General discussion

Laquan McDonald Video Shows Police Shooting Him 16 Times

Has anyone been following this story here in Chicago ?
The officer was charged with murder today but it's been over a year since the shooting. The video is pretty graphic Here so beware
I hope we don't have another Ferguson Missouri situation here

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that's a full clip plus one in the chamber

Hopefully the police require empty chamber on all guns police carry to avoid accidental misfires.

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Reminds me James.

In my army times, when you were asked by an NCO/officer to present your weapon for inspection, you removed the magazine, cocked three times to eject any in the breech, and then presented your weapon so they could look down the breech whilst declaring "this weapon is clear".

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my oldest

She is a weapons instructor now at Lejeune in NC for the US Marines. She likes it better than her previous job as welder.

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Apparently not

This officer was the only one that fired his weapon so I would say he has one in the chamber at all times.

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Watching CNN

and protesters are already forming up

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that's dangerous

The semi-automatics when dropped can go off quicker than a dropped revolver that's not on an empty cylinder. The revolver usually has to hit right on the hammer, but the semi-automatics can go off even on a side hit. I used to have a .25 auto in 70's that would double fire sometimes. I had to always remember it might do that.

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I'm been meaning to ask this for months.

Post was last edited on November 25, 2015 9:22 AM PST

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that's just foolish crazy!

I've been wanting to get a HighPoint from an Ohio maker. I have a friend who's let me shoot his Beretta 9mm at the range, a sweet gun, but I'd like to try a HighPoint and the range doesn't have one for rental.

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I have a couple of friends

that have guns with no safety so yeah I guess it's true

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RE: that's a full clip plus one in the chamber


Chicago police officer Jason Van **** emptied his pistol and reloaded as teen Laquan McDonald lay on ground during barrage; cop charged with murder for firing 16 times

A Chicago police officer spent 13 seconds firing as Laquan McDonald lay prone on the street, emptying his pistol and reloading even though the black teen never made a motion to fight back, according to charging documents released ahead of video showing the deadly 2014 shooting.

Officer Jason Van **** was held without bond on first-degree murder today. If convicted, he could face life behind bars.

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(NT) That does make more sense
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there are smaller size clips

The max is usually a 15 round clip.

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I could wonder what the officer saw...or thought he saw

It was nearly 10:00 and dark with the exception of street and stray light. Could he tell whether the kid had a knife or a gun?

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could he find a tree

to step behind if unsure?

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or maybe a police car?

I think I saw 3 in the video.

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Yes, several cars

including probably his own. You can see the flash off the knife in the dead man's hand as he's walking, it's possible in the dark that would have been appraised as a gun, but I suspect it was already on the radio that he was armed with a knife.

The officer was far enough that only if the knife was tossed at him would it stand a chance of injuring him. The man didn't turn toward nor approach the officer, even had his unarmed side to the officer who seems about 20-25 feet away. The officer shot him, emptied his clip (8-10 shot clip?) and while reloading, to shoot and seemingly doing so, another officer had to stop him.

I see this as the officer just wanting to shoot himself a "thug".

However, when an officer tells you to stop, to drop your weapon, you don't run or walk away, you don't keep hanging onto the weapon. This person had plenty of opportunity to drop his weapon and to surrender but he wanted to "be the man" show them "he was the Boss", etc. He may have even been seeking "suicide by cop".

This is a situation where a taser could have been used effectively both to disarm him and probably allow two of the officers to jump him and get him cuffed.

Police face potential of life endangerment every day and should have latitude in apprehending crooks with extra force if necessary, rather than every day expected to place their life greater danger than necessary for someone who refuses to surrender who refuses to drop a weapon.

Considering how police lately seem determined to empty a clip into someone, maybe we should restrict them to no more than 4 per clip? That would force them to reassess the situation between changes of clips.

The real question I have on this shooting is why when officers were already there, seemingly had the situation contained if not completely controlled yet, did some cowboy come charging up and shooting.

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I'm not trying to find a defense but I do think the

dash cam doesn't tell everything. We see the kid running in a direction away from that police car but could a person further up the road see the kid as running toward them? We have video but we don't have audio so we don't know if he was verbalizing anything that could have sounded threatening. It's an awful shame that our police get put into life and death situations where decisions need to be made quickly and without time to collaborate with other officers as to the best option. Maybe it's better to just let 'em get away and hope they don't hurt someone tomorrow.

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RE: but could a person further up the road
but could a person further up the road see the kid as running toward them?

Was the person that shot him "further up the road"? I say No.

A person on the "other side" of the road might think he was running towards them.

Weren't some of the shots in his back?

Wasn't he laying on the ground and still being shot?

Where was he going while laying on the ground?

Could he tell whether the kid had a knife or a gun?

He supposedly "punctured a tire"...Did anyone report hearing a gunshot? No noise?.... to me that means a knife or sharp object...not a gun.
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Further up the road...I say yes.

I was speaking about the perspective from the dash cam. You can see the kid in a fast walk near the center line until the police cars block that path. He was walking in the general direction of the where the police stopped but moved to the right. I see him extending his right arm pointing with something. That something wasn't necessarily known or identifiable by the officers who confronted him from the left. I could also doubt that the dash cam video gave a proper idea of how much light there was. Sometimes such cameras can enhance a scene and make it look brighter than a human eye would see. As well, I mentioned the lack of audio. That could have been important to know. What I can't know is how I'd have reacted if placed in that situation. I'd hope that I could be better composed and not react out of panic. How do you think you'd have done that night?

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RE: How do you think you'd have done that night?

given that Investigators state that only two of the wounds can be linked to the time McDonald was standing. I would hope I have the common sense to "review the circumstances" BEFORE I fired another 14 rounds.

How bout you?

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Sounds to me like you'd have shot him too.

You'd just cease fire when he dropped to the street. If he did have a gun and was still in shape to fire back, at least it would be a fair fight. How very nice of you.

In any event, I see no reason to engage further in speculative arguments. I'm not defending him but I do think it's fair to listen to the all sides of a story before passing any sort of judgment. I rather doubt the officer did this out of meanness or anger. Most police offers never get into these situations...thankfully.

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RE: Sounds to me like you'd have shot him too.

Just because I stated some facts about the shooting?

You haven't answered IF YOU would have stop shooting after he was on the ground.

I'd hope that I could be better composed and not react out of panic.

Do you mean shoot UNTIL the perp is on the ground?

Every shot into the perp...he twitches...shoot him again UNTIL he doesn't twitch when you shoot?

Once a perp is "harmless" MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!!

On the ground whimpering.

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He didn't get the message.

"Hands up! Don't Shoot!"

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Another problem I have with this...

...the car with the best dashcam view had already come to a stop, but then when the shooting started immediately swerved to the right as if to avoid having the dashcam record the entire event.

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