Speakeasy forum

General discussion

Lesser of two evils?

But since the U.S.-led invasion swept Saddam from power, Iraq?s majority Shiite Muslim community has risen to power and worked to build close ties with Iran.

Iran, however, has been accused of supporting insurgents in Iraq to destabilize reconstruction efforts by the United States, which regards Tehran as a terror sponsor bent on producing nuclear weapons. Iran denies both claims.

Al-Jaafari, who led anti-Saddam militiamen based in Iran during his two-decade exile, has said Iraq now wants positive relations with Iran.


Another case of helping replace a "bad guy" (Saddam) with an ally for an enemy(Iran) of the USA.
Discussion is locked
You are posting a reply to: Lesser of two evils?
The posting of advertisements, profanity, or personal attacks is prohibited. Please refer to our CNET Forums policies for details. All submitted content is subject to our Terms of Use.
Track this discussion and email me when there are updates

If you're asking for technical help, please be sure to include all your system info, including operating system, model number, and any other specifics related to the problem. Also please exercise your best judgment when posting in the forums--revealing personal information such as your e-mail address, telephone number, and address is not recommended.

You are reporting the following post: Lesser of two evils?
This post has been flagged and will be reviewed by our staff. Thank you for helping us maintain CNET's great community.
Sorry, there was a problem flagging this post. Please try again now or at a later time.
If you believe this post is offensive or violates the CNET Forums' Usage policies, you can report it below (this will not automatically remove the post). Once reported, our moderators will be notified and the post will be reviewed.
Collapse -
dont worry more scum will die

In reply to: Lesser of two evils?

its a great day to have a turkey shoot

Collapse -
It's mainly innocents dying now, Mark.

In reply to: dont worry more scum will die

Is that the kind of Turkey shoot you relish? I certainly hope not.

Dan

Collapse -
whos killing the inocents not us

In reply to: It's mainly innocents dying now, Mark.

were killing the killers or would you rather we didnt?

Collapse -
Mark, I think you should know that under

In reply to: whos killing the inocents not us

International Law, the U.S. as the occupying power, is responsible for the well-being of the Iraqi people.

The US tactics on the ground are responsible for more Iraqi deaths than the insurgents.
Don't forget of course the whole DU nightmare already unfolding in the South and Central parts of the country.

Collapse -
well just look at the mass graves from saddam

In reply to: Mark, I think you should know that under

i think these people are better off, but then you dont agree.

and were doing whats needed to stop the insurgants were killing them on the spot.

and as were not responceible for the inocents as were not killing them as its there own so called peacefull muslums

Collapse -
We aren't doing the killing of innocents. Sometimes there is

In reply to: It's mainly innocents dying now, Mark.

a price which people must pay for freedom. The US paid a terrible price in the Civil War.

Collapse -
We haven't killed any

In reply to: We aren't doing the killing of innocents. Sometimes there is

innocents in Iraq?

Dan

Collapse -
not intentionally dan

In reply to: We haven't killed any

but go ahead turn on your blinders

you seem to be very blind to the obvious.
allways trying to sart a flame war

remember you work for us

Collapse -
I'm sure that does not make

In reply to: not intentionally dan

one bit of difference to them or their families.

Dan

Collapse -
but it should as we dont just bomb any one

In reply to: I'm sure that does not make

like there scum do.

and as we try to use guided weapons and use control on return fire our troops are in jeporady but as you wouldnt relize that if it was a snake and it bit you on your nose.

your still in your la la land inocents died yes but the killers are 99% from the brave sucide bombers.
have you complained about that?
OF COURSE NOT! you rather biotch about the good were doing.

you and your kind should scuttle away and remeber this

you work for us keep it up 08 is on its way

Collapse -
Perhaps you've seen a story that talked about how US troops

In reply to: We haven't killed any

said; "Hey those people are innocents. Let's go kill them." I haven't.

I wouldn't be surprised if, in attacking those who need to be killed, some noncombatants where killed by one side or the other. Those things happen in a war.

Collapse -
Just because it's an accident does

In reply to: Perhaps you've seen a story that talked about how US troops

not make the innocents any less innocent or any less dead. The motives of their killers is slight comfort.

Dan

Collapse -
KP you better do a little looking into this subject.

In reply to: We aren't doing the killing of innocents. Sometimes there is

U.S. tactics and munitions are causing many casualties among the Iraqi people.

