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General discussion

Leopard Freezes on my 2005 e-Mac

Dec 1, 2007 7:31AM PST

In February 2005, I purchased an e-Mac, G4, PowerPC, 1.25 GHz, 1.25 GB RAM (changed to 2 sticks of 512) 80 GB HD, Superdrive running OS X-Panther (10.3), with i-Life 05.

I am one of those experienced Windows users who switched to Macs.

This month, I decided to change OS from Panther to Tiger but, Leopard had been just released about a week earlier so, I purchased OS-X-Leopard and did an "Archive and Install" of Leopard. I meet all the requirements and, after adding additional memory, I should not have had any problems. But, the Mac freezes and I have to force it to shut down.

I called Apple Care 4 times. The first two times, I ended up in India and got disconnected both times. The third time, I spoke with an Indian whose English was unintelligible but, he finally told me to press 4 keys and restart the Mac to do a "PRAM". It did not work. The fourth time, I spoke with an American who knew Macs. He had me do another "Archive and Install" of Leopard again. It seemed to be fine but, it wasn't long before the Mac froze again and it keeps doing this. I am using my Win XP/Home computer to ask for help on C/Net.

The Apple Store just sells Apple Products. They do not service them. Not even memory or installations. So, I took my Mac to Fry's Electronics where I buy all my Windows products. It was Fry's who sold me the memory sticks and, reluctantly, installed them. Fry's also sells Apple products.

I really need to do something quickly. Either successfully install Leopard or re-install Panther. I wish that I had purchased Tiger which now is a great up-to-date OS but.... I cannot find anyone who has Tiger for sale. If I cannot do this, I will have to re-install Panther and i-Photo 05.

P.S. I also purchased i-Life 08 and i-Work 08 to install on the e-Mac after Leopard was installed and working well.

P.P.S. I did download updates for Leopard (4 including Keychains, i-Tunes and Quick Time and 10.5.l).

If this was a Windows platform, I would not have any trouble changing OSes or Upgrading an OS. But, I am not experienced enough with Macs to fix this problem. I did find a store, MacMedia in nearby Scottsdale that not only sells but services Macs but, they are expensive and I would also like to be able to do this work myself.

Thank you in advance for any help anyone can give me.

Discussion is locked

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I'm tempted to say RAM here.
Dec 1, 2007 11:02PM PST

I sounds very much like a RAM problem and the only way you can prove it is to remove one of the 512 sticks and just go with the one.
If the problem still happens, change out the sticks and try again.

Your initial install of Leopard should have been an "Upgrade" and not an "Archive and install". It probably was as the A&I option should not have been available.

Try the RAM and let us know.

P

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I have a slight temptation to write about...
Dec 1, 2007 11:54PM PST

Cleaning vents, heatsinks and maybe even a teardown then build it back up with fresh heatsink compound and the usual fan check. I'd also test the disks.

Bob

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Apple Stores do not service their Macs?
Dec 2, 2007 11:46AM PST

Are you kidding? I'm not sure what you mean by this, but the Genius Bar guys worked on my Mac the other day and are having it sent out to have new parts installed. You day you've called Apple Care, so that may imply that you have it, and if you bought the eMac in 05, you still have a little warranty left. Take it to Apple, and have them run some hardware tests or run TechTool yourself.

There was an article on Low End Mac where the author's two eMacs both had problems, and by taking both apart, replacing faulty parts in one of them with parts from the other, and cleaning out all of the dust that built up inside, he managed to get one fully functional eMac out of two damaged ones. The other doesn't do anything now I suppose, but he found LOTS of dust or something, so Bob's right, clean it! I doubt the drive may have anything to do with it, but memory seems to be the case indeed.
Or the graphics chip may have issues... That's my guess.
Really, take it into Apple. They can help. Fry's sells Macs, but they sure don't know them as well as Apple does. Or so one would think. Take it to the Genius Bar. Your conscience is asking you to, or maybe that's just my repetitive phrases, Wink

-BMF

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Apple Store services or repairs Macs?
Dec 2, 2007 4:04PM PST

Yes, BMF, I was sure that the Apple Store neither serviced nor repaired Macs. I went into the Apple Store-Biltmore in Phoenix about November 5, 2007. I wanted to change my OS from Panther to Leopard. The Genius Bar needed an appointment only posssible to make an appointment online. One salesperson let me make an appointment on a Mac but...the earliest appointment was 48 hours later.

