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General discussion

LCD TV Research - refresh 60Hz vs 120Hz

Jan 19, 2009 2:08AM PST

I am currently researching purchasing an HDTV LCD TV. Most research has pointed to purchasing a Samsung. I have looked at several models (mostly 46"), and some have a refresh rate of 60 Hz and some have 120 Hz. How important is this difference? Is it that noticeable, or is it not a big deal?

Discussion is locked

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120Hz...
Jan 19, 2009 3:43AM PST

suzycat1,

One of the benefits of 120Hz is the fact that the picture can refresh quicker, which is where many critics note is critical in getting a good picture with LCD panels. It improves fast motion and the processing allows the television to show a smoother picture on LCD than ever before. So the noting of 120Hz is not just a catch-phrase (some stores will insist that 120hz IS the "way to go"...) but the reality is that there is a noticable difference and improvement in picture quality.

Does this mean anything to the casual user? It depends. Right now, 120Hz is ideal for Blu-Ray movies, video games and fast action television.

I hope that helps, and if you have any other questions, please let me know.

--HDTech

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120hz
Jan 19, 2009 4:20AM PST

HDTech, I just saw your response to Suzycat as I posted mine. Thanks for the input.

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No problem....
Jan 19, 2009 5:00PM PST

I understand that there are lots of people who are skeptical about some of the marketing surrounding high definition television and just want solid answers to understand what they're purchasing.

That's what we're here for. Happy

120Hz is actually one of those technologies that has a noticable benefit as well as a measurable one, both technologically and usually by the human eye.

We can talk about 120Hz, or any of the technologies you'd like to discuss, so feel free to jump in and ask questions. No purchase necessary!

--HDTech

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LN46A630
Jan 21, 2009 3:33AM PST

Hi HD Tech, I am debating between Ln46A650 vs LN46A630. I want to know if 630 has a 10 bit panel or 8 bit panel.
Thanks

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Panel specs
Jan 21, 2009 7:35AM PST

I can't quote panel specs, as we don't list those in our specifications.

The best judge of a panel is the picture.

--HDTech

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46A630 vs 46A650
Jan 25, 2009 9:27AM PST

Hi HD Tech:
Thanks for all of your information. I have narrowed it down to the 46A630 and the 46A650. Can you please tell me what the differences are between these two models? I have a spec comparison, but I want to know what the differences will mean in the world of watching TV, not in the world of just comparing numbers.

Can you also comment on the newer 950 series that is coming out? Is this the brand new LCD technology? How soon is this line going to be available on the market, if it isn't already? Are the differences substantial in picture quality?

Thanks!
Suzycat1

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Differences
Jan 26, 2009 10:47AM PST

Suzycat1,

The A630 is 120Hz, and the A650 is also 120Hz.

The A630 has a 40,000:1 contrast ratio, and the A650 has a 50:000:1 contrast ratio, which can be noticible, but not like "night and day" noticable to some people. That's one that you'll have to look and see if you can decipher the difference in picture quality. That's really the ultimate test.

The A630 has 3 HDMI ports, the A650 has 4 HDMI ports.

I don't want to risk suggesting one over the other, so I'll leave that in your capable hands.

The 9-Series is currently out and on display. What makes it different is instead of having CCFL's (Cold Cathode Flourescent Lamps) behind the LCD screen, we have LED backlighting. Each of the LEDs operate independently and can dim or go off, depending on the picture being shown, which makes a huge imporovement in dark scenes and color capabilities. I'm not sure, but I believe there are no less than 54 individiual lights behind the screen, and that local dimming produces more greys, colors and darker shades of black. The contrast ratio on that is 1,000,000:1, and although I'm not sure how that translates in comparison to the other units, that is our flagship, top of the line model of LCD this year.

So I hope that additional information helps.

Keep me posted!

--HDTech

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A550 v A650
Jan 30, 2009 1:18PM PST

Hi,
I am about to purchase an LCD TV. Based on the reviews I read Samsung is a pretty good purchase. However, I can not decide between A550 and A650.
Is there a noticable difference between picture quality (120 v. 60)?
Which is better for glare? Should I even worry about it? I am in a room with lots of windows but not a lot of sun.

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650 vs 550
Jan 30, 2009 9:53PM PST

Hi Asivas
I am certainly not an expert, as you an see from all of my posts on this discussion. Everyone has told me the 650 has a better picture than the 550. I went to Best Buy to see them, and I feel that I could see a difference in the picture. I'm sure if I saw the 550 only, I would think it was fantastic. But next to the 650, the 650 looks better.
Everything I have read says glare should not be a problem with either. I think the plasmas have more glare issues? If anyone disagrees, please chime in!

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120Hz and InfoLink
Feb 1, 2009 2:32PM PST

Thanks for jumping in, Suzycat1.

Two things (to the original poster) you might want to consider is the 120Hz Auto Motion Plus feature, which does deliver a smoother picture in fast action scenes. That will be in the A650 model, but not the comparative A550 models. This feature is noticable most on HD and Blu-Ray.

As well, the A650 series in those sizes also offer InfoLink, which is a live RSS feed that offers stock quotes, news and local weather (excluding Florida and Michigan, from what I've seen reported). Again only available on the 6 Series and up.

So if either of those features are important, it might be worth considering.

Hope that helps a little.

--HDTech

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LCD TV Research-refresh 60hz vs. 120hz-
Jan 19, 2009 4:13AM PST

Suzycat...I have the same question...just took delivery of my Samsung 40" LN40A550 (60hz) model, and I'm sending it back. Too much blurring while watching hockey, for example. But I'm not convinced this well known LCD issue will be fixed with the 120 hz model (the LN40A650 model), though. I've seen some posts elsewhere indicating that the 120hz upgrade isn't worth it. Can anyone out there confirm that the motion issue/blurring is less noticeable (or gone) for sports viewing with the 120hz model? Thanks.

