General discussion

LION OS availability and upgrade options

I am planning to buy a new MBP. But after the announcement new OS, I have hold myself till the new OS is launched.

I will be really thankful if anybody can give me following information

From when onwards, the new bought MBP will be entitled for a free upgrade.

What will be cost of upgrade for Leopards users

When will be the official launch

please help

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Reply to: LION OS availability and upgrade options
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I agree with your first answer.
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new OS- wait or not?

Just to say : it's not so important to wait for a forthcoming OS when you have the latest Apple computers, as they always design those computers so they will easily accept the forthcoming OS. No one would be happy with Macs if this wasn't Apple policy, in view of the expense of the basic machines. But the contrary is overwhelmingly the case.
Furthermore Apple introduces a new OS so frequently, somewhere between every 18-24 months, that there would be a howl of discontent were it not so, and if the new OS were really expensive. Presumably when you say Leopards you mean Snow Leopard, as that would be on any new machine bought nowadays from a reputable dealer.
On past form new Apple OSs have not been expensive, in point of fact they have been really cheap in comparison with new Windows versions, which in the Professional versions may knock you back a good 500 dollars or euros. Apple has only ever produced one version of its system, so there is none of the problem of getting the home version and then finding it's not extensive enough for you. The Apple OS is always the professional version! and the computers are designed so that they will run several successive OSs without problems.
For example, for those running Leopard already, the cost of buying Snow Leopard was a mere 29 Euros, so probably 29 dollars for the States. For those with Tiger only, Apple is offering a deal by which you get Snow Leopard for 129 Euros, but they throw in the latest iLife 11 with it plus iWork (not included with an new machine normally but bought separately), which makes it really quite a bargain. So you can see that such OS prices are hardly the exorbitant thing that buying an advanced new Windows version would be, especially as in the end it is far better to get a new machine with Windows if you want it to run properly. I see that iLife '11 alone would knock you back 49 euros on its own.
<If you do decide to go for a mac earlier, I would try to get one with iLife '11 already installed.

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Not entirely true

Not entirely true. There is a Mac OS X Server edition. Generally only comes with XServe systems, but I believe it's an option for Mac Pros and Mac Mini Servers have it standard. It can run on pretty much any system though, since it's just Mac OS X with a few server oriented tools and a tweaked process scheduler to prioritize background tasks.

And there have been the times when Apple shifted CPUs. Like when they went from the m68k to PPC, and then from PPC to x86. At least in the latter case they had Rosetta, so it wasn't quite the same kick in the teeth. Then there's also the shift from Mac OS Classic to Mac OS X which was a clean break. And of course 10.6 will only run on x86 based systems, so all the old PPC systems are left in the cold. You have to kind of pity the poor ******** who bought some of the last PPC systems before the shift to x86.

Your overall point is largely sound, but some of your details are a bit off.

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Classic and OSX

While doffing my hat to your knowledge of Mac processors, I would like just to say that , whereas it is correct to say that the OS X system was a clean break with OS9 and its predecessors in the sense that it was a totally different kind of system altogether, nonetheless Apple made the break palatable in that OSX was runnable on the then popular iMac lines including the first Bondi blue one, and OSX continued to give support to Mac OS 9 by supplying the Classic environment with several versions of OSX for some four years in all, from 2000 to virtually 2004. Support for Classic only ceased with Tiger and X.3 Panther still supported the Classic environment fully for running older Mac OS 9 applications.

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True, but the Classic mode was pretty horribly done. It basically loaded the entire OS into a virtual machine, and systems at the time really just didn't have the resources to do that well. Rosetta, OTHH, is completely seamless. Granted they only have to emulate a CPU instruction set, not an entire OS API, but the way Apple talked up the Classic environment, you'd think it was a seamless integration into OS X.

I had a 1.2GHz iBook G4 w/ 768MB of RAM once, and it came with 10.3 and the Classic environment. That laptop was a powerhouse by the standards of some of the first machines to run OS X, and it got bogged down pretty quickly when the Classic environment was loaded, let alone DOING anything.

To be fair, this was before hardware level virtualization came along, but I'd have to say that it being palatable is a bit of a stretch.

