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LN46A650 - New Owner - Game Mode - Firmware Questions

by SF59 / January 30, 2009 6:00 AM PST

Hello to all,

I am a new owner of the LN46A650 & have a couple of questions/concerns regarding some of it's features.

First off, I'm a big gamer & found it awfully strange that there is no way to adjust the basic picture settings of Game Mode. I can understand if advanced features like AMP are not changeable, but the picture is WAY too sharp, over saturated, and bright in game mode & there should be a way to change at least the backlight, contrast, brightness, sharpness, color, & tint. All Sony sets let you do this in Game Mode, and even older Samsung models allow it. Why not with the LN46A650?

Secondly, as is widely known, the set suffers from some pretty bad gaming lag when not in Game Mode...which again comes to the majority of people not liking the way that mode looks - leaving them the option to use either HDMI2 in PC mode, or a VGA connection (but we'll just focus on HDMI for the simplicity of things) which allow for picture adjustment & at the same time reduce virtually ALL lag in gaming whatsoever. (Game mode still has some notifiable lag).

Now the problem with using HDMI2/PC Mode (and again, widely known) is that it only functions correctly when a 1080p signal is being sent to the television. If it is anything under, it automatically comes out of PC mode and the significance of lag free gaming with the option for picture adjustments is completely thrown out. Now one may ask why this would be an issue for gamers & I'll tell you why. The PS3 does not scale it's 720p titles to 1080p (and the majority of titles are 720p).

So basically, there are tons of PS3 gamers out there with the LN46A650 who wish to have lag free gaming, yet cannot stand the look of the televisions Game Mode due to the fact picture adjustments are not available. One of the 2nd options for them is to use HDMI2 in PC Mode but when a non 1080p game is played - the sets PC mode automatically shuts off - again leaving the only option is to revert back to the bad looking/non adjustable Game Mode.

A firmware revision could easily change these two things. Allow basic picture quality adjustments via Game Mode and/or allow HDMI2/PC Mode to function with a 720p signal.

There are MANY, MANY people wanting these two features & feel that with them, the LNxxA650 would be THE single best LCD of 2008.

What are the chances/possibilities of these fixes being included in a near future firmware update?

Thanks for reading my long post & I hope it made sense,

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by SF59 / January 30, 2009 1:48 PM PST

If there's no hope for a solution via firmware, I'll be returning the television for a Sony. There's no reason why we shouldn't be able to adjust basic picture settings in Game Mode.

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by SF59 / January 31, 2009 6:48 AM PST

I was reading back through my post today to double check if it made any sense & saw that I made a mistake...

I meant to say that the picture is UNDER saturated & not sharp ENOUGH. It's washed out and dull looking.

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So far....
by Snatch98 / January 31, 2009 8:05 AM PST

I've had the a650 for almost a week now and have only one complaint. It just so happens to be the same complaint the original poster has with "game mode" and it's lack of setting control. In my case game mode is FAR too dark especially when playing Socom: Confrontation. Thankfully Socom does in fact support 1080p so I can effectively run HDMI2/PC mode and eliminate the lag problem. The problem is my other games that run at 720p, Madden 09, NHL 09, Little Big Planet etc.

I purchased the a650 because of all the phenomenal reviews and besides game mode could not be happier. A firmware definitely needs to be released so a650 users can enjoy their TV to the fullest degree. However the PS3 is not without fault, Sony also needs to release a firmware for the PS3 so it can upscale games without issue.

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re: So far....
by SF59 / January 31, 2009 9:47 AM PST
In reply to: So far....

I agree with you to an extent about Sony also needing to release a new firmware to enable scaling, but the problem is that sometimes games don't look as good upscaled as they do in their native resolution. Pretty much every game I have is 720p & I don't really want my PS3 to force them to upscale to 1080p.

The advantage with only Samsung releasing a firmware vs. Sony is that we would get picture options when in game mode, where as if only Sony patched we STILL wouldn't have the options in game mode. Also, if Samsung allowed PC mode to run in 720p AND 1080p - no game that natively doesn't support 1080p would have to be forced into it. Where as if only Sony patched, again we still wouldn't have the game mode picture options, and like was stated before... sometimes forced upscsaling sometimes looks WORSE.

