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General discussion

Kerry's Enron Connection

Feb 7, 2004 9:51PM PST

Yep ... from that "rag" Newsmax, but probably the only place this will be reported:

Media Mum on Heinz Kerry's Enron Connection


It didn't get much attention back when Sen. John Kerry was a cellar dweller in the presidential polls. But now that he's the undisputed, all but certain, presumptive Democratic Party nominee, we're wondering where the coverage is on Teresa Heinz Kerry's Enron connection.

Long after Enron chairman Ken Lay had been demonized as a ruthless corporate buccaneer who had cheated widows and orphans out of their life savings, the man Dems love to invoke to beat-up the Bush White House sat on the board of Teresa's Heinz Center Foundation.

In fact, Lay was reportedly a Heinz Center trustee for more than a decade, resigning just last year. That was around the time presidential candidate John Kerry started bashing "special interests" in Washington, zeroing in on Enron by name.....


The irony of the whole thing is that apparently Lay was an environmentalist after all! Do I think this is a big deal? No. But Republicans/Bush continue to be demonized by the Enron debacle (that bloomed and ballooned under Clinton but who's really interested in the facts), including attacks by Kerry himself, so this little connection sure doesn't help him!

Evie Happy

Discussion is locked

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Now isn't that just typical of life - all is going really well - then someone drops a bombshell :)
Feb 12, 2004 8:07AM PST

NT

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Shocking! Simply shocking! How could this be?
Feb 12, 2004 11:53AM PST
Happy
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I wonder what's next...
Feb 12, 2004 11:01PM PST

I wonder what's next. Probably campaign contributions. I wonder if when ADM (Archer-Daniels-Midland Co.) comes up it'll will show that they played both sides of the political street at the same time.

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And before you guys get all giddy, let's review the Bush-Lay friendship, shall we?
Feb 12, 2004 11:04PM PST
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushlay1.html

While the White House has repeatedly described former Enron chairman Kenneth Lay as simply a "supporter" of George W. Bush, extensive correspondence between the two men paints a far cozier picture of their relationship, according to copies of letters obtained this afternoon (2/15) by The Smoking Gun.

The pages of correspondence, exchanged during the years Bush served as governor of Texas, were released today in Austin by the state archives in response to Freedom of Information requests filed by TSG and other news organizations.

The Bush-Lay material touches on both personal matters (birthday greetings and Bush's knee surgery) and public concerns of Lay and Enron, such as energy legislation and tort reform, and reflects the kind of jocular relationship that reportedly saw the nickname-happy Bush call the Enron boss "Kenny Boy."
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So???
Feb 12, 2004 11:11PM PST

Numerous and several legitimate links quoting official (named) sources and transcripts and FOIA releases from Clinton officials show that the scandal that was Enron was far more one of his administration.

This, of course, was ignored or forgotten. But of course, there's no media bias huh? Can you imagine if Lay was a long time board member of Laura Bush's foundation? Or perhaps if Laura had been the rich heiress of a Democrat Senator and Bush married into money instead of the silver spoon smear so often attached to him?

Evie Happy

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Re:So???
Feb 12, 2004 11:26PM PST

OK, now I'm confused. I thought you were shouting "A-HA!" at the supposed connection between Kerry and Lay, but now you say you're just upset that it's not getting the kind of coverage that the Bush-Lay connection got?

Could it have anything to do with the fact that Ken Lay is no longer in a position to influence policy?

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To hear Kerry speak ...
Feb 13, 2004 2:40AM PST

... he has never taken a "special interest" dollar. He specifically evokes Enron to smear Bush. His connection then seems valid if he wants to sling this particular type of mud.

http://www.opensecrets.org/1996os/contrib/S4MA00069.htm
http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/contrib.asp?cid=N00000245&cycle=2002

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/indus.asp?CID=N00000245&cycle=2002

http://www.bop2004.org/bop2004/report.aspx?aid=4

I fail to see anything different in his fundraising ... only the interests differ. Didn't know until I just now checked that he was such a trial lawyer fave. Looks like we won't need Edwards on that ticket to make tort reform a big issue in the next election. Let's see how Kerry will spin that LOL.

He doesn't have a leg to stand on regarding special interests. Read the last link in full. Interesting.

Evie Happy

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Re:To hear Kerry speak ...
Feb 13, 2004 2:48AM PST

Yup, we'll get to weigh that against the big oil/energy moguls helping shape the country's energy policies under Bush, and see how it all shakes out.

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Oh dear!
Feb 13, 2004 3:03AM PST

A very rich democrat it would seem!!!

CTIA-affiliated companies and their employees have contributed at least $152,000 to Kerry. The amount includes contributions made to his presidential campaign and his previous election efforts, his political action committees and the 527 group that Kerry formed. Verizon employees donated close to a third of that amount ($45,400).

Kerry and his wife Teresa Heinz Kerry have substantial holdings in telecommunications companies; between $17.6 million and $47.1 million of their combined fortune is held in companies with a stake in the industry, the Center's analysis of his financial disclosure form revealed. That falls in a range of roughly 7 percent to 11 percent of the couple's combined $165 million to $626 million in assets. Most of the fortune, and the stocks, belong to Heinz Kerry.



A great deal richer than a lot of the people who would be voting for him!!!!!

Good link Evie Happy

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And then, Josh...
Feb 13, 2004 2:09AM PST

And then, Josh, let's reexamine the "ChiaGate" campaign contribution scandal for Clinton and Gore, and see what the Chineese contributed to Kerry.

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Re:And then, Josh...
Feb 13, 2004 2:31AM PST

Sure, let's. In another thread. China has nothing to do with Ken Lay, does it?

