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General discussion

LN46A750 "Halo Effect" and "Clouding" Question

Jan 7, 2009 11:16PM PST

Hello Mr Samsung.

I'm sure this subject has been thrown by you so many times. I've recently purchased a Samsung LN46A750 and I'm trying to determine whether or not the unit I got has the Halo Effect problem fixed. The unit was built in September 2008 and is version SS02.

The effect I'm seeing kind of resembles that of what is pictured on the Samsung Support website:

http://ars.samsung.com/customer/usa/jsp/faqs/faqs_view.jsp?isARS=Y&SITE_ID=1&AT_ID=137885&ARS_ID=8775754

To your knowledge, does the halo effect COMPLETELY disappear if I have the correct bezel? I mean, I somewhat notice it but I don't think its that much apparent as to what other users are noticing. I can see some "haloing" if you look at it from different angles but you really have to look for it.

Are the bezel replacements that Samsung offers make the halo effect completely go away? Or did Samsung do their best effort to diminish the effect but still some haloing?

Also, there is the infamous issue of clouding. That is, when you have just the TV turned on with no signal, lights turned off, you can notice some subtle white patches or blotches on the corners. Naturally, you can't see them when viewing TV but it is really distracting when watching a Blu Ray disc and you see the horizontal bars on the top and bottom of the screen with some of the clouding.

What is your take on this issue? Does Samsung make units that don't have clouding? Are there ways to fix this? Do I have a unit that needs to be serviced? I've only had the unit for a month and a half and I registered the product through Samsung. I spent a lot of money and although I'm very happy with the picture quality itself it's these nuances that are not making me completely satisfied.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank You.

Discussion is locked

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Clouding
Jan 8, 2009 12:45AM PST

I just got a 52a750 and while I have no halo the clouding is also apparent on a dark screen. I haven't yet tried to watch a movie but would guess it would be visible in the dark areas. I have read that by altering the backlight and contrast you may be able to minimize the clouding but it seems that all LCDs have this issue it is just a question of how bad it is.

Otherwise I love the picture on the my new TV.

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Halo...
Jan 8, 2009 4:14AM PST

So you absolutely see no glowing or "haloing" whatsoever around the frame of your LN52A750? Totally black?

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NO Halo
Jan 8, 2009 6:29AM PST

Actually none whatsover and I have a pretty dark room and have checked from all angles. Now if I am at the side and stare at the inside of the bezel and I can see a sight reflection but that isn't really any different than my plasma. I think the halo is if it is transmitting light out to the ends of the glass in the corners which definitely isn't happing as it is totally black from a distance.

I am a bit concerned about the clouding though so tonight I am going to try and lower the backlight and play with the contrast and then see what happens with the dark night dvd. I am not an videophile but if it still bothers me I am going to return this and get the 800U panny plasma. I don't want to get in the games of exchanging TV after TV to get the perfect LCD and don't want a tech to start replacing parts on a brand new TV. Don't have the time or patience for that. Only thing that sucks is I bought this off amazon so would have to pay the return shipping but I'm hoping it can be managed. Good luck!

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Response
Jan 8, 2009 8:47PM PST

Sorry about the delay. I'm in meetings and at CES this week, so I'm keeping up as often as possible.

If the Halo is a noticable issue that you can't look past, we have a service center in place, and can remedy that situation. I'll leave that decision to you, of course.

The clouding often indicates that the brightness is up, or some of the settings need additional calibration, which often can be done by you. If not, we can address that issue with a service call. Some clouding is normal; however if it is persistent and can't be adjusted out, then I'd recommend calling our service line.

Keep me posted.

--HDTech

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Thanks for your replies...
Jan 8, 2009 10:04PM PST

Thanks you both for replying. Samsung HD Tech, I didn't calibrate my TV as of yet. Any suggestions on how to calibrate my set for the optimal settings and perhaps alleviate the clouding issue? When I bought my HDMI cable, it did come with a calibration CD of sort.

Does Samsung provide any optimal calibration settings? Any recommendations?

Still up in the air about whether or not I should replace the bezel. If I really new that a new bezel replacement actually fixes the halo effect completely, i would place a service call.