I really believe that Samsung are the solution to the issues. Yes, Sony should do their part as well - but I also feel that a firmware update for the television would provide THE best option/solution possible. Samsung are the only ones who can do that.

It's a pretty widespread issue & I'm surprised both things haven't already been changed via firmware.

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by Snatch98 / January 31, 2009 9:58 AM PST
In reply to: re: So far....

Agreed. I would love options while in game mode. Hopefully they release a firmware.

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PS3 scaling
by dsh1998 / February 1, 2009 3:45 AM PST
In reply to: re: So far....

SF59, regarding your preference for the PS3 not scaling 720p games to 1080p....I don't think you understand what's going on regarding scaling. If you have a 1080p TV, that 720p PS3 game IS being scaled to 1080p by the TV. The TV only has one resolution, and upconverts every source to match that. So whether it's the PS3 doing the scaling or the TV, what you are seeing on the screen is 1080p.

The only way for a 720p game to be displayed at that resolution is if your TV's native resolution is 720p (i.e. not a 1080p TV).

The reason people want the PS3 to do the scaling is because, generally speaking, device scaling is much better/faster than leaving it to the TV. Unfortunately, the PS3 doesn't seem to be capable of scaling the output. Instead it leaves it to the game's developers to build in support for 1080p.

Check here for the definitive site explaining the issue in detail:

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LN40A750 Here
by AsylumBlue / January 31, 2009 2:11 PM PST

Hey, I recently wrote Samsung about this very same issue, almost word-for-word xD

The only difference is my set being a 750 (Think you could edit the title and add in the 750 as well?).

Here's what I wrote (I was angsty when I wrote this, don't point out the obvious flaws or any faulty information I may have given out, haha):

LN40A750, Game Mode, Adjustments, Lag

I will start off by saying that I absolutely love the picture quality on this particular set, and it blows away the competition as far as I'm concerned, but there's one issue that's driving me absolutely mad, and makes me want to get rid of this TV completely for another set, or return it and get my money back.

I'm an avid gamer, and I did a lot of research before purchasing my first HDTV, believe me. From what I read around the net, it seemed as if this TV was good for gaming, had minimal to no lag (game mode), and just overall was wonderful for current-gen systems. I use the TV mostly for gaming, and have my PS3 and Wii both hooked up. Wii is hooked via component cables, and the PS3 via HDMI.

Upon first booting up my Wii, I anxiously started a game of Super Smash Brothers Melee, only to immediately notice the lag (this was in standard mode). I immediately looked at the manual, and realized there was a game mode, so I switched it, and to my joy, the lag had virtually disappeared.

Now, although that was the case, I found that the picture quality was way too sharp and bright, which made everything look overly saturated and pixelated. So I'm sitting there and I figure, 'Hey, no big deal. I'll just adjust the sharpness among other color settings and it'll all be perfect'.


Pretty much all of the useful settings to make the game look better were missing, and even if I were to go to standard mode and turn off all of the features that would induce lag (same settings as game mode), the lag would still be there.

I'm incredibly disappointed that other sets such as Sony's W4100 are comparable, yet allow for it's owners to adjust brightness, contrast, etc... settings under game mode. My TV doesn't. Even when playing my Playstation 3 under game mode, I can't help but find it to be saturated and overly sharp.

I think it's very deceiving that nowhere on this site or Amazon where I purchased it for that matter, states that most of the settings on game mode are locked out, or state anything about lag at all. This is a very shady practice, and I won't put up with this. I tried giving the TV a while, thinking maybe I'd warm up to the limited game mode or that a firmware release would solve the issue, but nothing.

Now, I want to know if there will ever be a firmware release to fix the issue and unlock certain settings like sharpness/brightness in game mode, or if I'm stuck with my limited gaming adjustments thanks to the lack of information on Samsung's site about this TV.

