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General discussion

Mac or PC

Jul 12, 2006 2:42PM PDT

Im looking at the new Macbook 1.83ghz white. My dad is steering me away from Apple because "we're living in a PC world". He says that the best choice for me is a PC laptop because Mac's arn't compatible with todays society. I'm going to use this laptop to make projects for school, make music, make photos, MSN, mostly teenager stuff but i dont want to cheap out on a laptop. I have no problem spending the money but my Dad is. Is there anyone here that can help me with my decision, am i making a wrong choice with this laptop.

Discussion is locked

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Mac or PC
Jul 12, 2006 6:16PM PDT

Is that your real DAD or your Grandfather?
Enter the real world. Most schools use a Mac whether in grammar School or college.
The Mac Laptop is the choice in college these days for music and graphics.
Photos? Use Adobe Photoshop. The premier photo editing software in the world. The software is available for a PC also. You can purchase a school edition at a low cost. Same goes for any software you choose.
MSX for the Mac is great!
Music is another area. Want to compose or just copy downloads for your ipod?
Great software available from Apple.com.
Check the site out.
Ask Bob Proffitt (one of our Mods), his son is recently in collage and Bob uses both the PC and Mac. Bob can give you in-depth and insight on what to purchase going to college for you as well as others here.
Good luck in college. Enter todays society and technology.

Say hello to you father for me?from one Dad to another.

-Kevin

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Sad but True
Aug 1, 2006 11:36AM PDT

I've used Apple computers for a pretty long time. My friends often refer to me as "the Apple guy." However, various programs I use require Windows. At first I thought boot-camp would be a solution to my problems.

Having used Boot-Camp for a few months, I'm pretty annoyed. I end up working in Windows on my Apple laptop most of the time. When I do get a chance to run Mac OS, I end up having to switch to Windows just to do one short task.

I've worked with two different investment banks as an intern. Your father is correct in saying that the business world prefers the PC. My work in the Army National Guard also heavily uses a PC.

I'm keeping my Apple around, as more of a plaything. When it comes to work I ended up buying a PC.

I'm a senior in college. We use Dells. Most of my classmates use Windows-based computers. Sadly you'll end up needing to switch for your professional career.

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Out of touch Dad
Jul 12, 2006 9:54PM PDT

Your Dad is probably steering you away from Apple because he has not knowledge of the product. If he is familiar with it, his knowledge is probably based on something over 10 years old.
Mac OS X is a UNIX based system and is very secure and very stable. You can do everything on a Mac that you can do on a PC, only better. For the uses you have described, the MacBook will do everything straight out of the box.
Is your Dad worried about compatibility? Maybe he is not aware that Office for Mac is available and is totally cross-platform compatible.
He is also probably unaware that the MacBook is capable of running Windows XP SP2, via an Apple program called Boot Camp.

I wonder what Dad thinks about an OS that is virus free, and has been for the last 6 years. Imagine not having to scan for virus's, malware, spyware and all that other "neat" stuff. Tell Dad that you are making the correct decision and that this is the only brand of computer that will run Mac OS X and, if he really gets to missing his beloved Windows, he can watch you boot into XP on your Mac.

Go for the Mac.

P

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msn mentioned as well
Jul 13, 2006 1:59AM PDT

I know msn is not a problem to access, if you are referring to msn messenger, I understand that there is a program written for mac that will do the same thing, not sure on the detail, I think it is called amsn or something like that. Apparently MSFT did not make a messenger for mac but from what I have read on this matter. The amsn is comparable or better than windows live..the latest and greatest from MSFT. Maybe one of the guru's can elaborate a bit on that.
I am a rookie here...

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Thanks
Jul 13, 2006 2:28AM PDT

Thanks alot guys for your help. My dad also says that i will regret getting a mac because there arn't as many software as there is for a PC. He's worried about me making the wrong decision. Is there just as much software that can do the samething on a man? and say i make a powerpoint on my mac then need to open it up at school with a PC is there a problem there or am I just ********.
Again Thanks alot!

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Not as much as before
Jul 13, 2006 5:00AM PDT

Years before software compatibility was an issue but it's not as bad anymore. As someone said you can get office for Mac or even get bootcamp. However,there are of course limitations and some compatibility issues still might come up here and there, especially if you have to buy software for a Mac and then seperate software for a PC. You end up paying double.