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Re: Kerry's Enron Connection -- really reaching, Evie.
Feb 12, 2004 12:13PM PST

We'll let the public decide whether Lay sitting on the board of Kerry's wife's charitable foundation is a more important "Enron connection" than Bush having them as his largest single campaign donor until their collapse -- and allowing them to play a key role in setting America's energy policy in return.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Actually ...
Feb 12, 2004 11:06PM PST

... given how Enron played both sides of the fence, and there are certainly lots of huge donors on the other side too, it's time this overhyped Enron crap fell by the wayside.

Curiously enough Dave, having Lay attend any meetings as regards energy policy may not have been the bad thing you envision. If you read the whole article, you'll find Lay is actually a closet global warming buddy.

Evie Happy

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and that quid pro quo is, of course, documented and proven. Right?
Feb 12, 2004 11:19PM PST

One could as easily say that the North Vietnamese are supporting Kerry.

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Re:and that quid pro quo is, of course, documented and proven. Right?
Feb 13, 2004 1:55AM PST

Hi, KP.

As you well know, the effort to obtain the documentation is soon to come before the SCOTUS -- the case where Scalia claims that having been flown on Air Force tweo for a weekend of hunting with his good friend the defendant (Vice President Cheney) doesn't necessitate him recusing himself. I wonder -- can someone sue a Supreme Court "justice" for bias?

-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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So your quid pro quo is sheer, unproven speculation.
Feb 13, 2004 2:09AM PST

Don't you ever get embarrassed by these baseless allegations Dave?

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Re:So your quid pro quo is sheer, unproven speculation.
Feb 13, 2004 5:38AM PST

What about the unproven speculation that started this thread?

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That was the POINT Josh!
Feb 13, 2004 5:49AM PST

And what unproven speculation? Didn't speculate anything. Merely pointed out ties with Kerry too. It's like McCain all over again with his CFR legislation. Rail against it as he might, he was just as "guilty" of being "beholden" to his special interests.

The record on Enron shows ACTUAL malfeasance by Clinton admin officials or at the very least the worst appearance of impropriety anyone's seen in a long time. Same goes for Haliburton who has fingerprints all over the Balkans under Clinton.

Kerry just has no credibility slinging mud about "special interests" is the point. Since he's slinging it, he has to provide the proof (not Bush to defend) and Bush/supporters have every right to point out the hypocrisy in Kerry's camp.

Evie Happy

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Bring It On!!!
Feb 12, 2004 12:13PM PST

I wonder who Kenny Boy was influencing? I wonder if GW wants the Enron fiasco to become main headline news again? I wonder who has the most to lose if Enron is politicized???

I bet this is another issue that Kerry would say "Bring it on"!!!

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Positively McCarthyite, Evie
Feb 12, 2004 10:08PM PST

What's next, that Kerry's second cousin's best friend once babysat for a family that owned a printing facility that once took an order for some leaflets for the Daily Worker?

Reaching is right. But I guess it's a credit to the strength of Kerry's campaign that his opposition would reach this far.

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McCarthyite?
Feb 12, 2004 11:04PM PST

Did you have a straight face on decrying supposed smear tactics of Republicans as you threw this one into the mix?

It's not so much of a stretch when I hear Kerry's (thusfar) unchallenged charges that his opponents are beholden to "special interests" (in which HE includes Enron by name why?) while he is not?

His campaign has strength right now because there's nobody left on your side that appears to be able to beat him so it's time to gel behind the nominee.

Evie Happy

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Yes, McCarthyite!
Feb 12, 2004 11:05PM PST

Yes, I do. See my reply to J above.

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I know a Dem is in trouble when the old 'McCarthy' charge starts getting thrown around.
Feb 12, 2004 11:25PM PST

When you've got nothing else, scream MCCARTHY. It must be rule number 6 in the DNC handbook.

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And I know Kiddpeat is in trouble when he starts spouting the party-line....
Feb 12, 2004 11:31PM PST

...rather than addressing the topic.

If you review your history, you may be shocked to learn that lots of Republicans (including Eisenhower) also thought Joe McCarthy was a very dangerous man. This kind of accusation was exactly the kind of thing McCarthy built a career on.

I made the "McCarthy" charge because I thought it appropriate.

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You intruduced the topic of McCarthy, so why accuse me of not addressing the topic?
Feb 13, 2004 2:14AM PST

I am reviewing my history Josh, and I am finding that the Dems use this label as a slander to defeat another person's arguement. They do this because they cannot prevail on the merits of their own arguement.

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And rule 1, Kiddpeat...
Feb 13, 2004 2:14AM PST

And rule 1 must be to scream "Nixon" (grin)

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'extreme, right wing, religious zealot' has to be the 'when all else fails' nuclear choice.
Feb 13, 2004 2:20AM PST

or perhaps 'extreme, right wing, christian zealot'. I'm not sure which is worse in the Democrat pantheon. Happy

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Re:And rule 1, Kiddpeat...
Feb 13, 2004 2:29AM PST

Both men abused their offices terribly. When something reminds you of their tactics, why do you think it's wrong to say so? In the last two days Kerry has been accused of being in cahoots with Jane Fonda just because they both happened to be at the same peace demonstration (even the "shocking" photo at Newsmax shows that they aren't sitting together or even acknowledging each other), and of being in Ken Lay's pocket just because Lay made contributions to a charity Kerry's wife was championing.

That is exactly the kind of smoke McCarthy used to blow.

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And then, Josh...
Feb 13, 2004 4:48AM PST

And then, there's Detroit, and Fonda's "Winter Soldier Investigation".