Has anyone got their bezel replaced by Samsung to fix the halo effect? Did it completely go away? Or are there some signs of it still there? Still trying to decide as to whether or not my set was already built with the halo effect fixed.

Also Samsung HD Tech, if I place a service call, does the tech come to the house the first time with part? Or does he show up, diagnoses that I need a replacement part and then comes back again? I was hoping it would all be done in one visit.

Thank you

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Settings to reduce clouding
Jan 8, 2009 10:18PM PST

I am using the settings that Cnet posted in their review of the 46a750 for night viewing and it seems to have helped reduce the clouding. If you read the review there is a link for the settings. I only really still notice it a little in the top right corner but like he said above I think there is always some inherent clouding with LCDs unless you maybe get the new OLED models which hit your wallet pretty hard at the moment.

Overall I really like the TV and while I may slightly still prefer my sammy plasma for night viewing this is a very versatile TV which can please everyone.

On a side note I think reading these forums was a blessing and a curse for me because it made me very paranoid that there is something wrong with my TV even if it is fine but if you have the halo I would get it checked out. That seems like a larger problem.

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CNET setting for the LN46a750
Jan 8, 2009 10:58PM PST

Wow, I read that entire review and forgot to click on that link for the settings. For those who are interested here it is:

http://reviews.cnet.com/9602-12576_7-0.html?messageID=2510911&tag=mncol;txt

You're right, the forums can be helpful but yet a curse at the same time. We both should be enjoying our new Samsungs and try not to sweat the small stuff. However, I do believe if you pay full price, you should be entitled to almost near perfect.

I'm going to try the settings posted by CNET review. As for the halo, still a toss up. I suppose if I'm entitled to a brand new replacement, I should go for it. But still not sure if it's a moot point if I already have a fixed bezel. Could you share a photo or two showing what a fixed bezel (with no haloing in dark light) on your LN52A750 should look like?

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Replacement...
Jan 9, 2009 1:21AM PST

Every regional service department is a little different. I suppose for the Halo issue, that it would be reasonable to expect the service tech to arrive with the part, but I certainly can't guarantee it would happen like that.

It's very likely they don't want to make 2 trips when all they might need to make is one, considering that point of view too.

--HDTech

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Halo
Jan 9, 2009 2:31AM PST

I'll try and take a picture if I get some time this weekend but bascially if you are looking at the TV between 0 and 90 degrees you see nothing except a pure black bezel. Maybe around 150 you see a slight reflection of the picuture on the inner opposite edge from where you are sitting which seems normal to expect as my plasma does it too albeit maybe a bit less. Bottom line is that fortunatley it isn't distracting.

Are you seeing light on the outer glass portion of the bezel?

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Halo...
Jan 9, 2009 3:22AM PST

Interesting. If I look at the TV straight on I see no halo. If I get up, walk to left or right of the tv, no halo. However if I stand up from sitting down on the couch, that's when you do see some lighting on all 4 edges. It seems like the light is not on the outer portion but rather "buried" more into the bezel. Is this considered a fixed bezel?

Sure if you can post or email me pictures this weekend let me know. I would greatly appreciate it.

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Halo
Jan 9, 2009 12:48PM PST

I just got the LN52A750 this week and tested this halo experiment in a dark room. I was able to notice a slight halo around the set. The other strange thing I noticed is I was able to see certain parts of the image around the frame if I stood at certain angles. It appears to be refracted from the besel. Neither were distracting to me.

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Settings worked...
Jan 12, 2009 5:41AM PST

Clouding is virtually gone. I used the settings from CNET for "Movie" Mode. Very nice when watching a Blu-Ray Disc. Clouding is gone from the corners.

For "Standard" Mode, I decreased the backlight setting a few notches.

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Same prob!
Jan 21, 2009 11:18AM PST

Hey, I was having the same problem...HALO effect. Confirmed this was an issue from this site. Like you Im not sure if I wouldve been better off not knowing this was a problem. I followed the link and requested a service call. They where very quick made an appointment for 2 days later. He came out and replaced the bezel in about 20 mins with my help to take down from mount. then........after remounting I noticed a void like spot or inner chip missing,,,guy said it was not coated and would order me a new one. That 1 took about a week. Well he was out yesterday and repalced AGAIN,,, no defects but......looks like some of the HALO effect is BACK. Doesnt look as bad but in a very dark room, at certain angles u can see it!!! I feel a bit defeated and am not sure I want to go through the pain and risk of unmounting and taking apart my TV for the 3rd time.....Probably best leave well enough alone!!???? Its not too bad, seems less or could just be my peranoia!!