Now, my recommendation is that you get a PC, but I've only had so much experience with Apple computers. Other people like Proffit and people outside the MAC forums may give you some other insights as well.

- Nick

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Let's see
Jul 13, 2006 8:31AM PDT

Get a Mac and run OS X and, if you don't like the Mac OS, run Windows.

OR

Get a PC and run Windows and, if you don't like Windows......

For what you have described, this is a no brainer

P

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Let's see more
Jul 13, 2006 2:33PM PDT

Pete, twiny43, can purchase all that he needs as a student AND with a substantial savings with all software.
Adobe Photoshop CS2 for his photography editing, Microsoft OfficeX for all the Office features that runs flawlessly on a Mac and many other programs such as Windows running on a Mac.

Are there any student discounts offer by Apple for a laptop for students?
Maybe Kiddpeat or Grim could help out on this question also. Both of them attended college this past semester year. Kiddpeat is a basic PC guy that used a Mac in class. Grim is a seasoned Mac person using a Mac at school.
I will email Kiddpeat with the html address of this forum.

Thanks Pete,

-Kevin

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if your looking for software
Jul 13, 2006 3:22PM PDT

in most cases you can find software to do almost anything on a mac that a PC will do (shareware and freeware originated with the mac)... and of course, with an intel powered mac... you have a PC. So in essence you can run all the software available. Power point and all MS office programs run on both mac and PC without any problems.

If your looking for deals on prices... check out the student discount prices on apples web site. Don't qualify for a student discount? Check out amazon.com. They usually have a 1 to 2 hundred dollar rebate on current iBook and now macbook prices.

Avoid paying for installation of ram... purchase your own ram and install it yourself. It's esier than you might think. Try this site for instructions

IFixit.com

Want to upgrade your RAM or hard drive, but don't feel comfortable diving in without any experience? The Fixit Guide Series is your solution. Each Fixit Guide has detailed disassembly instructions that walk you through the process of easily accessing and replacing components in your PowerBook, iBook and Macbook.


I bought an iBook and a new PC within 6 months of each other. The PC gathers dust and the iBook gets its battery (which lasts 4 hours) twice a day.

grim

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Mac and PC Compatibility
Jul 14, 2006 1:57AM PDT

Macs and PCs can share files very easily.

I have a windows laptop and a G3 iMac which are networked together. I can share files, print wirelessly and share my iTunes library from my iMac to Windows. It is very easy to configure it all.

My MS Office files all work fine, as does my existing Epson printer and USB thumbdrive.

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Instant messenger
Jul 14, 2006 6:03AM PDT

If i get a Mac can a share files with my friends through an instant messenger if the person im sharing with has a PC, is there any problems?

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(NT) (NT) Nope, none that I have had doing that with (adium using aim)
Jul 14, 2006 8:21AM PDT
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check out amsn
Jul 14, 2006 10:14AM PDT

I beleive this is the program that works with folks on msn or hotmail...should replace msn msgr and/or windows live ?...someone correct me if I am wrong.

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Can you do two way video with that?
Jul 20, 2006 12:29PM PDT

There is another post in this forum that is asking that question.

I use iChat but don't have a camera anyway so have no knowledge of the capabilities any of the other programs for chatting.

P

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You will not share files over yahoo messenger
Jul 24, 2006 1:16AM PDT

You will not share files over yahoo messenger but you have only to use the yahoo email component to do this as you are signed in to both with yahoo messenger.

They are still playing catch up. They have been promising for 4 years to get their mac act together. So far the new product is still in beta and likely to remain so for this year.

This link may satisfy your question:

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/archives/2006/07/14/2003318771

G H

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Yahoo Messenger
Aug 13, 2006 10:52PM PDT

Just rec'd a reply from Yahoo support on the Mac version. "They note that there is considerable interest from the Mac Community on voice chat capabilities on Yahoo"...There are currently no plans to develop this capability"...I also asked about Video and that apparently is a non issue. Essentially the Mac people are relegated to keyboard chat and e mail on both Yahoo and MSN Msgr? I don't see any improvement for Mac users on the horizon with these messenger services.

Gilbert

Will investigate AMSN,to see what they currently have to offer.