I worked hard to earn money in order to purchase this set, and I am not satisfied by this lack of information which would have held me back from purchasing the 750 had I known in advance.

I expect a reply, otherwise I'll have to phone up the company and complain there.

Thanks for reading this ridiculously long message, I know you have nothing to do with how the sets are made or designed and I'm venting, but please, any help here would be great as I'm a huge gamer, and all of this is hard to swallow.

They replied with this:

Thank you for contacting Samsung Technical Support.

We will like you to write our corporate headquarters address on this.

Samsung Electronics USA

Office of the President

400 Valley Rd. Suite 201

Mount Arlington, NJ 07856

If you have any other question, please contact Samsung at 1-800-SAMSUNG.

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by SF59 / January 31, 2009 4:45 PM PST
In reply to: LN40A750 Here

I would edit the title but I don't see any edit option here. What also seems strange is that it seems some people get an overly 'sharp' picture, and others get the opposite. Is it possible that it's just game specific? I dunno, but having the options would help people on both sides.

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Soft vs. sharp display
by DaverJ / February 1, 2009 12:46 AM PST
In reply to: Editing

I've found 1080p sources using an HDMI cable, any input using "Game Mode" (Entertainment), the picture is razor sharp with little discernible lag.

OTOH, a 1080p source using an HDMI cable in HDMI2 named "PC" results in a much softer picture, albeit NO LAG. A VGA cable also works in this setup for picture only.

The user has the choice of sharpest picture with almost no lag, or a softer picture with absolutely no lag.

IMPORTANT NOTE: most picture adjustment options are unavailable in both situations. Also, PS3 users must note that non-1080p games (very common) will leave "PC Mode" and revert to whatever "entertainment" mode is selected.

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by SF59 / February 1, 2009 3:13 AM PST
In reply to: Soft vs. sharp display

Well that's the part that we would like to see changed. We want either adjustment options in Game Mode, PC Mode to stay active when a 720p source is being fed w/ adjustment options, or both.



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by SF59 / February 2, 2009 8:20 AM PST
In reply to: RE:

C'mon Samsung techs... comments??? Can you give us a ray of light?

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LN40A750/650/etc Game Mode
by AsylumBlue / February 2, 2009 10:06 PM PST
In reply to: ???

I think we may get some sort of reply by the middle/end of the week, not sure, but it seems most likely. In any case, I'm really hoping they do something about it, because quite honestly, it's the ONLY complaint I have with my A750, and having the ability to adjust those settings in game mode would make my life. Like on the Wii for example, having to play at 480p which is almost as far as possible from 1080p will introduce a lot more input lag, so I have to play it by default in game mode, otherwise the lag is inexcusable. When it's in game mode, the picture looks horrible because the sharpness and brightness really highlights the low-res images/models in the game, making the jaggies VERY apparent. I've been able to make my Wii look better than it would look on a CRT by adjusting the settings, so I would be incredibly happy if I could do the same in game mode.

Make it happen, Samsung! D;

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Lack of game mode picture controls
by Felix Lighter / February 4, 2009 2:06 AM PST

This is also something I'm interested in but I would imagine that it simply isn't possible. The picture controls you lose access to in game mode must require too much processing and giving the user access to adjust them would introduce lag, defeating the whole purpose of game mode.

Of course, I would love to see Samsung prove me wrong.

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I dunno
by SF59 / February 4, 2009 3:24 AM PST

Hopefully we get a response soon, but I can't see how Brightness/Contrast/Color/Sharpness could effect lag in Game Mode at all - simply because in PC mode you have the option to set Contrast/Brightness/Backlight/Dynamic Contrast/Gamma/White Balance and there is STILL less lag than in Game Mode.

I can see how things like Edge Enhancement/AMP/DNR/DNIe could effect lag, but we're not asking for those options to be adjustable in Game Mode. If PC mode can let us change all of those settings & still have less lag than Game Mode, then we should either A)Be able to adjust basic PQ settings in Game Mode and/or B} Allow PC mode to accept a 720p signal and still function properly.

I think the Game Mode solution would best suit everyone.