Let me know how it went for you.

Thanks, BILL

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is it really a fix?
Jan 21, 2009 1:08PM PST

IMO, clouding shouldn't exist; Just because someone used Cnet's dark room settings to make clouding seem less apparent doesn't mean it's "gone" IMO.

by lowering backlight and brightness so much, clouding maybe less visible, but you are also probably crushing blacks, and making a lot of normally gray or dark areas which HAVE DEATAIL, into one big black patch, with no details in shadows, etc ... is that really a "fix"? I don't think so ...it's like cheating yourself.
I mean just because you want to see less clouding, you have to use backlight level at 3, when the range is from 1 to 10? or brightness at 30 when the range is 0-100? that is NOT normal viewing, so really I can't accept that anyone's really "enjoying" normal TV watching, because you're giving up natural detail in dark scenes because you want to hide the clouding! sure, turn the bakclight to 1 and brightness to 10, i am sure you will no clouds AND no picture (or almost none)...

I think it's better to take Samsung_TECH's advise, and get it REALLY fixed with a panel replacement or some other fix. Hiding the picture and detail so much to hide the clouds (which shouldn't be there anyway) is not a solution, IMO.

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More about halo and clouding
Jan 21, 2009 10:46PM PST

Thanks for both of your replies. Toodles, I was curious as to whether or not you own this actual model. If so, what settings do you use? If you don't own this model, which one do you have? Are you able to crank up the brightness and backlight to its maximum and see no clouding at all? Just curious. It's a highly debatable subject. I've read tons of posts on this. Some of the experts (so they claim they are) say that it's totally inevitable that no matter what HDTV set you buy, there will always be a certain amount of clouding unless you have a plasma TV. Also, another person said that there is a certain chip (which is very expensive) that will be in new HDTV LCD TVs in the future that will eliminate clouding altogether.

As for the haloing dodgecrib, I originally placed a service call to get the bezel replaced. However, I had to cancel for now because the regional service tech in my area doesn't do house calls. He said he would pick up the TV and then bring it back to his service location and would then deliver it back. I was totally turned off by that. I wanted to see what work would be done in front of me; not only to mention that the tech said that I would be out of a TV for a couple of days. Total incovenience.

Jury is still out though as to whether on not I have a fixed bezel or not. Plus after reading your post, it seems like the replacement didn't go all that well to begin with.

So what you're saying is that even though you got a new bezel replacement, it somewhat appears that the haloing is gone but not 100%? I think that is what I'm currently experiencing with my LN46A750. The haloing is there but you really have to be at the right angle to see it. If Samsung considers it a fix that's fine. I wish they would be able to be straight with me and say thats the fix.

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About bezel replacement
Jan 22, 2009 2:04AM PST

Hi hevz2mergatriod,
Was checking the Halo effect last night and it's so hard for me to tell if it's better or worse then the damaged last bezel I recieved. I might be over analyzing it not sure, unless I had them side by side I can't be sure. I just don't think I could stomach another unmounting and taking apart of my beatiful TV. You must realize it's been about 3 weeks since the first bezel to the 2nd (damaged) to the 3rd and final one. I am fairly convinced it's better than the first and would ASSUME it wa the new and improved bezel. I dont want to be such a perfectionist but isnt fair to think when we spend this kind of cash we should get a good correctly working model.

Anyways keep me posted Im thinking I'll just stay where I am and leave almost perfect alone

BILL

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More on haloing...
Jan 22, 2009 4:38AM PST

Hi Bill,

Yes very hard to judge as to whether or not I have the fix. I think I mentioned before in an earlier post that Samsung posted a photo with the "halo" around it but I wish they would have an "after" photo in which they considered it fixed. I just don't want to be put out of the way. I'm sure you heard of the saying "if it ain't broke don't try to fix it".

When you received the bezel replacement, I assumed it wasn't a refurbished bezel that came off another unit. Brand new in the package? See thats why I would like to see the whole replacement be done in front of my face.