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HD makes the biggest difference for sports
Jan 20, 2009 8:09AM PST

When we watched our first football game on our new LN45A630 I was disappointed. It was an SD (standard Definition) cable signal. Then we upgraded to High Def cable (cable box). Our next football viewing was INCREDIBLE. There was absolutely no comparison. You can also turn on the Auto Motion Plus feature which some people like to use in viewing sports. Ours is set to Medium. I think the HD input is the critical element in sports viewing. As Mr Samsung said the primary benefit of 120Hz is Blu-ray and watching film that originates in 24 frames/second.

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60hz vs. 120hz
Jan 20, 2009 9:19AM PST

Thanks, Nautiduck. I'm very likely to upgrade to the 120hz model to help with that motion blur issue.

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Maybe it's the source?
Jan 25, 2009 1:15PM PST

It's sometimes hard to tell if motion blur is coming from the source or from the TV. CNet actually posted an article about motion resolution on the site awhile back (http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10020262-1.html). Here's a quote:

"For one example, we watched a high-definition football game with the best display in the test (the Pioneer PDP-5020FD plasma) placed right next to the worst (the Samsung LN46A550--the only LCD in the test without a 120Hz mode) and we found it hard to detect more blurring in the Samsung LCD, even when paying close attention to potentially blurrier areas, such as the hash marks when the camera follows a kickoff downfield or the churning legs beneath the return man. For two displays with such disparate results according to the test pattern, I think most people would expect to see more of a difference. "Difference" is the key word here; we did perceive a good deal of blurring in many fast moving shots on both displays, but either that blur was inherent in the source (usually a consequence of quick camera movement) or was a consequence of the brain's inability to process fast-moving details. In any case, most of the blur we saw couldn't be faulted on the displays."

So I don't really know if getting a 630 would help (it could be that CNet has a poor HD feed also, I guess...).

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60hz v. 120hz
Jan 25, 2009 10:38PM PST

Thanks, Clicq, that's a helpful post and the article you linked was informative.

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60hz vs 120 hz
Feb 9, 2009 4:34PM PST

I am looking to buy a 40" lcd and I found a used LNT4081F , which is a 2007 model, was Samsungs best for that year. 500,000:1 dynamic contract with LED backlighting. I would like to know how this tv compares to a new LN40a650. The technology of the older TV is 60HZ but with LED motion plus vs 120hz with the auto motion plus of the new TV. I know the older has a gaming mode as well. Good one for HD tech.

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Replied...
Feb 10, 2009 7:46AM PST
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Blurring on LCD and 120hz
Jan 26, 2009 12:21AM PST

I don't watch much hockey - but as a real life example of how the 120hz feature works, I got my HD satellite receiver last week. The first time I tuned into CNBC in HD I saw that the stock ticker that scrolls across the bottom had severe blurring of the letters. I enabled the auto motion feature at just the low level and the letters were immediately razor sharp. Now this is not fast motion, but the effect was very, very noticible.

I experimented with fast-motion scenes using my PVR and with auto motion off - you saw blurring on the screen, but if you did a freeze frame it was sharp. Clear evidence that the LCD was causing the blurr. Enabling auto motion always sharpened up the fast-moving images. In the cases where it was still blurry - if you stop the motion even the freeze-frame was blurry which indicated the camera or video source or compression along the way was causing the blurr, not the TV.

I have a LN52A750 and I never knew such incredibly sharp video was possible. No movie theater I've been to presents as sharp and clear of an image as this TV does. I recommend the 120hz monitors very highly!!!!

Now... given how sharp this is - any chance it would work with 3-D content? Has anyone tried this??? Up to now 3-D is only advertised as working with plasma monitors.

Craig

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3-D
Jan 26, 2009 11:14AM PST

Craig,

The current line of monitors/LCD Panels do no support 3-D. I think the necessary hardware to make a 3-D image is just too fast for the LCD technology as it stands right now. I know we are exploring it, and it was a hot topic for many booths at CES.

I'm personally curious to know, despite the hype, what the market will pay for 3-D additions, glasses, and upgrades. At this point, it's a bit of a process and requires some additional hardware. Is it justified? I've seen some pretty cool 3-D HD feeds recently, and while it's always fun, how widespread will it's popularity be?

You are correct. Plasma has the ability to do 3-D, as do the Samsung line of DLP units. We have partnered with TriDef in the past, and I believe there is (was?) a Samsung 3-D package in the works.

Here is a Samsung panel that doesn't require glasses, although I have no idea how the technology works, I thought it'd be neat to share this. I took this picture at the iCES show, and I'm shocked it came out on film the way it did. It was equally impressive in person.

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp60/samsung_hd_tech/SDC12132.jpg

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp60/samsung_hd_tech/SDC12131.jpg

I believe it was a film placed over the panel that did this (and I think this was a plasma unit), but it's fun to look at some of the possibilities.

Anyway, I saw that and thought I'd add some fun stuff.

--HDTech

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120hz on info line
Jan 29, 2009 3:54PM PST

I had my LN46A650 delivered today and find the same issue. When pressing info 60hz is displayed even when 120hz is selected. I would be very interested on the reasoning as well.

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Info Button...
Feb 1, 2009 1:06PM PST

When you press the INFO button, what you're seeing is the incoming signal. The signal will always be processed so that the picture you're seeing will always be 1080p and 120Hz.

--HDTech