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by SF59 / February 5, 2009 6:12 PM PST
In reply to: I dunno

Hey Samsung guy. Could you please take some time to respond to this matter while you're already here addressing other peoples concerns?

No reason why this topic should go unnoticed & unresolved. There is a already a 10 page thread in the AVS forums dealing with this exact issue, as well as a 500+ page topic on the official Playstation forum dealing with the lack of PS3 upscaling abilities.

I don't see why 'Samsung' can't be the better person here & fix this for us, beings $ony doesn't seem to give a.....

Once again I'll state that these issues are something Samsung could manage very easily with a firmware update & since the other side seems unwilling to help out, that leaves you guys to step up to the plate. Not to mention I paid $350 for my PS3 and nearly $2,000 for my LN45A650, I think we deserve a solution from Samsung.

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by SF59 / February 5, 2009 6:14 PM PST
In reply to: bump

I meant LN46A650. Why is there no edit feature on CNET forums? It would be nice if we didn't have to double post.

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by AsylumBlue / February 5, 2009 6:42 PM PST
In reply to: oops

Indeed, it's not unreasonable to at least expect an answer, or better yet, a firmware update to give us that bit of control in Game Mode. It's entirely possible to do this as far as I'm concerned, and it would even sway potential customers who are turned off by the lack of control. I paid nearly $2000 for my 750 set as well, and I think it's fair for us owners to expect "fixes" if you will. Honestly, I would be elated to get a new firmware update that addresses this.

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by Samsung_HD_Tech Samsung staff / February 7, 2009 9:41 AM PST
In reply to: bump


It's been a week since this issue has surfaced on the forums here. So no, I don't have any official statement or response to this issue in regards to the issues stated above.

I try to help everybody here, but I do take a little exception to some of the statements that have been made.

First, this topic didn't go unnoticed. While I look into these issues to see what other boards have to say, what our service center has to say and our knowledgebase has to say, I don't know the scope of every particular issue immediately. I'm good... but not that I can speak on our competitor's product without a little research.

Second, who says the gaming console company doesn't care? Did they release a statement? Did they answer this issue? Have they addressed it? Are they even aware of the scope of the issue? Believe me, I'm not one to go to bat for our competition, but let's be fair here - what have they said in direct relation to this issue?

Third, firmware is not easy, nor is it inexpensive. There are lots of considerations that go into that, but I'll leave it at that.

Lag is inherent with picture processing. We give you the ability to turn additional picture processing off to reduce lag times, which means that the picture doesn't get processed and comes in straight as the game console sends it. Since the settings process is bypassed altogether, the picture quality isn't going to be what it could; though some processing MUST remain to upscale it to 1080p.

So Game Mode essentially allows you to choose:
--Potential Lag + great picture
--No Lag + whatever quality picture is sent

--Minus upconversion, since the picture must be upconverted.

I'd be willing to look into this and see what I can find out. Naturally, I can't promise a firmware fix since Game Mode is working as it was designed. The result may be less pleasing to some than others, but we approached the gaming community specifically when we developed this and used it, almost without complaint, for the entire previous generations of televisions. The gamers spoke out and we did exactly as they asked: Reduce the lag.


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About Game Mode and Gamers
by AsylumBlue / February 7, 2009 10:33 AM PST
In reply to: Lag

Thanks for taking the time to reply. As far as I've noticed, this has been an issue that has come up many times across various forums, and the main reason why it's not as big an issue is because some people either don't care enough about the bad PQ of Game Mode, don't notice the lag outside of Game Mode for whatever reason, or don't believe that their input will have any effect on whether or not the "issue" is addressed.

All we're looking for is a clear answer as to why basic adjustments aren't allowed in Game Mode like other similar HDTV's, or why the decision was made to lock out the option. Is it because no one has really complained about it in the past? If so, it's a little disheartening for most hardcore gamers who play rhythm based games, first-person shooters or fighters, looking to reduce the jaggies on screen since sharpness is set so high, or looking to lower the brightness of picture. It's terrible having to sacrifice picture quality for reduced lag.