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MSN Messenger
Aug 16, 2006 4:51AM PDT

I use MSN Messenger on my Mac and it works great, just like on a PC.

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It sounds like you are looking for reasons to buy a Mac.
Jul 20, 2006 9:20AM PDT

You've gotten most of the standard arguments and pitches.

However, don't buy things like 'all schools use Macs', or everything works better on a Mac. You should know, but I can tell you if you don't, that most schools use Windows PCs most of the time. The college I go to has some Macs in certain areas, but the vast majority of its machines are Windows PCs.

The same thing goes for libraries and most other public facilities as well as virtually all businesses.

My interest is in multi-media. That means photography, video, and audio. My computer is a Windows PC, and it performs far better than the Macs that I have used at school. It runs world class software like Photoshop, and supports every feature found on a Mac plus, of course, many which are not found there.

The hardware debate is now over. PC technology has won with Apple shifting to Intel processors. I don't know if the Mac OS will also lose in the long run, or if something new will come along that sinks both Windows and the Mac OS. I can say that there is no significant advantage in the Mac OS vs the Windows OS. I can say that the Windows machine is far more adaptable because no single company controls the technology.

It really comes down to personal preference. Those who are Apple fans will go with the Mac. Others will not, and their machines will work as well if not better. Just don't make your decision based on marketing claims of some supposed superiority in Apple technology. It is a myth.

I'm not going to get into an endless debate with the Mac fans here. I may check from time to time to see if there's a question. Otherwise, look for me in one of the other forums.

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Didn't read the posts
Jul 20, 2006 10:03AM PDT

Paragraph one is pure fabrication..the MAC pundants didn't say anything of the kind.
Sure go ahead and buy a highpowered P.C. then load all of the bloatware and then add about no less than 5 or 6 security type programs and then tell me how great it runs. Yea, I have a Sony Digital Studio p.c.
A fine computer, hight quality everything. Then throw in what I mentioned above and see what you get?

Oh yes and don't forget all the mental masturbation keeping all of the crap up to date and err, the system maintenance. But don't take my word for it.
Ask Steve Gibson
Fred Langa
Kim Komando and a host of well know reputable P.C.
experts that advocate multiple layered security etc, etc, and don't forget to back up all of your data or it will get trashed. And also don't forget to keep your registry clean,clear cookies etc....maybe after that is all over you can do some computing? Oh yes, I started out with a cpm machine and graduated to x286 and up.

G

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Wow, you must have been reading a different thread.
Jul 20, 2006 12:26PM PDT

Like the other poster, I don't see where anyone has told him anything like your first paragraph.

"It runs world class software like Photoshop, and supports every feature found on a Mac plus, of course, many which are not found there."
A Mac does not run Photoshop? What exactly, of course, is it that PC's feature but Macs don't. Would that be the ability to run all those virus's?

"I can say that there is no significant advantage in the Mac OS vs the Windows OS." A virus free computing environment is nice!

What world are you living in when claim that PC technology has won. Other than the Intel processor, what is it that was different in a PC from a Mac? Remember, the Intel processor is NOT in all PC's. Also consider that MS use the G5 processor in the game box.

No single company controls the technology? What would you say that MS is doing? If MS do not support it, it does not get used on a PC. Remember USB, Wireless Networking, CDROM's?

" I can say that the Windows machine is far more adaptable"
Adaptability: If that means that you can throw any junk piece of hardware into a PC and hope that it will run, I'm sure the Mac users are actually pleased that their machines don't suffer the same accessory problem as the PC world.

Anyway, if we have any questions we'll be sure to wait with bated breath for your pearls of wisdom should be deign to grace these Mac forums with your obviously superior knowledge.

For really important questions, trust us, we'll come find you in one of the other forums.

Thanks for dropping by

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Kiddpeat, At long last?
Jul 20, 2006 2:48PM PDT

?I have the time to thank you for an honest response from both a Mac and PC user at college.
I will choose a Mac because I use it professionally and one at home.
You would choose the PC because of the same reasons.

However, now with a Pentium dual-processor built-in on a Mac,
if you had a chance to to try it out with Windows running, with that change your mind at all? Have you tried it out at all?
I have not. Nor interested in running Windows at all on it.

I have another PC at home and get my kicks by running certain games on it that are not available to a Mac.