Well keep me posted on what you decide to do next. 3 times a charm? It seems like you're not totally convinced either that it was fixed. If you want, maybe you can take a pic or to and send it with the so called "fix" from the bezel replacement. Take a pic with the lights turned off or maybe a few from a different angle. If it matches what I have I bet that would resolve the issue for both us.

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Reply to hevnz2mergatroid
Jan 22, 2009 2:52AM PST

well, I have the 550 series 40" and have Flashlighting (on L and R upper corners) and a light area (backlight bleed) on left and right edges, so my set is not perfect, and I am also gonna request service from Samsung soon, and I truly believe those phenomena shoudln't exist under normal viewing settings. I do not have classic "clouding".

My settings:
I think what effects/changes the flashlighting/backlight bleed the most are Brightness, backlight/energy saver. so I will comment on those:

This is for movie watching in a dark room with no lights:
I have BL at 5
Brightness 48
Contrast 91
energy saver: AUTO

These settings minimize the visibilty of flashlights and the backlight bleed on L/R edges a lot, without losing any big details (not even fine details, depending on the material) on dark scenes; for some movies which have an unusual level of darkness./lightness, I adjust the settings a bit, BUT, with those settings, 95% of the time, I can enjoy the movie pretty well without noticing the flashlights/bleeding in dark scenes. But I still think they shouldn't be visible at all, that's why I think of getting it serviced.

with the above settings, i don't see ANY fl-lights or bleeding at DAYTIME. (I hardly watch day time TV), and WHEN i do, I find the Backlight setting a bit too low on some channels, and up it o a 6 from 5.

Hope this helps.

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forgot
Jan 22, 2009 2:54AM PST

Oh and those settings are with MOVIE setting, and picture option WARM-1. (if the movie is too dark/reddish, change to "Normal" from warm-1)

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Thanks for the settings...
Jan 22, 2009 4:42AM PST

I'll certainly give it a try when I get a chance and see if it gets better. I think you qualified my issue better. "Flashlighting" is probably the more appropriate term. I only see the some bright spots in the corners. I guess I wouldn't necessarily call it clouding. I have seen some photos online of some sets that had some clouding and by all means they don't resemble mine. It seems like the flashlighting is due to the panel maybe being screwed so tight in the corners? Almost like pressing your finger on a LCD flat panel screen.

Let me know if you place a service call to Samsung when you address this issue and let me know if they ignore it by saying it's common or they will actually replace the panel for you.

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sure...
Jan 22, 2009 7:29AM PST

I will keep you updated on what happens;
I am only waiting a few days for a few exams to be over, I don't want to deal with it during a bunch of exams.
Yeah, clouding is more about larger light patches appearing in the middle of the screen, I think. when it's only on the corners/edges, I just like to call it "flashlighting" and back light bleed; I am NOT going to use those terms when I call samsung service: I heard that they haven't even heard of those terms, and tend to blow people off (some CS reps, at least): I will describe it as "patches of light appearing on corners/edges on dark scenes, making the picture light/dis-colored in that area" or something.

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LN46A750 Halo Update - Has Problem Been Fixed in 2009 Builds
Jan 27, 2009 2:23AM PST

Hello Samsung Technician. I've read all of the threads on halo-related issues associated with the LN46A750. You've mentioned that Samsung is fully aware now, obviously. Recently Samsung approved an exchange for my LN46A650. Thye took the liberty, without asking me, to exchange it for a LN46A750, maybe because this i sconsidered an upgrade model. However, I am concerned about the Halo issue. After already dealing with headaches with the LN46A650, I will be very, very frustrated if this LN46A750 halo issue becomes my next problem.

SO HERE IS MY QUESTION. Has Samsung re-designed the bezel on the 2009-built LN46A750 models to eliminate this issue?

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I would be interested too...
Jan 27, 2009 2:35AM PST

Could you contact someone over there Samsung HD Tech? It would save us a lot of headaches. It would save potential service calls for us people who aren't sure whether or not if we have the bezel fix or not. I would assume someone over there has a list in which the bezel fix is on certain "version" numbers. Mine is SS02. Can that be referenced?