If you can get some answers on this issue, it would be greatly appreciated. I'm not sure how much money goes into creating new firmware, but I think it's fair enough for us owners who paid $1,500+ for the sets to want a bit of service where there are concerns or issues.

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by SF59 / February 7, 2009 11:59 AM PST

Thank you for the reply, it really is appreciated.

As far as the competition goes, yes they are certainly aware of the upscaling issue on their end & even commented in December, 2007 that it would be taken care of but have remained completely silent about it since then - regardless of the fact that there's a 500+ page thread on the subject on their own official forum. Beings they are unwilling to make any further statement about it, I feel quite secure in saying that they really don't care & will do nothing about it. However, this could be remedied by a Samsung firmware update allowing HDMI2/PC Mode to also run at 720p and not just 1080p. This would allow better picture adjustment than Game Mode offers & at the same time have even LESS lag than Game Mode does. As previously stated though, I feel that offering basic picture adjustments in Game Mode would be the best overall general solution & having BOTH options available would be the best. I understand that asking for both may be a longshot but I would assume that it may be "easier" to change one over the other in a firmware update - but I could be completely mistaken. I'm just saying that if I had to pick one, it would be the Game Mode option.

I will agree with the previous poster as well. I have seen this topic being discussed in many different places & it IS a widely know "issue" for many owners. I agree that too many people don't believe their input will have any effect. Prior series Samsung sets have had the option for these adjustments in Game Mode so I'm not understanding why they are locked out for this series.

Again, thank you for your response & I am greatly looking forward to any and all further information you can provide us regarding this topic.

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by Samsung_HD_Tech Samsung staff / February 7, 2009 12:45 PM PST
In reply to: re:


If they promised a fix, I'm surprised that they haven't been taken to task by every Internet Tough Guy on the web. But that said, updates and fixes take an incredible amount of time. It hasn't been 2 months since they announced it, so it's POSSIBLE that it may just be delayed. C|Net has some of the industry's best investigative journalists (hint hint).

I'm curious - and not to take this off topic, but I've seen little on the PS3 and almost nothing(!) on XBOX or Wii systems regarding lag.

I'm not sure what the effect of such a change would have on the HDMI2/PC port with regards to PC connections as a result of what would fix the gaming conole issue. I'd still concur that the lag would be a result of the processing and not necessarily the native resolution that the source is sending to the television. Even if that was to change to 720p, what would change the fact that processing the picture is what causes the lag - leaving you with the same lag with a new resolution?

I'm not sure we could split - say Contrast and Brightness - away from the other processes like AMP, saturation, etc. These are definitely the hard questions, so like I stated to Blue, let me see what I can find out. For now, let's say I'll guess that's a possibility without knowing if I'll be able to confirm that.

The prior versions of televisions that had Game Mode also didn't have 120Hz AutoMotion Plus processing and ran at 60Hz. With the processing now having to upgrade both the resolution to 1080p and the 60hz signal to 120Hz, any additional processing is probably going to result in lag.

If you have more info that would be pertinent, that's great. Summarize it and bring it here. With our forum membership increasing and more people participating here at C|Net, I'm going to have less time to do independent research on other threads.

Keep me posted.


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Game Mode and Gamers
by Samsung_HD_Tech Samsung staff / February 7, 2009 12:25 PM PST


More than happy to jump in.

I'm going to on a limb here with a completely unofficial, yet somewhat educated hypothesis on why "basic" functions may not be allowed, tho until I can definitively solidify this as fact, please treat it as the "guess" it really is.

There are several "modes" in the television that do this, and it isn't just specific to Game Mode.

Entertainment Mode, for instance, will lock out certain functionalities - not to limit anybody - but because a picture adjustment function of one setting overrides another.

I'm a Guitar Hero nut, so believe me, I'm with you on understanding what lag can do to a fellow's gaming experience. That said, to allow SOME processing usually means to allow ALL processing, and that's where the lag is introduced.

