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General discussion

LN46A650 - New Owner - Game Mode - Firmware Questions

Jan 30, 2009 6:00AM PST

Hello to all,

I am a new owner of the LN46A650 & have a couple of questions/concerns regarding some of it's features.

First off, I'm a big gamer & found it awfully strange that there is no way to adjust the basic picture settings of Game Mode. I can understand if advanced features like AMP are not changeable, but the picture is WAY too sharp, over saturated, and bright in game mode & there should be a way to change at least the backlight, contrast, brightness, sharpness, color, & tint. All Sony sets let you do this in Game Mode, and even older Samsung models allow it. Why not with the LN46A650?

Secondly, as is widely known, the set suffers from some pretty bad gaming lag when not in Game Mode...which again comes to the majority of people not liking the way that mode looks - leaving them the option to use either HDMI2 in PC mode, or a VGA connection (but we'll just focus on HDMI for the simplicity of things) which allow for picture adjustment & at the same time reduce virtually ALL lag in gaming whatsoever. (Game mode still has some notifiable lag).

Now the problem with using HDMI2/PC Mode (and again, widely known) is that it only functions correctly when a 1080p signal is being sent to the television. If it is anything under, it automatically comes out of PC mode and the significance of lag free gaming with the option for picture adjustments is completely thrown out. Now one may ask why this would be an issue for gamers & I'll tell you why. The PS3 does not scale it's 720p titles to 1080p (and the majority of titles are 720p).

So basically, there are tons of PS3 gamers out there with the LN46A650 who wish to have lag free gaming, yet cannot stand the look of the televisions Game Mode due to the fact picture adjustments are not available. One of the 2nd options for them is to use HDMI2 in PC Mode but when a non 1080p game is played - the sets PC mode automatically shuts off - again leaving the only option is to revert back to the bad looking/non adjustable Game Mode.

A firmware revision could easily change these two things. Allow basic picture quality adjustments via Game Mode and/or allow HDMI2/PC Mode to function with a 720p signal.

There are MANY, MANY people wanting these two features & feel that with them, the LNxxA650 would be THE single best LCD of 2008.

What are the chances/possibilities of these fixes being included in a near future firmware update?

Thanks for reading my long post & I hope it made sense,
Daren

Discussion is locked

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firmware difference
Mar 1, 2009 4:47AM PST
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weird motion
Mar 16, 2009 2:43AM PDT

nycest124,

It appears that some of the processing that goes away when you toggle the Game Mode is the additional picture processing. Outside of Game Mode, those processes can't be turned off. The processing that upconverts the picture to 1080p/120hz can't be completely disabled, as that's the only way to get the source to appear on the panel.

I'm not sure what there is to do, except maybe go with the Game Mode if that setting looks best to you.

--HDTech

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amp stuck on
Feb 28, 2009 11:43AM PST

I just purchased my set a week ago. It came with the 2008.9 firmware version. I read somewhere that there's no way to roll back the firmware. Is that true? Cause if one of the older firmware versions is actually better, I would love to be able to install it.

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rollback
Mar 1, 2009 4:48AM PST

You CAN rollback to a different firmware, but remember that 2008.9 isn't available to download so there's no way of getting it back.

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firmware
Mar 2, 2009 11:18PM PST

Any word on 2008.9 vs 2007.0?

I would like to know so I can install the 2007 if possible.

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...
Mar 3, 2009 2:09AM PST

This thread is getting way off topic. Please post your non-gaming related firmware questions in the other thread pertaining to 2008.9 vs 2007.0.

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Agreed
Mar 3, 2009 1:13PM PST

It's getting too cluttered here and taking away from the main point of the thread.

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Officially a problem
Mar 4, 2009 8:27AM PST

So, I have started to discover games that do not have in-game brightness controls and appear too dark in game mode during some levels. Resistance 2 on PS3 is a great example.

What up Samsung? Don't leave me in the "dark"!

Samsung_HD_Tech, care to "shed some light" on the issue?

[Ha!, I amuse myself]

Seriously, 12 days left to return this thing. You guys think I should take it back for the Sony?

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Sony
Mar 4, 2009 11:26AM PST

I took mine back because it looked to me that there would be no resolution to the problem & as a gamer the Samsung wouldn't work for me for this issue alone.

As far as getting a Sony goes, you do have access to picture controls in Game Mode... but as with everything else they also have their own separate issues. I was going to purchase a Sony after my return but decided to wait until the new models of a few different manufacturers are available. I'm highly leaning towards a LED LCD set, but both the Samsungs & Sonys are using inferior edge lighting in their LED models.

If the B650s have no flashlight issues & allow picture adjustment in Game Mode then I'll pick one of those up & not wait on the Vizio LED with global lighting. In comparison the Sammy LEDs are WAY overpriced for their inferior LED lighting technique & I'm not sure that the additions to the B650 warrant the price increase ove rthe A650.

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Inferior?
Mar 5, 2009 1:23PM PST

SF59,

Without really wanting to start a debate, I'd have to take a little exception to your claims that our new panels will have an "inferior" lighting technique.