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Classic and Classical proverbs

I see what you mean, Jimmy. But the point is that Apple did make the effort not to completely cut off OS 9 users. As to whether it was "palatable" is perhaps a question of personal taste. As the old Romans said: "Re gustibus non disputandum est"!

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thanks, really nice answer

thanks a lot

very comprehensive answer

I will actually go ahead with buying a machine from Amazon.

I have already send them my query about ilife11.

thanks a lot, really helped a lot

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I am not a fan of Microsoft by any means,and I think their OSes are overpriced.I run Ubuntu and other Linux OSes on most of my machines.But on what planet are you paying $500 for a windows OS? New complete OEM versions can be had for $70-$90,way less for students.Upgrades are about the same,or less if you buy a 3 or 5 family pack.I realize you are a apple fanboy,but why would you need to lie to make the apple OS seem superior? If anyone is trying to get %00 for a windows OS from you-run away.Giving you the benefit of the doubt,maybe you were foolish enough to price something in Bestbuy and they are high,but not that high. I doubt you bothered to even do that.You dont need to disseminate total fabrications to people who need good information to make Microsoft look bad,they do a good job of that themselves.So does Apple,they make people think they are getting some special piece of tech,when what they are getting is a PC with OSX on it.I welcome any educated response that can prove anything different.Wake up,build yourself a computer for under $500,install virtual machine, then run Linux windows and OSx on it all at the same time if you like,because they will all work on it.Microsoft,Apple and all the major computer manufacturers make fortunes selling designed obsolescence because of ignorance and laziness like that being fostered by you

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I think

I think he's referring to the full retail price. And in particular, a lot of companies like to pull stunts where they just change the dollar sign to a pound sterling or euro sign, never mind the fact that exchange rates for dollars to pounds is close to 1:2, so UK residents end up paying around 2X as much.

I admit $500 would be a bit of a stretch, even for the "Ultimate" versions at full retail, but maybe not as much as you might think at first blush.

And running OS X on anything but Apple hardware is against the license terms. It's technically possible, but it typically requires far too much work and too many tradeoffs to be worthwhile anyway.

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prices in Europe and GB

Quite right, Jimmy. You have grasped the essential point that when US computer technology hits Europe, they just stick a pound or Euro sticker over the dollar sign and this makes it very much more expensive than in the States. After years of observing Apple in Europe I can say that they do exactly the same, which was why I guessed that Snow Leopard would cost $29 dollars in the USA. Prompted by curiosity a few minutes ago to see what the actual price is on BestBuy, I see that it's $29.99! Since over the past 5 years or so the Euro has been mostly 25-50% higher in value than the dollar, that means that we pay for Apple stuff more by that percentage. And you think that Apple and Windows systems are expensive in the States!
As for Britain such techniques do mean that paying in pounds sterling you have ended up paying double the American price. Brits pay for consumer goods more than anyone else in Europe, I believe.
I looked up Windows 7 Professional in BestBuy too just now, and I see it is sold at $299.99! If you substitute there the ? symbol for the dollar, that would be getting on for a price equivalent to $600! And here we are not even speaking of the Ultimate version, which is not price-listed there. That is my answer to geod988 who maintained about my $500 figure,that it was a lie and pure pro Mac propaganda. He would appear not to have heeded all those euro prices I gave and to have assumed I was giving the American price of Windows 7, whereas I was converting prices in Britain earlier this year into dollars so Americans could understand how expensive it could be.
Far from being some Mac fanboi, a concept which is a purely US one and refers to the gilded youth of the States, the spoiled sons and daughters of corporate America who show off their MacBook Pros and Airbooks in Californian coffee shops lounging by the Pacific or excite the envy of the less fortunate by showing off at school, we Europeans are basically at the mercy of corporate America for computer equipment. The question then tends to be: what machine is most likely to
be reliable and enable me to keep my job and get the work done? In view of such products as Vista and the rain of PC malware, many decide that they must bite the bullet and pay for the added security of a Mac. That has nothing to do with being a fanboi. In France for instance most lyc?e teachers seem to have Macs. They are not people who want to swan around the coffee houses showing off. They merely want to be sure that at six in the morning they are going to be able to get that text out of their computers and take it to school for their lessons or the exams they are setting.
In my case I only took an MBP when it became clear to my wife that the new Mac mini involved a major screen problem. We found that we needed a 15"inch screen if we were to fit it in on the desk, but PC manufacturers had virtually stopped making them. The cheap screens were far bigger now, and the cost of the few remaining 15" inch ones had rocketed to the point where it became more sensible to buy an MBP with its built-in 15" screen. And that at least would fold up small when not in use and avoid our having to take the PC screen off the desk all the time to stow it underneath. Again we bit the bullet. As yet we do not regret it.

