevant. ex: When changing settings to "Do nothing" when laptop is closed, the screen interferes with the touch pad causing it to click everywhere and open programs. I don't use that setting, and if I did I could just turn off the touchpad. The only other hardware problem I found was complaints of the wireless card but I like the model with the newer card and 24gig SSD cache.

Do you have any input on that model or know anything about it? Any other models you would suggest?

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The biggest problem I have with Lenovo
Apr 24, 2014 11:21PM PDT

The biggest problem I have with Lenovo is that they do the whole "slightly different model every six months" thing and that kind of production model is very incompatible with keeping around a lot of warranty parts. It could be done, but usually the rationale behind rapid release is that you aren't sitting on a huge inventory of parts, so it at least looks better from an accounting standpoint and to potential investors. To potential customers however, particularly those who might buy a unit on clearance somewhere, it's pretty much the exact opposite of what you want.

Also, I will just toss this out there. I've only worked on one Lenovo laptop and it was very shortly after IBM sold its computer business to Lenovo, so it's possible it was an IBM design. In any event, someone asked me to look at it, and after finally getting the thing open, which was a chore in and of itself, I noticed that some bright spark had scotch taped the wifi antenna cables to the CPU heatsink. This had been done at the factory, since it's easy to tell whether or not a unit has been disassembled before just based on the torque needed to loosen the screws. Forget the interference you could get coming off the CPU that would mess with the wifi signal, if things get too hot the shielding around the cable will melt and then the cable itself will heat up and transfer some of that back right to the wifi card.

Based on what I personally witnessed happening when I worked as a repair technician with companies that adopt this kind of model is this: Say you buy a model on closeout somewhere and it's already about a year since the company released that model, irrespective of how old that particular unit may be. Six months later something breaks, so you take it somewhere to get fixed under warranty. The repair place diagnoses, let's say a motherboard failure due to a bad set of capacitors. Completely valid warranty claim. Repair shop will put in an order for the part and the order will sit and sit and sit until finally the repair shop follows up to find out what the hold-up is. They'll be told that there are no motherboard units in stock for that model and then be told that the company will special order one for about a 300% markup.

I very vividly remember the mini-rampage my old supervisor went on when Acer pulled pretty much that exact stunt. It was for some desktop model with a failed video card. Even when the model was brand new, it was a mid-range video card at best and would have never retailed for more than $250. When this was all going on, it was probably worth about $100 retail. At the time If memory serves that unit was still under manufacturer warranty, which is why when Acer came back saying they'd sell us a new video card for like $400 my supervisor kind of lost it. I don't have any direct evidence that Lenovo does the same thing, but it's the kind of thing that tends to go hand-in-hand with how Lenovo produces units.

The above example is why I tend to stick with Dell and Toshiba for laptops. Dell is second only to Apple, and then only just, when it comes to warranty service. They are very easy to work with on the service side of things, they stock parts for about 5 years for every model and will usually dispatch repair parts within 48-hours with 2nd day delivery. Apple charges authorized repair shops if they don't return parts within a certain window of time, Dell will rip up the bill if for some reason the part got delayed on its way back to them. Basically they just want to make sure you aren't stocking your own inventory on their dime. Toshiba can sometimes be agonizingly slow getting parts because they have to order them from China and they come over on those bulk freighters that take about 2 weeks to cross the Pacific, but I've never seen Toshiba try and shirk from a valid warranty claim. When the Qossimo x305s, with their idiotic idea of dual sandwiched video cards, were overheating and failing right and left, Toshiba actually sent one of their engineers to our shop to look at the units.

That sort of thing matters to me. You always hope that your computer will never need servicing, but it's an important consideration just the same. One that all too many people overlook. Better to spend a little more on a laptop with lesser specs, knowing that you can get it serviced quickly and painlessly if need be, rather than find out the warranty is worth more as an emergency supply of toilet paper than it is getting your unit fixed and your only real recourse would be to take the company to small claims court for breach of contract. You'll almost certainly win by default, but you're still out a laptop.

I won't go and recommend any specific models, but I would recommend giving Dell and Toshiba's offerings a good hard look before pulling the trigger on the Lenovo.

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You just described the entire PC market.
Apr 25, 2014 12:07AM PDT

As such you may not like any maker for the reason you elaborated on.
Bob

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Not the entire market
Apr 25, 2014 10:13AM PDT

Not the entire market, just everyone that isn't Dell, Toshiba and Apple.

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(NT) Or Dell, Toshiba, Apple wanna be's.
Apr 25, 2014 11:33AM PDT
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Answer
You got to be kidding,
Apr 23, 2014 12:38PM PDT

you mean all these many years I been using PC...it's nothing but crap? I got to tell you, the only apple I have is the Fuji in the ice box.

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lol
Apr 23, 2014 2:23PM PDT

Relax lol, I wasn't here to start a debate on Mac vs PC. I'm a little excited to get a PC because of the power you get for the money. All I'm saying is I'm skeptical of the reliability of most of them, and my loyalties lie with Mac (so I was explaining why). I just think it's funny that the only time I see comparably reviewed PC's, they're basically the same price as a Mac.