I realize all of the 2008 TOC models will be eventually discontinued. It was kind of disheartening to find out that Best Buy already discontinued LN750 series first before the 6, 8, and 9 series. I would imagine it was because of the bezel issue...

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What you do??
Feb 2, 2009 2:32AM PST

JUst wondering if you decided what you were gonna do.
Im STILL debating on whether I have the fixed bezel or not!!
Frustrating!

BIL

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Placed a service call...
Feb 2, 2009 2:52AM PST

Hi Bill,

After deliberating, I've finally decided to place a service call to Samsung to get a bezel replacement for my LN46A750. Since I can't a definitive answer from Samsung, the only way I'll eventually find out is to have it replaced...

As of Friday, I called Samsung and so far, the warranty service department has been very accommodating. I spoke to a nice customer service rep who took down all my information and asked why I was requesting service. I immediately explained about the "halo" effect and requested a bezel replacement. She didn't challenge me on the issue other than just typing everything in the computer.

I also requested in-home service. Make sure you do this. I initially placed a call prior to this one because the assigned regional service technician was going to pick up the TV from my home and they were going to work on it on site and deliver it back. NO WAY... This time however, I said that I wanted in home service and the part to be replaced in one day since I wasn't going to have someone come to the house, diagnose it and then come back again. She understood my concern and said no problem.

If you're wondering if Samsung themselves come to your house to do warranty service, this isn't the case (well maybe around where I live). It appears that Samsung hires local authorized TV repair technicians and they work with them to do the service. Samsung Warranty department initially conducts the service request and then oversees the whole process. Also on Friday, I got another call from a local repair service in which they got the ticket from Samsung. The guy said he dispatches service technicians. He said he had to order the parts and once they arrive he would call me back to let me know what date would be good for me to have the bezel replaced. I asked if he heard of the "halo" effect on this model TV and he said yes and he said he got a few repair requests for this issue in the past.

On Monday, 2/2/09, Samsung Warranty Service called me back to do a follow up and asked if I got a call from someone to schedule the date. I said not yet. She said she is going to investigate and make sure everything is on track...

So at the moment, Samsung Warranty Service seems okay and very attentive to my concern with my TV. I'm hoping to have it replaced soon. It looks like by the time the bezel arrives it might take another 3 to 5 days or more depending when I'm able to take a day off to have it fixed.

I'll keep you posted.

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Good Luck
Feb 2, 2009 3:33AM PST

OK, good luck. Hope u have a better experience then me on the first replacement. Check the bezel carefully when he's done, where the bezel meets the screen is where I had the damage to the new bezel.
Keep me posted.
BILL

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3rd bezel
Jan 27, 2009 4:45AM PST

Hi Im on my 3rd bezel and if you read my previous post youll see why. MY new bezel is deffinately less halo then the first. Its at an odd angle about 30 deggrees or so...a bit to the left or right and is much thinner then before. Im gonna leave well enough alone, it doesnt bother my wife and I think I could get over it. Besides that the picture is amazing!!! I think the best TV under $4000. Im not sure if I have the latest bezel or not but it's gonna have to do. Who knows what would happen if I tried another replacement, it cant be good to keep taking apart the TV. I was going to buy the 650 but the 750 price was just dropped another $500 so the sales guy said why not go for the better TV for the same price??? Got it for $2099 3 years same as cash.Im still messing with the settings and would like other peoples ideas to get the best picture for HD viewing via HD satelite and blu ray.

BILL

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Appreciate....
Jan 28, 2009 11:50PM PST

We have addressed the issue.

That said, I can't guarantee that you're not going to have that issue. Or any issue. I can't pretend to guess what could or could not go wrong with any set.

I don't believe there is any indication on the change with either the packaging, stickers, etc. Cosmetic changes don't reflect version numbers.

--HDTech

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Halo Issue Addressed on LN46A750: When?
Jan 31, 2009 1:06AM PST

Samsung Tech, You said the halo issue has been addressed on the LN46A750. When? I know how to determine the build date of the TV, so when it arrives I will know if I have a model that is likely to not have this problem.

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Sorry...
Feb 1, 2009 2:45PM PST

I can't address that.

If you have the problem, I'll be happy to assist in getting it fixed. Due to the public nature of this forum, there are many things I can't discuss.

Unfortunately, this is one of them.

--HDTech