While EdgeLighting doesn't allow for local dimming, neither do any of the CCFL-lit LCD panels on the market currently. The purpose of the edgelighting is that we can use proprietary technology that keeps better screen uniformity than before - and noted by some of the threads here, would be an improved feature more than anything.

Now, I'm the first to look past criticism when something goes wrong with our sets. I've looked past a lot of unfair statements on this board. However, I would like to make one request..... can we reserve judgment, at least until people are able to see it and work with it firsthand in a finished product before we take 4 lines of our new upcoming televisions and dismiss them as having "inferior" technology?

The B650 units will not have LED edgelighting, based on what I know thus far.

--HDTech

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re:
Mar 6, 2009 1:52AM PST

Completely fair enough.

I apologize for jumping to the "inferior" conclusion. While I do fully believe that global dimming is a better technology than edge, I haven't seen any of the new Sammys to make the assumption that the picture quality itself is inferior.

I was aware that the B650 isn't LED, but can you possibly try to get some information as to whether it allows the Game Mode adjustments we've been talking about in this thread.. and/or PC Mode in 720p?

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Thanks!
Mar 6, 2009 5:11AM PST

SF59,

Heh. Sorry for being a little reserved, but there will always be time for criticism. I guarantee it. Grin (I thought the prototypes looked absolutely stellar, which is why I was surprised....)

I don't have Game Mode adjustments on the block yet. For the time being, I'd say let's assume that it hasn't changed, and as soon as I can get a finished unit, either I or one of our gurus will see what we can find. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised, but as our discussion was unfolding, I believe the plans were already in the works. Oh, I've got my fingers crossed, indeed!

The thread is increidbly long, but if you'd just summarize the questions you'd like to ask to maybe 3 questions, maybe I can expidite that for you in the next couple of days and get a solid answer. Are you up for that?

--HDTech

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Good
Mar 8, 2009 6:44PM PDT

Sounds good. Beings I no longer have the A650 I'll have to direct my three questions towards the new models.

1 - For both the 2009 CCFL & LED models, are the picture adjustments locked out in Game Mode like they are on the 2008 models?

2 - For both the 2009 CCFL & LED models, is PC Mode also available in 720p instead of only 1080p like the 2008 models were?

3 - If the answer to either one or both of the above questions is no, what is the likelihood that those features would be included in a near future firmware update after the 2009 models are released?

That will sum up all of my questions, at least for a good while.
Thanks so much!

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New Game Mode
Mar 10, 2009 12:53PM PDT

I need to revise my questions as the main one has been answered. The new LNxxBxxx models (at least the CCFLs) DO in fact have adjustable pq settings in Game Mode! With that said, I now only have 1 question which really matters:

1) For the 2009 CCFL models is HDMI2/PC Mode also available in 720p? Or is it still limited to 1080p like the 2008 models were?

Regardless of the answer to the above, I'm pretty excited that the pq settings are unlocked in the new Game Mode. Awesome! Now if 720p is unlocked for PC Mode... I know which set I'll be buying.

(Crossing fingers)

Happy

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Hello!?
Mar 10, 2009 2:59PM PDT

Yes, but what about me? With new models coming out, does that mean I'm out of luck? I want to turn up the brightness on my new $1500 TV please!!!!

Seriously.

Please.

Too dark.

Cannot see...

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1080p
Mar 18, 2009 4:55AM PDT

SF59,

Unfortunately, it is still limited to 1080p.

--HDTech

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Wait
Mar 22, 2009 9:51PM PDT

So will there ever be any official word in regards to the original post/650/750 etc... game mode and picture adjustments, firmware update fix, etc? Or was it already answered and I somehow missed it, haha.

I'm just hoping they don't decide to use adjustable game mode as a selling point for their new TV's if it's possible to fix it on the older sets with a firmware update. I'm not knocking Samsung or anything, I just want clarification is all Happy

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FW
Mar 23, 2009 2:27AM PDT

There hasn't been any official word on an update for the A series, but in all honesty I don't think you should hold your breath. Even though I returned my A650, I can still chalk it up as a learning experience. Now I know that it's something to make sure the set has when making my next purchase.

After some controversy surrounding Samsungs new edge-lit LED models, I have heard nothing but good things about them... well, other than the over the top pricing - which I would assume will come down some towards the end of the year or Q1 of next year.

At this point I am still choosing not to buy the B650 due to the fact that I have seen 4 of them now in stores & they all suffered from bad-flashlighting in all four corners. Which is really too bad because they have such an absolutely amazing picture. It's more than likely not an issue for the majority, but for the picky people like me - I can't stand seeing it when a film has black bars on top & bottom. If all films were formatted to fill the screen it wouldn't be a problem whatsoever.

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Torch Settings
Mar 23, 2009 2:07PM PDT

SF59,

Keep in mind that the retailers also amp all the setting to display seemingly oversaturated colors to compete with the intense lighting in a retail environment (We call it Torch Mode). Before throwing in the towel on these, play with the settings a little the next time you're in the store.

Just a thought.

--HDTech

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AsylumBlue
Mar 23, 2009 2:05PM PDT

The television's game mode will disable the functionality of picture adjustments. There are no firmware updates that I know of to fix this, because enabling the processing will result in process time and lag.

--HDTech