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Let's all be happy that the US Special Forces have captured

by Ziks511 / October 6, 2013 3:14 PM PDT

Abu Han? Al Libi in Libya. A long time high ranking member of Al Qaeda and on the arrest or kill list, and the man who is suspected of the Embassy Bombings in Africa 15 or so years ago. He's being brought to the States for interrogation and trial, or so I understood earlier in the day.

Apparently an attack was carried out in Somalia against Al Shabab, or Al Shishkebab as they will be known if the attack turned out well. The last news I saw was still unclear as to how successful that attack was.

I don't know if anyone else has been sitting down wondering, "How come the US, the most capable military force in the world has had a string of disappointments going back to Desert One?"

Two coordinated virtually simultaneous strikes on targets over 1500 miles apart by two separate groups, conceivably of different components of the US Special Forces (no information yet) is a significant feat.

Hope the Somalia raid turned out well, and the US Forces got away unscathed.

Behaviour which goes unpunished is repeated, Behaviour which costs the perpetrator dearly tends not to be tried again.

Regarding the Somali Pirates, There was a cargo vessel in World War 1 called a Q Ship. It was a tub, and was sent out to attract German submarines. At that time, Subs attacked primarily on the surface. As soon as the Sub ordered the ship to stop, the sides dropped down revealing 4 inch and 6 inch guns which shot the sub to pieces. Hang a rusty old tanker out off the coast of Somalia with .50 calibre mgs, and 20 mm and 40 mm FF cannon and see how long the pirates last.

Rob

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Actually
by TONI H / October 6, 2013 8:29 PM PDT

the string of disappointments as you call them began during the VietNam era, when politicians instead of the military leaders began dictating strategy. Our military IS the best in the world (Israel's come a close second not in training but because of numbers) because of how they are trained and their determination and dedication to the job, and would be more successful if the politicians would take off the gloves and let them do what they know how to do best. What's the point of all that training if you have PC politicians pulling them back from actually winning a war or battle? You have more frustrated military personnel, even up to the top tiers, over the last 50 years than you ever had in the first 150.

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I may be wrong, but I understand that many covert ops in
by Ziks511 / October 7, 2013 3:17 PM PDT
In reply to: Actually

Viet Nam came off very well, it was the larger War which was less well carried out, partly because of failures of or the absence of a clear over-arching strategy, and partly because of the fight which went on between the Military and the Administration. LBJ felt handcuffed by the civil opposition he was suffering, Nixon's performance was deliberately undertaken in the teeth of that opposition, and from my perspective having been there among those opposing the War under Nixon, it suffered none of the holding back that Johnson had chosen to exercise. There were considerable increases in bombing in the North, incursions into Cambodia, and Laos, which upset those of us who were unhappy with the entire exercise.

We do have a right to have held those views, and we did have the right to express that opposition which under Johnson was generally carried out peacefully.

It wasn't until the Police Riot in Chicago in the summer of 1968, and the subsequent Nixon regime during which things became uglier. Nevertheless, Nixon, according to his memoir, went out in Washington after 11 PM by himself in mid May, 1970, as I understand it, and spoke to the students protesting the killings at Kent State who were in Washington and was in his words treated civilly and with courtesy by the students.

The great change observed in the strategy for Desert Storm in 1990 was quite remarkable when compared with the piecemeal approach used in Viet Nam. I think that both Colin Powell and "Stormin'" Norman Schwartzkopf were both greatly influenced by the ragged and ill-coordinated efforts in Viet Nam, and clearly learned from them and I was greatly impressed by the cohesiveness and coordination of the operations. I disagreed with the limited scope of the operations which did not include Baghdad and Saddam Hussein, but anyone can second guess people bearing the enormous weight of command from the comfort of the US or Canada, so my views aren't germane in any way.

I'm unclear who conducted the planning for Operation Eagle Claw, to Desert One in Iran to rescue the Embassy Hostages back in 24 April,1980, under Carter. I assume that it was the Joint Chiefs military planners who chose the numbers of aircraft and helicopters and troops. There is certainly no reason to assume that it was the Carter Administration who planned it, just as there is no reason to assume that Barack Obama and Hilary Clinton, who planned the operation which killed Bin Laden in Abbotabad.

Rob

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Those directly involved in Eagle Claw
by Ziks511 / October 7, 2013 4:14 PM PDT

Pentagon planners are not named.

The mission was commanded by
Maj. Gen. James B. Vaught
Col. James H. Kyle
Col. Charles A. Beckwith

8 killed and a C-130 and a Sikorsky CH-53 Sea Stallionchopper destroyed in a collision during the pull out and at least two others left behind owing to equipment failures during the run in which cost 3 helicopters of the older Sikorsky type.