I spoke with several salespeople. Some did not know if my e-Mac was a G3, G4 or G5. My sales receipt said G4. Two salespeople took me over to where the Leopard solftware was displayed and we went through all the requirments. My e-Mac met requirements. But, since I only had the bare minimum of 512 MB (2 sticks), I asked a salesman if I could purchase two sticks of 512 each to double my RAM. He went to speak to a Genius who was not happy about being interrupted and said, "We don't sell memory and we certainly don't install it. Tell him to take it someplace else and buy the memory and install it." I was listening to this conversation. I had only agreed to purchase the e-Mac in February 2005 which only had 256 MB of RAM if I could buy an additional 256 MB of RAM and have the Apple Store install it. They did. I paid $75.00 for the stick and they installed it free.

So, now, it seems BMF, that you are telling me to take my e-Mac into the Apple Store and ask them to fix it? Well, I'll tell you what. Just for fun, I will make an appointment for Tuesday, December 4, 2007 (if this is not too early) and I will let you and everyone else know what they say.

If they do not sell RAM and do not install it, I am not sure exactly what they do besides sell boxes.

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Yes, I am telling you that they will service your Mac.
Dec 3, 2007 8:01AM PST

The problem you had was you need a Genius Bar appointment to take it. Since you didn't have one, and the regular employees may not know what you're talking about, the appointment with a Genius will be the only way for Apple to help you out here. I've been to 3 Apple Stores I believe, and all three service them. I can't imagine why this one store close to you wouldn't.

First of all, Apple does sell RAM. I was considering buying some the other day for my iMac, and I was talking to some Apple guys about it, and they can install it for you if you need it. Though generally, people do it themselves. Check the Apple Store site and look. Under Mac, there will be a section called "Memory" and there will be sticks listed for whatever models they offer RAM for. Last I looked, they offer eMac memory. Anyway, the Genius you overheard must be wrong or was indeed in a bad mood. They sell RAM and they have it for your machine. They should install it if you ask since you should still have Apple Care.
Why would they think that your eMac could be a G3 or G5? The only G5 machines were the iMac G5 and the PowerMac G5. The eMac was only produced with G4 chips. Unless they thought it was an iMac G3, which is very different. They only shared a common design as an all-in-one machine.
Anyway, all Apple Stores that I've been to, seen, or heard of have technicians in the back who can help out with Mac or other Apple hardware problems. How else do you think they can customize a Mac in store for you? They most certainly installed the extra 256MB stick for you, so putting in new ones is no problem. All the stores can help.

It is good that you're going, and make sure to have them pull up your remaining warranty, tell them the problems, and ask them if they can test and replace the memory. You can't get any technical assistance without an appointment anymore. I remember that about two years ago, I could walk in, ask for help with an iPod, and they'd help me with what I needed. Now, you need an appointment to swap out broken headphones which before, I could walk in and ask for a new pair. How times have changed. If you are doubtful about their "service", then call the store and ask them if they are able to do what you need them to do for your appointment. Helps.
-BMF

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I'm confused about the original memory in this machine
Dec 3, 2007 10:16AM PST

I keep seeing 1GB as the max for this two slot machine and yet the original post claims 1.25Gb. Hopefully this was a typo.

Meanwhile, have you removed one of the sticks yet?

P

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It's 1 GB
Dec 3, 2007 11:49AM PST

He does only have 1 GB of RAM... two 512 MB sticks. Maybe he was tired when he wrote it...

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Thought it must be that
Dec 3, 2007 8:49PM PST

I would still like the OP to remove one stick and test from there.

