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LN52A650 Problems - Is This Normal?

by dotsonj / September 27, 2008 3:04 AM PDT

I purchased an LN52A650 a few weeks ago, and I have been seeing issues with the TV from the get go. Here is what I see:

1. Black Crush. I have tried to tune around this, but when I do it makes the overall picture way to bright and washed out looking.

2. Motion blur. I see this mostly when watching hi-def content, but I also see it in SD content as well. Usually, it is most prevalent when a scene is panned from one side of the room to another, or when arms are moved up and down very quickly. I dunno if this matters or not, but it also seems much more prevalent in darker scenes than brighter scenes.

3. When watching football, I see noise in the grass on the field. It looks like its cycling from clear to blurry. Its not so much of an issue when they are upclose, but when the cameras pan back from the filed and show a large portion of the field.

Here is what i have done to try and tune around this:

1. Tried the CNET optimal settings, this just made the picture way way to dark for our liking and the black crush was terrible. I ended up switching back to the "normal" settings, but none of this seemed to matter.

2. MOved the HDMI cables around betwene inputs to isolate bad cables( per samsung support), changed inputs from HDMI to component when that did not help, and there was no change on the above issues.

3. Upgraded to the latest firmware from the samsung website.

The cable box, DVD player, blue-ray player, etc all seem to show the same problem on different inputs and input types.

I called Samsung, and they blamed the cable box, the hdmi cables, the way the content was recorded, etc (basically said it couldn't be the TV casuing this issue). However, my last TV was a 55" rear projection (HD capable) and it had none of these issues. All using the same components (minus the blu-ray player).

I wonder if there is something wrong with the image processing on this TV(maybe just mine). My in-laws have an XBR it is way more fluid, but I think that the picture on this TV is much better when it seems to work. I want to keep the TV, but I don't think I can live with this and I am thinking of returning it. Does anyone else have these issues? I have 9 days left to return it, but dunno if I want to try another LN52A650 to see if this is an isolated problem with my TV or give a plasma a shot. Since this is my first LCD, I don;t know what to expect, is all this normal?

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I Would Return It
by exsvcsinc / September 29, 2008 4:07 PM PDT

I found the same issues with the (3) different 650's that I had. The motion blur on slow pans especially. Keep in mind that noise on the grass of any sports is more likely due to the feed quality, or the cameras that are being used. Not all cameras in any given game are high def, so different angles may be using different cameras, that are not high def. Also, cable companies are trying to cram in so many high def channels that they are having to really compress them due to limited bandwith, and compression usually leads to loss of quality. I'm not saying this is the problem, but it's a definite possiblity. If you can ever find ANY Channel that just comes in perfect (aside from the blurring) than you know the tv is not the issue. Certain channels that claim to be high def, also commonly upconvert non high def content to 1080i or 720p, so any flaws will most likely be magnified.

I can't really address the black crush, and some of your other issues, but I did have a 750 after my 1st 2 650's, and although some blurring is inherent with lcd's, I found the 750 to not have the same quality issues of the 650. I found it to be a much better picture overall, and it seemed to handle SD progamming better as well. I just could not deal with the halo, so I tried the 650 for a third time and really found that with 3 different sets, and having the 750 for a month, that, to me, the 650 was lacking in some areas.

Bottom line is, if you are not happy with it, you should exchange it.

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I did, and I Still See the Issue
by dotsonj / October 5, 2008 9:21 AM PDT
In reply to: I Would Return It

I returned it for the same model TV and still see the same issues. I'm sure folks will say its my cable box, etc, however I have a 55" HD rear projection that does not have this problem with the same cable box, DVD player, xbox, etc. I see the problem mainly with scenes that are panning, or zooming in and out. To me, it almost seems like processor lag because the image motion is not fluid, it seems jerky and/or blurry when you watch certain things.

Does anyone have any suggestions? The picture quality is excellent I just cannot handle the motion on this TV, it literally makes me feel sick when watching TV.

I have disabled edge enhancement and AMP and that seems to help a little, but its my understanding that theses "features" are supposed to enhance motion not cripple it.

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Some Suggestions..
by Mr__S / October 6, 2008 6:02 PM PDT


Most likely it is normal, however, there are some suggestions I can give you to experiment with your set to improve the quality of the picture. Many of the issues you see are common observations from people upgrading from SD to HD. But you have had a High Definition TV in place before if I?ve read your statement correctly.

One: Black Crush can be fixed by getting a professional calibration. What that will do is tune your settings to your particular environment. That includes your room, but also your input sources.

If you?d like to experiment further before paying for a calibration, pick a setting other than ?Dynamic? and that will allow you access your Detailed Settings menu. There, you can adjust intricate settings like gamma and color push. You can adjust each input separately in that your HDMI1 can have +1 gamma, and your HDMI2 can have +2 if that?s the way you like it.

Two: Motion Blur is a little more inherent in LCD panels than other technologies. We offer the 120Hz Auto Motion Plus feature that allows you to adjust your picture setting to reduce motion blur. There are 4 settings: Off, Low, Med and High. You might choose Low for one input (say, cable box), and High for another. (say, for your blu-ray) or any combination inbetween. That picture processing is very popular because it cuts down on motion blur.

Three: Noise in the grass on football games is inherent to the signal. Often times between transmission and conversion and compression, fine details in motion suffer the most. That also can be adjusted with Auto Motion Plus as well as other settings. Those issues are rightly attributed to compression in the transmission.

I?m sorry you got the impression that we are blaming ?everyone else but us?. That?s certainly not the spirit of our customer service department, albeit some of what they are saying is true. Moving from one technology to another does require a short period of adjustment. It?s why we make both plasma panels and LCD panels. People have preferences of one over the other and we want to take care of as many people as possible.

If the blur is that noticeable and adjustments don?t fix it, you might consider plasma technology.

Keep us posted!


Mr. Samsung

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