We both use Adobe Photoshop. The only difference between running it on a PC or Mac is the control key and the Apple key. Big deal!!

Thanks kiddpeat, catch up with you on the other forums.

-Kevin

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I only came because I was asked to do so.
Jul 20, 2006 3:26PM PDT

I've read some of the reflexive responses here, and they are typical for Mac fans. It would be nice if people would stop to think rather than letting emotion run away with them.

I am not interested in an Intel powered Mac because I fully expect that Apple will boost the cost of the hardware, and because I see nothing to be gained from the Mac OS. As you know, I use Macs, and I know that they don't do anything that the PC doesn't also do. So, there's no benefit to investing in their OS. I am far more interested in a third party virtual capability such as VMWare that knows how to write virtualization software. That would truly open the way to new worlds like Linux while retaining access to my existing applications.

That doesn't, BTW, mean that I am not interested in dual processors of various stripes, but there is no particular advantage to having it in a Mac box. The only thing that might sway me is, if down the road a bit, I decide that Final Cut Pro is something that I should have and use. I don't think that will happen, but it is possible.

The Macs at school have single button mice. While I understand that more advanced mice are available, they are an extra cost that the school has not opted to incur. The design and operation of these things is awful and speaks to Steve Jobs lack of vision in designing and building the machines. Beside that, there are lots of little things. The Epson printer driver for Windows has a far better interface than the one on Macs (I've used both the 2200 and 2400 drivers). Also, the Epson printers function properly across a Windows network while they do not do so on a Mac. We used to have to carry Photoshop files from the Macs we used in class to the Macs to which the printers were connected on flash drives. The print function would not work across the Apple network.

Take care!

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Epson
Jul 24, 2006 12:56AM PDT

Thank you for your insightful post.

With only my own very pleasant mac ownership experience to use, to examine the question with, i am at a distinct disadvantage here. The PCs i use (a little) are in the public library or at a relative's home or at work. To me, they suck but they have improved a bit over time, not so much the machines as the software. My grandson in high school says all of his school's computers are mac. i know of two other schools and one junior college also using mac exclusively and so it must depend on who you are asking.

The question of Epson printers was solved for macs (for me) with the advent of OS 3.9. Previously Epson WAS problematic from my own perspective because i have one of those Epsons and Epson (not mac) was the one that didn't want to keep up with new drivers for the frequently changing and ''small'' mac market. So mac found a previously necessary 3rd party workaround software and began including it in the OS.

Frequently, software coming from PC folk but intended for the mac will be buggy and subject to PC programmers misconceptions and non-support which make it inadvisable to use at all ON the macs they were ''designed'' for. If mac users are so fed up with these, it may explain why they are so quick to criticize. i have PhotoDeluxe (a photoshop product) it came free with the iMac when i bought it and it still works fine.

In life there are many kinds of cars and car owners. All are running on the same superhighways. Those who can, will try to buy the best they can afford. Which automobile IS the best depends on HOW it will be used. But a car which is constantly under attack by detractors because it is more user friendly and luxurious and less subject to mysterious breakdowns is hard to find.

Mostly i tend to respect and envy those who can afford to buy a better product than me. i can't envy PC owners. How could i? i don't have all the facts. But i also don't envy all the apparent problems that my friends and relatives, (the PC owners) DO have. For a myriad of reasons, their PCs seem to get to crash a lot but this too has been improving.

On the other hand i DO envy their ability to get the much more publicly available software. This very significant argument that there are more commercial applications in which PCs are the computer of choice looks more like a self fulfilling prophesy and based primarily on name familiararity rather than on quality of product.

Because people believe in the questionable opinion that mac owners are a small market (just not true) they may be letting the misconceptions of the mob guide them when they buy a PC. My own life experience has taught me that the majority will always get it wrong. So i rarely try to go by a majority opinion. But i don't try to be intentionally contrarian either.

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Interesting. My experience is just the opposite.
Jul 25, 2006 1:21PM PDT

I see computers in libraries in several parts of the country, in my child's schools, at the local college, in businesses, in churches, and elsewhere. I rarely see a Mac. They are used in the photography program at the local college, but, elsewhere in the college, all one sees are Windows machines. Perhaps there are some parts of the country where Macs are prevalent, but I haven't seen them.