P

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mrmacfixit. Thank you.
Dec 4, 2007 1:52PM PST

The e-Mac came from the factory with 1 stick of 256 MB of memory. I knew instantly that this was not enough for a Windows computer and, I would NOT purchase the computer and software UNLESS the memory was doubled. So, after I paid for it, the Apple Store sold me another 256 MB stick of memory AND installed it. I returned about 1 hour later and took possession of the computer.

I was tired and angry and frustrated when I wrote my note in the forum. I was absolutely honest but, I did make a mistake as another person notices and another person yet figured out. I was tired and had my shoes on so I could not count correctly. I now have 1GB of RAM and NOT 1.25....sorry.

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Today's Tuesday (I think :-) ) so what did they say?
Dec 4, 2007 7:45AM PST

Any help from the Genius Bar? I traded my laptop in for help, LOL. I miss that thing. Oh well, pays off to finally get a working one in the end!

My G4 iMac only has a 1Ghz chip with 756MB of RAM, so your RAM must be defective or faulty in this case like everyone else has said. I got the blue screen of birth on he first install of Leopard, but after some troubleshooting, I managed to get it running. Leopard runs fantastically on it now. And your eMac is more powerful than this iMac anyway, so once you find the problem and have it fixed, you will get better performance than I may have (theoretically). Let us know how it goes.
-BMF

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Thank you fellow C/Netters
Dec 4, 2007 1:47PM PST

On Sunday, December 2nd., I got so frustrated that I did a clean install of Leopard. I did not back anything up and I was beyond caring. I was ticked off at the Apple Store.

I did download the 4 updates including i-Tunes, Quick Time and 10.5.1. The same problem of freezing occured. I checked Apple's website and there were a lot of promises made about excellent customer service, etc. So, I made an appointment on my Sony and got one at 6:40 p.m. tonight. Earlier, I found out how to actually talk to my Apple Store and asked for the manager. He was very nice and could not believe what I had been told and what I had overheard a man at the Genius Bar tell a salesperson..."We don't sell and service anything; we just sell." He asked me to bring in my e-Mac and nothing else and come into the store and see someone at the Genius Bar. I did. The new man at the Genius Bar had someone come out to my car and bring it in for me. He ran a test using Disk Warrior and rebuilt the directory. Then, after using the e-Mac for 1 or 2 minutes, it froze. He checked and it is the motherboard! It is under warranty and in stock in the store. I left it there and it will be ready no later than the day after tomorrow to be picked up.

If I had been treated this well and helped as well as I was by this young man, I would not have wiped out Panther, all my files, etc. trying to fix something that I personally would never have been able to do. Fortunately, everything on the e-Mac is also on my Sony and I did use Time Machine to back up the e-Mac when Leopard, i-Life 08 and i-Work 08 was installed so, I will take my extended hard drive and perhaps someone at the Genius Bar will be able to save my files, applications, etc. If not, I will just transfer the information from the Sony and the Sony's extended hard drive back to the e-Mac.

Isn't is strange how one employee can ruin a store's reputation by some irresponsible and incorrect remark? The salesman did not say anything to the man at the Genius Bar. He either did not know the Apple Stores policies or what the Genius Bar can or cannot do.

So, once again, I would like to thank everybody on C/Net for once again helping me out of a very frustrating situation. I would also like to thank Sony and MS for a machine and OS (Windows XP/Home) that I was able to use while the Mac was not working.

I have never had a defective motherboard before from Win 95 to XP to Mac Panther and Leopard. The man at the Genius Bar said that Leopard uses the motherboard more so than Panther and..this is what cause the motherboard to fail.

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Pleased you got it sorted out
Dec 4, 2007 8:49PM PST

That was an interesting comment from the Genius Bar person. Leopard uses the logic board more so than Panther and this caused the logic board to fail.

Guess we can look forward to a whole slew of failed motherboards now.

Anyway, enjoy Leopard.

you should be able to use time machine to bring all your files back without too much trouble.

P

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All's well that ends well-William Shakespeare
Dec 6, 2007 2:05AM PST

With the tremendous jump in sales of all Apple products and the incredible profits earned by Apple, I am really surprised that the Apple Stores are not better run than they are...or at least, the store in the Builtmore Fashion Plaza in Phoenix.