You can't expect to deploy Cold War munitions in urban and suburban areas and expect little or nothing in the way of civilian casualties.

The U.S. makes no secret of its use of Cluster bombs and 500 lb. 1000 lb. and 2000 lb. bombs in combat agaist insurgents.

Collapse -
same bs

In reply to: KP you better do a little looking into this subject.

what about the guided munitions?

and what about the enemy useing mosques to shoot at us from and hospitals to store ammo, where were you then?

didnt see you saying once they shoot from a mosque its not a holly place, as we had to wait to return fire.

some inocents die for others to live free, id rather die trying to be free than live as a captive.

Collapse -
Mark the ''guided munitions'' are rarely guided at all

In reply to: same bs

They have been proven time and time again to be 20% accurate most of the time, If you can find me a source which says otherwise,please show it to me.

But let's get real Mark. How accurate can you be with 1 and 2000 lb. bombs dropped on civilian areas. The same goes for Cluster bombs.

You should know better than most Mark, that the U.S. army is still,in many ways, a Cold War army. The munitions it uses were designed to destroy massive Soviet formations sweeping acroos the plains of Eastern Europe.

Mark shooting out of Mosques makes Mosques fair game.

Can you verify this claim that insurgents were using Hospitals to store ammo? I googled it and could not find much on it.

How about the U.S. closing off access to hospitals leaving Iraqi wounded with little or no medical attention:

---The two hospitals were ''forced to shut down'' after US Marines took positions on the roads leading to them. Iraqi hospital officials in Al-Fallujah report 600 Iraqis have been killed in the fighting there so far and that more than 1,250 people have been injured. The Iraqi sources said more than half of the dead are women and children.

Some members of the US-appointed Iraqi Governing Council strongly criticed the US military over civilian casualties in Al-Fallujah. They said the US response has been disproportionate and indiscriminate.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/fallujah.htm

Besides the Iraqis can use whatever they want to fight the American occupation. No one told the U.S. to invade Iraq Mark. This is all the responsibility of the Bush administration.

Blaming outgunned insurgents is scapegoating and nothing more.

Collapse -
your saying guided dont work shows your lack of

In reply to: Mark the ''guided munitions'' are rarely guided at all

knowledge about them wont evean try to explain
geesh an other armchair warriors

Collapse -
Perhaps you should provide links that verify your claims.

In reply to: Mark the ''guided munitions'' are rarely guided at all

You can start with the 20% accurate and 2000 lb. bombs dropped in civilian areas. Of course, we wouldn't expect insurgents to be in these locations as targets. If they were, then we would never know who was fighting and who was not.

Collapse -
Actually KP

In reply to: Perhaps you should provide links that verify your claims.

I'm relly not going to waste my time providing you with all sorts of links that you and Mark won't accept.

Here's a few to get you started:

Please note that there are too many factors, ie. wind, software failure, natural and man mande obstructions etc. to call these wepons reliable.

http://www.bard.edu/hrp/resource_pdfs/nichol.precision.pdf

http://www.providence.edu/mba/goodrich/war/surgical/

The common smart submunition, Pearcy asserted, can be delivered within 50 meters of a target from an artillery projectile, a rocket or missile.

The common smart submunition, if successful, would replace the now defunct ?search and destroy armor,? or SADARM, which the Army fielded in small quantities for 155 mm projectiles. The Army cancelled the program as a result of rising costs and schedule delays.

While SADARM had a 75-meter radius footprint, Pearcy said, the new weapon will have a footprint of 50 meters or less, which will help keep the costs down.

Critics contend that the U.S. Army should consider replacing the SADARM with existing munitions that already are in service with NATO countries, such as the Smart 155 or Bonus, rather than develop a new one. But Pearcy said the Army does not believe other munitions can meet its requirements.

and also:

Current systems are intended to be area-suppression weapons, and are far from surgical, noted Stephen R. Pearcy, director of fuse and precision armaments at the Army Research, Development and Engineering Center. Typically, only 3 percent of artillery rounds hit a 100-by-100 meter target area accurately from a range of 40 km, he told an industry conference of the Institute for Defense and Government Advancement.

Many rounds have to be fired to hit a target, he said. ?The efficiency is not all that great.?