Interesting that you say that Epson printer problems were solved in OS 3.9. The machines we used at the local college had one of the latest versions of OS 10. I would think Apple would have fixed that problem by now. Microsoft actually tests and certifies thousands of pieces of hardware to work with Windows. That's one reason there are few problems getting hardware to work with Windows.

Since Epsons are THE printers for inkjet prints of photographs, and the visual media is a premier product area for Apple, I would think that Apple would take the initiative to insure that ANY problems were fixed. Instead, we operated a sneaker net while Apple blamed Epson and Epson blamed Apple. As noted, there are NO similar problems with Epson printers on Windows networks.

I can't comment on 'PC' software being buggy on the Mac since I don't know what software you are referring to. However, I can say that the Mac I used hung on many occasions. In fact, the Macs hang a lot more than my Windows machine does. The usual response is that Macs only hang if you are running an old version of the OS. You always need to get release x.y.zz.ppp, and then everything will be OK. Sorry, I don't buy it.

The idea that the Mac is more luxurious or user friendly than a Windows machine is amusing. I'm not sure what you consider luxury to be, but I can say that my Windows machine has far more amenities than any Mac I've seen. It seems to me that the Mac, and Apple, have moved from that user friendly machine to a cumbersome machine which is now keyboard centric. While Apple was doing this, Microsoft moved from a keyboard centric machine to a user friendly gui interface. Some people think their cars are better and more luxurious because they cost more. Others are more aware of what's under the hood, and want performance rather than appearance.

It looks to me like the Apple community is the one based on a mob mentality. Everybody has the same machine with the same looks and features. It is in the PC world where unique differences and creativity arise. Have you seen any PC/Windows mods recently? Many are very impressive.

However, I do think that anyone who is happy with Apple should be left alone. My only objection arises when such people start telling everyone else to pay obeisance to the emperor. The emperor has no clothes.

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i live in the PNW
Jul 30, 2006 11:58AM PDT

i live in the Pacific Northwest. Some might say it is as enlightened as most places, others will hold an opposite view. At the high school my grandson attends (Decatur) it is all mac. At the other high school i have knowlege of (Vashon) it is (again) all mac. At the nearby junior college it is mac (again) This strikes me as odd because we are only a short distance away from Redmond and Bill Gates. As we here are apparently an unusual anomaly i will defer to your own experience. Without giving too much away, whereabouts is your experience of the opposite being true ? Just curious because it is an interesting to me issue.

Your problems with Epson and mac were a lot like my own until OS X 10.3.9 came along and then it all went away .

G H

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In the Chicago area, it is PCs whether you look at schools,
Aug 4, 2006 9:43AM PDT

colleges, libraries, or much of anything else. The ONLY place I've seen Macs is in the photo program at the local college. Also, there are Mac classes available in the video program. In the video program, PCs are also taught as is appropriate since most professional video work is done on PCs or PC hardware running Linux. Digital music also is taught on PCs.

Everywhere else, the ONLY machines I see are PCs.

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Just visited on of the top aviation schools at the Univ. of
Aug 11, 2006 2:21PM PDT

North Dakota. All new students are issued a computer which they must pay for. What is it? A Dell. Not a Mac in sight at the school.

BTW, the professional simulators use PC hardware also.

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So do Mac's
Aug 14, 2006 3:31AM PDT

Use PC hardware that is.

What is the difference between a piece of PC hardware and a Piece of Mac hardware

Just curious

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Some differences between PC and Apple hardware.
Aug 14, 2006 4:39PM PDT

Apple didn't make it.

There is a lot more variety and capability.

It doesn't run the Mac OS.

It doesn't pay the Apple toll.

It may use any Intel or AMD processor to run.

It can run Windows without any software 'translation' or virtualization.

It can run Linux and other specialized OSs.

BTW, welcome to the Intel world.

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Oh, my mistake
Aug 15, 2006 4:47AM PDT

I thought you were talking about hardware in general and not specific hardware.

Linux and Unix run on Mac hardware

The mac can run Windows without any software translation or virtualization

Is the Apple toll like the Microsoft Toll?

BTW, I believe I have been in the Intel world since before there was an Intel world. Four Phase Systems and the AL1 processor. After Motorola bought the company, they kinda buried that though.

P