The day of "the incident", there must have been 20 salespeople eager to show off all of Apple's products and explain them and sell them. There were only 2 geniuses at the Genius Bar. Each one had one customer and there were no other customers lined up when the salesman who tried to help me was told to his face (and to mine which was about 3 feet away) that "We only sell things; we don't service them."

Many years ago, when I worked as a teller, teller supervisor, operations officer and management trainee, the bank sent in "secret shoppers" to see if we treated the customer courteously, answered any question, cross-sold products and services and offered to help the customer in anyway. If we did all of these things, we were sent $25.00 (1973-75 lol) and a copy of this award went to our branch manager who used these to give us pay increases. If we failed to do all the things required, the branch manager received a letter explaining what we failed to do and he or she discussed these failings and how to improve our performance. I never failed to meet or exceed the requirements. So, I got a lot of $25. checks, a lot of promotions until I decided that banking was not what I wanted to do in life.

Had I been the store manager at the Apple Store, I would have wanted to know the name of the person involved, checked to make sure that he was one of the two men working the Genius Bar that day, determine which salesman was told this misinformation and match what I said against what he said and had a frank discussion with the "genius".

I was also shocked to call Apple Care and get India. For this reason, I do my best not to buy any product or service where Customer Service is in India. Someone has lied to them for decades. They have been learning Russian, Greek, Basque, etc. and they have been told that this is English. After studying computers (Windows and Mac), they must never have actually touched a computer until the day I call. Three phone calls to Apple Care in India; two disconnected after waiting a long time, one successful completed call and do a PRAM Test? Fortunately, the fourth call was to an American or Western Canadian who spok one of the various English dialects that I comprehend and was very thorough and helpful. But, in the end, it was all the men and women here on C/Net that encouraged me to check the Apple website and look at what my warranty and help available at the Apple Store (much more explicit than it was in 2005). Without your encouragement, I would have had to go to MacMedia in Scottsdale or Peoria and I understand that they sell and service Macs...I suspect that this is where the Apple Store sends Macs that need repair or parts that the Apple Store cannot perform. Perhaps, though, they send the item(s) back to a central repair facility. But, the MacMedia stores have a fine reputation according to local Macfans.

I agree with mrmacfixit. If changing OSes from Panther to Leopard damages motherboards, there will be a lot of demand for motherboards, etc. I am sure that this will happen changing from Tiger to Leopard, also.

Thank you all, yet again, for all your help and I hope that this experience helps others here on C/Net Forums. Ask to speak to the Store Manager and let him or her know what his store is or is not doing well. Good luck!

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Too bad Apple doesn't sell some mobos instore.
Dec 6, 2007 10:46AM PST

Perhaps it may only be from more dramatic upgrades such as yours. Going from Panther to Leopard is a bit more demanding than from Tiger to Leopard, but the machine shouldn't have had any issue. But it did, and at least it's been fixed. I don't think that newer technology that came with Tiger installed will have any issues, save the new iMacs.

-BMF

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That's what happened to my MBP
Dec 5, 2007 8:15AM PST

but it was having minor problems before Leopard. Today's my fifth day without using a Mac... I have come to hate my Windows machines even more right now.

What the Genius at the Store told me was that either the AirPort Card was defective or that the board was unable to read it and use it correctly (something like that). Thus, it gets sent out to have those parts replaced. I can only hope they do a good job. No matter to me though, because even if it fails to work right afterwards, they may have to swap the machine. Then I get a new Core 2 Duo laptop. Yay. Happy

Anyway, good that they helped you out. Told you that they would help you Wink. So I take it that they will replace your mobo? Wouldn't want a good G4 to go to waste, unless they offer to give you an iMac. LOL. Why would some employee even say that they don't service their products? That man should be fired. But I have met Apple employees who aren't the most helpful. One of the Apple Stores that I visit on a few occasions has a terrible group of guys. Took one of my iPods that had a dead audio channel in to swap it and the Genius guy wasn't too enthusiastic on helping out. At least the refurb he gave me worked. Oh well.

Glad you got some real service.
-BMF