I'm not at liberty to say which processes are controlled by which chipsets, but my guess is that those chipsets aren't routed to bypass other chipsets for the sole purpose of lag reduction other than bypassing all of them. Remember, this is considered hypothesis, but in all honesty, I doubt I'll get a straight answer from our engineers. But that's my insight.

I understand the cost issue here, being the most expensive piece of the puzzle. But I would counter that with this: You wouldn't demand a car manufacturer to redesign the shocks on a $20K car because the $200.00 CD Radio skips when you hit a bump. Likewise, there is only so much that can be done to process this kind of picture, and what you're seeing is essentially the raw source. That's the console's picture quality, not ours. But to avoid lag, we disable the picture processing, thus leaving the upconversion process intact.

These are my initial thoughts... let me gather some more data and see what I can find. I can't promise a fix, but I'll be happy to explore it, and if I can make a valid argument, I'll submit it. Not all things I submit are implemented, but then I'll have at least done what I could and you'll have been represented.


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by SF59 / February 8, 2009 2:23 AM PST
In reply to: Game Mode and Gamers

Here's the ongoing thread at the AVS forum:

I've been searching for the huge thread on the official Playstation forum that I mentioned but cannot locate it at the moment. I'll keep looking because I know it exists.

Another question is what additional processing is disabled by using Game Mode? I ask because if one manually turns off DNIe, AMP, and all other detailed settings in a different mode - it does not reduce the lag like Game Mode does.

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Y cant i turn on the 120 hz during game mode??? (ln46a750)
by hogball / February 8, 2009 6:10 AM PST
In reply to: AVS

when i use the entertainment mode to use the sports,cinema, and game feature, how is it that the 120 hz cannot be accessed only during the game mode? During the sports and cinema mode, there seems to have no problem turning on the 120 hz mode.

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by DaverJ / February 8, 2009 7:09 AM PST

These TVs are always displaying 120Hz.... you can't turn it on or off.

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by hogball / February 8, 2009 9:22 AM PST
In reply to: 120hz

my bad i meant that the auto mtion plus 120 hz is not available when I am in game mode, but it is available in sports and cinema mode.

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by DaverJ / February 8, 2009 9:51 AM PST
In reply to: Re

AMP requires a lot of processing, which is the cause of lag. Game Mode turns off as much processing as possible.

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by Samsung_HD_Tech Samsung staff / February 9, 2009 6:19 AM PST

Is the PS3 you're using running the latest firmware? I don't mean to point the finger, but it'd be incomplete to ignore this possibility. I'll say straight up that personally, I'm an XBOX guy, so some of this is a little above my head. Luckily, there are a few PS3 fans in the office that will be helping me through this.

One of our techs noted that this was an issue with some of the early PS3 units, and this issue was supposedly addressed by Sony via a console update.

The HDMI port - any of them - will accept a 720p signal. So either the signal that is being sent isn't 720p, or has 24hz enabled, which may be causing the signal to not be properly recognized by the television for whatever reason. So try switching that to see if that helps.

I'm a little confused why other 720 inputs would work, but the PS3's doesn't.

Just for kicks, as a last resort (and I can't say why), try HDMI port 4 and see if you get a better result.

Keep me posted.


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Game Mode
by Samsung_HD_Tech Samsung staff / February 11, 2009 5:48 AM PST


Sorry for the delay.

The AutoMotion Plus processing can't be accessed because game mode turns off those features to reduce lag. Now, you can play your games with the 120Hz Auto Motion Plus by disabling the Game Mode option, however the resulting picutre processing OF AutoMotion Plus may result in a delay (lag time) for real-time gameplay.

Feel free to try it both ways. Most gamers see a difference (and this also depends on game timing, such as Halo or Guitar Hero, for example), and while some games allow you the option to "calibrate" your gameplay to delay the lag from the console, other games don't. For those other games that don't, "Game Mode" is best.

Hope this helps.


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Good question....
by Samsung_HD_Tech Samsung staff / February 8, 2009 10:34 AM PST
In reply to: AVS

I'll have an answer for this on Monday.

I've never been asked that before. Grin


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