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/issues/2004/oct/Cannons_Rockets.htm

Collapse -
and as the laser guided hit what aimed at means nought

In reply to: Actually KP

you should write a book on fiction as you say it

Collapse -
No idea what you just said Mark

In reply to: and as the laser guided hit what aimed at means nought

But all you have to do is look at the % of precision missiles and other precision munitions that the U.S. uses and then compare how many actually hit the target or the probability that they will hit the target. Most of them have a target area radius of 50-100 metres.
You also have to take into account how many munitions of thew US are laser guided. Conventional rockets, artillery and bombs dropped from planes are still quite inaccurate.

But who really cares anyway? When you drop Cold War munitions in civilian areas, does accuracy really matter?

100,000 civilan dead and counting.

Not to mention wounded & disgured permanently.

Collapse -
and not to mention we bomb

In reply to: No idea what you just said Mark

military targets but go a head beleave your fantasys makes you be able to justify your dislike of the usa were tough were used to it

Collapse -
As usual Mark you never read any of my responses to

In reply to: and not to mention we bomb

you so you don't know what you're talking about when you say something about me.

I am going to assume you will read this.

If I'm anti-American Mark, why did I support the interventions in Bosnia, Kosovo, Somalia, East Timor and Haiti?

Collapse -
I see the problem,

In reply to: Lesser of two evils?

what is your solution or suggestion? Or are you just posting reading assignments?

Collapse -
Response

In reply to: I see the problem,

Or are you just posting reading assignments?

Every post is a ''reading assignment''.

Some will get a response, some will not.

Some posts will cause the reader to think about the post , some readers will use the original post as the base of a soapbox, others will use it as fodder for their cannon and some will look at the poster and not read the post.

My suggestion would be to find a method of ''knowing how to develop 20/20 hindsight'''.

I think in order to have 20/20 hindsight you must plan for all possible scenarios before you start the program. I realize it is impossible to see what is going to happen 10 years down the road, sometime you can't tell what will happen next week. But a country should have a plan.

The situation in Iraq should not be a surprise with one religious group in Iraq allying with the same religious group in Iran. Religion supersedes all borders in the mid East.

Some parts of the US are having issues with certain religions voting for a certain political party, so, it is not much of a leap to see the same thing occur in the mid east.
Collapse -
Hindsight?

In reply to: Response

These eventualities were considered before we invaded.

Dan

Collapse -
Either way we (the US) might lose something

In reply to: Lesser of two evils?

We can abide with a dictator that murders his own but whose presense in power aids our other personal interests or we can disown the tyrant though these interests will suffer. Sometimes one must decide what is the right thing to do, do it, and take the consequences. Our enemy's enemy is not always a friend and sometimes there's no win-win. So, shall we stand on principles or slink away from doing so? Some will be critical of the US for any action or inaction we take. Determining what is right is not always easy and keeping to ones principles is often harder. Every day you will see parents yielding to a kids desire for a cookie by giving them one rather than withholding it for good reason. This is, on a small scale, what we do with international relationships.

Collapse -
the world stood by while hitler killed 6,000,000

In reply to: Either way we (the US) might lose something

this time we didnt stand by

Collapse -
No, the world (except

In reply to: the world stood by while hitler killed 6,000,000

the USA, Aussies, English and Polish) stood by and some made a tidy little profit. Others concealed their greedy, selfish motives and got support from Canada and other countries.

Even more disgusting is the profiteers. Like the stories coming out about the Swiss banks of WWII.

Collapse -
the USA new and waited also

In reply to: No, the world (except

but your right on the profiteers.

if your ever in dc go to the holocaust museum.

it will make your blood boil.

i lost 3/4ths of my famially to the nazi swine

Collapse -
Mark

In reply to: the USA new and waited also

i lost 3/4ths of my famially to the nazi swine.
A lot of this you owe to the USA for their cowardice and saying that hilter was no threat to the usa so why get envolved.Deny this if you like but I will not reply to BS when I know this to be fact not fiction.

Popular Forums

icon
Computer Newbies 10,686 discussions
icon
Computer Help 54,365 discussions
icon
Laptops 21,181 discussions
icon
Networking & Wireless 16,313 discussions
icon
Phones 17,137 discussions
icon
Security 31,287 discussions
icon
TVs & Home Theaters 22,101 discussions
icon
Windows 7 8,164 discussions
icon
Windows 10 2,657 discussions

SMART HOME

This one tip will help you sleep better tonight

A few seconds are all you need to get a better night's rest.