My judgement on the expense of Microsoft actually stems from the rather unfanboyish wish to try and install Windows 7 on our MBP, after its purchase early this year. That would involve buying a retail copy of Windows 7. I then read an article that said that MS was planning to make sure that only the most expensive versions of Windows 7 would be installable on Macs, and the same for MS Office. That led me to investigate how much that would cost, and I reeled back in horror, saying I would never install MS at that price. I feel now that the article was probably the product of some MS shill, who was trying to scare Windows users into not going over to Mac, by giving them the impression the cost would be prohibitive.
Rechecking prices today I see they have come down considerably on reputable sites like Amazon in the Euro zone. Doubtless earlier this year sellers were profiting from the newness of Windows 7 to make a super-profit. It takes a bit of time for the competition process to start kicking in.

To return to the issue of operating system pricing, it should be obvious to those who are not blinded by "fanboi" hatred or who fail to see the wood for the trees owing to their preoccupation with technical minutiae, that there is a reason why at Bestbuy we find that Windows 7 Professional costs in the US ten times as much as Snow Leopard. Microsoft is a software company. It does not make and sell computers. Apple is a computer manufacturer. So long as Apple makes a healthy profit on their machines, they can afford to supply the software and new OSs at cheap prices. But Microsoft has to make bumper profits on the software it sells since that is its main product. If it sold its OS at the equivalent of Mac OS prices, Microsoft would be bankrupt in no time.

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$500 Windows OS??

I have never seen such a price either. The worst I ever saw after much research from many sources was $279 for pro version of Windows 7. What sparks me is whether an OS is something I may buy a family pack like you mentioned, or multiple user license for at a good price? I've never shopped for family packs, but might. I'm in the market to get Lion for 3 Snow Leopard Macs and Windows 8 for 5 Windows 7, Vista, and XP computers. I see you run Linux too, and I have had success triple booting three different versions of Ubuntu when each one had separate aspects I liked enough to keep rather than overwrite. I'm wondering about dual booting my Macs with Lion and Snow Leopard for the same reason. One respondent thinks that I won't need to do this is I might be able to keep all my Snow Leopard apps running as they are on Lion. What do you think, being you're like me and a Linux user?

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$500 Windows, Lion,

"I have never seen such a price either."
Sure, well go and click on BestBuy and you'll find it's still at a maximum $299.99, and that's in America, not back in Europe, and not Ultimate. And basically I wanted to compare Snow Leopard's price with the most advanced version of Windows 7.
Of course you won't find it at that price (the equivalent, I restress, the foreign currency equivalent of $500 ) in America. But if you persist in ignoring the fact that the rest of the world exists, like so many do in America, you'll remain ignorant of the international pricing strategies of corporate America. Ignorance is bliss, they say.
So far as finding any pricing for Lion or Windows 8 as yet, I fear you're going to have to wait a long time, particularly for the latter. Same with the question of what is going to still run on Lion amongst your present applications. All we have had is a very short sneak peak on the Apple site talking about some of the "exciting new features". Only when the application is finally on general release will we know, and then only by trial and error, what has to be replaced or upgraded. After all there are thousands of applications that will run on SL, produced by many different companies. We do not know what you have on your computer or even how much is Apple, how much third party. And much depends on the third party and how quickly if at all they upgrade drivers etc.