Evac was intended to be from Manzariyeh Air Base in C-141 Starlifters. US Army Rangers were intended to capture the Air Base.

Rob

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You pretty much made my point
by TONI H / October 7, 2013 4:59 PM PDT

LBJ 'felt stifled' and bent to the 'popular' pressure as did politicians in Congress up for re-election.....they began calling the military shots.

Bush 1 left the strategy for Desert Storm to those who knew what they were doing. However, Congress and the politicians there are the ones who dictated that he could only go so far and not finish the job or SH would have been history during that war.

Bush 2 was mostly successful in both Afghanistan and Iraq by also leaving the strategy to those who knew what they were doing, and when the second wave was needed, the Dems had control of both Houses and pushed back because of the 'popular' pressure again.......and BO took eight months to decide on that second wave and even then publicly announced fewer troops than was needed and a pull out date.

BO and HC didn't plan anything to do with OBL.....it was left up to the ones again who knew what they were doing and all he had to do was give the ok.....and it was successful for that reason.

When politicians dictate strategy, things go wrong and get turned upside down every time. Their job is to only give the ok and provide the funding....but too many for too many years have overreached their authority and dictated strategy as well, tying the hands of those who need a free rein to get the job done or most of it is wasted effort and wasted lives.

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Well then, at least Barack Obama and Hilary Clinton deserve
by Ziks511 / October 8, 2013 4:24 AM PDT

credit for letting the professionals decide what needed to be done and not interfering. I respectfully disagree regarding Iraq 2. I think that it blunted the operation in Afghanistan and turned it from a reasonable success into America's longest inconclusive war. I also think that the Iraq invasion just convinced the lunatic fringe of the Muslim world that they were right about The Great Satan, and radicalized people who wouldn't have been radicalized. But that's just how I see it. No disrespect is intended to the military in either theatre who fought hard and did the very best they could as always. And the US wasn't alone in Afghanistan. A lot of Canadians fought and died there, which takes nothing away from the US effort.

To me the splitting of forces was reminiscent of Viet Nam, a decision made by the President for personal or political reasons which interfered with the military's ability to complete one job conclusively before going on to the next.

But that's just my opinion and how I saw the conflicts from far, far away.

Rob

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More revisionism
by Josh K / October 8, 2013 4:46 AM PDT

1. Nice try attempting to blame Congress for Desert Storm not "finishing the job." Bush I understood why "finishing the job" would have been a disastrous idea. We had a true coalition in that action and he understood that it would be destroyed, because many of those countries joined on the condition that we not take Saddam out. Additionally, Bush I tried to warn his son not to go in because it would end up a quagmire, which was exactly what happened.

2. You're blaming the problems in Iraq on Obama? I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I presume you're also blaming him for the numerous mistakes that were made long before he became president. Bush wasn't anything remotely close to "mostly successful" in Iraq. The fact that we were there in the first place based on bad intel was only part of it.

3. I don't recall anyone suggesting that Obama or Hillary helped plan the bin Laden operation. The president was given several options (including bombing OBL's compound). He reviewed them all and approved the one that was executed.

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Colin Powell
by James Denison / October 8, 2013 5:42 AM PDT
In reply to: More revisionism

was to blame for that first one. He was the one who convinced the president to not enter Baghdad. Schwartzkopf was for finishing it up proper. Later he turned his back on those who'd promoted and feted him to endorse Obama. He'll never get a vote from me if he runs for an office where I'm a voter.

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So Far
by itsdigger / October 6, 2013 8:42 PM PDT

I've only heard Army Commandos carried out the missions

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Somali pirates
by James Denison / October 6, 2013 10:43 PM PDT

I"ve had idea of a boat that looks ripe for the pickings on top a submarine moving along the coast. When the pirates board it, just dive. Private boats could have some poisoned food stocks, so even if they are killed by pirates, they know the pirates will be dying soon too.

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simplier to just have sub follow a prime target
by Roger NC / October 7, 2013 12:31 AM PDT
In reply to: Somali pirates

cost effectiveness problem is never knowing when they will strike which boat.

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As I understand the news, Delta Force went into Libya
by Ziks511 / October 7, 2013 2:42 PM PDT

to get Abu Anas Al-Libi and did so expertly. He is currently on a ?destroyer in the Mediterranean being interrogated by the FBI and Homeland Security.

The Somalia mission was reportedly by Seal Team 6 in fast assault boats. They were spotted by Whatshisname's guards and a subsequent fire-fight, the possibility of an air-strike was called off because there were too many non-combatants including children in the large compound he lives in. Apparently the assault on Somalia had long been planned, well before the assault on the West Side Mall in Nairobi. I'm sufficiently convinced that his days are numbered.

Despite the fire-fight Seal Team 6 retired in good order with no casualties.

Rob

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