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$500 Windows, Lion

I expanded my research and found that there are deals on OS family packs, and even with 5 lincenses, Apple offers Snow leopard for $49. maybe Lion will be that reasonable too. Windows 7 has a family pack upgrade for $239. Still better than $500.....

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Why do you continue to ignore the fact that from the point of view of the discussion and my original statement the dollar price within America is irrelevant, since I am an Englishman discussing the prices in Europe, and the dollar equivalence of those prices. Every European of any sense knows that the price is far cheaper in America, just as the price of petrol is at the pump. I can only assume that you still fail to understand the point or that you are in bad faith. If the former read Jimmy Greystone's "I think" over again and you might suddenly click. If the latter, then there is very little further to be said any more.
Furthermore for your Windows 7 data, it is pretty useless when you neither specify the company nor the country for which you found the info. For Windows there is no fixed or recommended price, so there is an enormous degree of variation on the market. For Apple there is a price that Apple tries to impose in each particular country on its dealers and stores, and so individual bargain offers that are out of line are generally not to be had.
As for Lion, this is all speculation, but my guess is that Lion will cost a bit more than Snow Leopard, but that guess is pure speculation, too.

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I happen to be a Scottish woman who shops for the best price online. The best price may be in the USA, China, who knows? I am very sorry if this discussion sparked so much anger from you. If you're being shafted, that's indeed wrong, and I'm again sorry. It's unethical to charge some customers more than others.

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your title was the trouble!

Thanks for the clarification. It was not clear to me what you were trying to do, especially as you had taken over the title used by geod988 so it gave the impression that you were climbing onto his trollish bandwagon. Furthermore you had replied to him and ignored my explanation which was given considerably earlier (several hours), and you seemed to think he would help you with "dual booting" your Macs merely because he used Linux, when it should have been clear that he was one of those ex-PC gone-over-to-Linux people who only put in a brief appearance on a Mac Forum in order to insult those who buy and use Macs. Basically a Linux troll. While treating us as idiots, he gave a suggestion we should run our Mac OS on a self-built PC, a suggestion that was both illegal and totally impractical and would get us into deep hot water with Apple. And what about all those security and other updates one needs to download from Apple? Clearly he was not someone to be taken seriously on a Mac Forum. Why should we, who already have Macs, pay extra for constructing a PC machine that will run MAC OS only if we are real techies and run it badly at that. But you succeeded in ignoring the two longtime Mac users on the thread and turned for help to the Linux troll. Naturally he did not reply to you, since he must despise you for using Macs as much as he despises us. And why should he help you dual boot on a Mac when he has probably, as so many anti-Mac PC or ex-PC users, never owned a modern Mac?
Having just checked your profile I see you have only just joined CNET Forums so perhaps that has something to do with it. Nonetheless the incredibly rude nature of geod988's letter should have made it clear he was a troll. I know that a lot of people fail to change their title to suit the nature of their message, but failing to do so can mislead, since one assumes that the message is an argument in support of the title.
Nonetheless, welcome to CNET Mac Forums! Personally I see no problem running Snow Leopard and Lion on two different partitions of a real Apple Mac, so long as they are genuine partitions and not just user partitions (accounts). If you need help doing so, just post a new thread on CNET Mac Forums once Lion has actually come out.

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Just sayin'

I don't know much about Windows later products as I use Snow Leopard and XP.I am sure however that somewhere along the line I've seen an expensive boxed version of Windows "something (Probably Vista)" for between 4 and 5 hundred dollars her in Australia.I don't know what the USD$ value at the time would have been.

However I was interested to find out what Windows 7 was going for these days.The first place I looked (,I found this:

Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate, 64-Bit, DVD, Single Pack, OEM (GLC-00736)
SKU: 39090312 Mfg. Part Number: GLC-00736 More Info SPECIAL $210.00


At the current exchange rate that equals USD$209.78.
Maybe that English guy has a point (as well as empty pockets!).

Gee,and I thought I had it bad.

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Why not to tell them

thanks for your answer.

I have posted this question here because this was a suggestion I got it in one of the answers to my old post.

I have to say it was a good advice.

Old answers were not bad, so nothing to tell them

thanks for your help

These posts have really helped me in making my decision

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