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Very well said Kiddpeat - thankyou NT
Mar 2, 2004 6:56AM PST

NT

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The timeline starts there because that's when we claimed responsibility
Mar 2, 2004 10:47PM PST

by conquering the country. We haven't sealed the borders. We haven't put in place a constabulary sufficient to keep order. We haven't kept order ourselves. And as of this morning no one has seen the text of the new constitution.

Dan

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Using that logic,
Mar 3, 2004 1:22AM PST

we are also responsible for 9/11. Guess we better seal the borders, impose martial law, and impose a new constitution.

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We can't get that to work in Iraq
Mar 3, 2004 1:52AM PST

Why are you so sure we could do it in the US?

Dan

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We can't get that to work in the US.
Mar 3, 2004 6:08AM PST

Why are you so sure we could do it in Iraq?

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There was never any reason to think we could or should in Iraq.
Mar 3, 2004 6:13AM PST

My point is that it is our responsibility. Even though we are failing it is still our responsibility.

Dan

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and my point is
Mar 3, 2004 1:34PM PST

we are not responsible for terrorism. We did not start it, we do not control it, the best we can do is try to end it. Preferrably, somewhere other than in the US.

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We are not failing at all Dan - our brilliant efforts are being hampered by a lot of hot head terrorists - and that is something we can do nothing about - completely out of our hands - Got it? NT
Mar 2, 2004 6:33AM PST

NT

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Out of our hands?! Didn't we declare war on terror?
Mar 2, 2004 7:13AM PST

.
So far we have managed to kill all kinds of people except the terrorist. A few are helping us by killing themselves thank goodness.

"our brilliant efforts are being hampered by a lot of hot head terrorists"

That statement floors me, Steve. Made me smile too. Aren't those hot headed terrorists what we are after, isn't that the reason we are there?

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isn't that the reason we are there?
Mar 2, 2004 7:28AM PST

Yep! That is the reason why we are there, as part of the war on terrorists, you know, the ones that flew airliners into American buildings, and would have flown into our buildings in Britain if we hadn't grounded all flights.
I am totally floored by your total lack of compassion for the victims of these evil terrorists.
You also show a total lack of compassion for those poor people in Iraq who have just been killed by the evil people. Perhaps you think the sort of people who do that sort of thing are O.K people.

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I think you took a wrong turn somewhere, Steve. *Scratching my head*
Mar 2, 2004 8:43AM PST

.
I'm afraid you lost me somewhere along the way, I have no idea what you're talking about.

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Thinks about it Rosalie - if you continue to support the anti-Bush clan, you are giving the forces in Iraq no support - In spite of all their hard work - now that should be fairly clear to you NT
Mar 2, 2004 9:31AM PST

NT

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Should We Remain Silent???
Mar 2, 2004 2:25PM PST
if you continue to support the anti-Bush clan, you are giving the forces in Iraq no support - In spite of all their hard work - SteveGargini

Your logic skills need some work Steve. If GW sends our troops into an unnecessary conflict and gets them all killed and we say nothing, does that mean that we supported our troops? Most would say no. Supporting our troops is making sure that our Leaders don't send our troops into situations where they are killed and maimed unnecessarily...

The US was founded and built on dissent. Our Fore Fathers gave us our Civil Liberties allowing and encouraging us to question our leaders and their actions. Maybe some in the UK don't believe in questioning their leaders. But here in the US, it is our right and duty to do so...

If we don't question the actions of our leaders, what's to prevent them from following the lead of Hitler or the multitude of dictators around the world? Should we remain silent as they erode our Civil Liberties and rights? Should we remain silent if they jail those they disagree with without a public and fair trial? Should we remain silent as our economy is destroyed while debt is piled on the backs of our children? Should we remain silent just because those who disagree with us say we must???
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Sorry, Steve, but there are some things I can't support
Mar 2, 2004 3:01PM PST

.

The country of Iraq is half destroyed, thrown into chaos, thousands of innocent people have been killed and continue to be killed on both side theirs and ours, yet and because of our presence there (which is unclear), the terrorist are multiplying, increasing their bloody, deadly war, now targeting countries they never had before and other than the ones that have killed themselves we haven't made much of a dent.

I can't support that.

My prayers and admiration for the troops is unceasing.

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Re:Sorry, Steve, but there are some things I can't support
Mar 3, 2004 6:23AM PST

Hi Rosalie,
Act and think as you truly feel, no one, and that includes me of course, has the right to force you to think any other way.
Sorry about the earlier posts, I just cannot stand seeing people getting blown up, which was on our news earlier in the evening. There religion is different to mine, but I still felt dreadful. Religion shouldn't come before humanity, but it so often does.

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Steve said, "I just cannot stand seeing people getting blown up"
Mar 3, 2004 4:37PM PST

.
I think that bothers all of us, Steve, those of us for or against the war alike.

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Freedom To Regroup and Plan...
Mar 2, 2004 2:10PM PST
That is the reason why we are there, as part of the war on terrorists, you know, the ones that flew airliners into American buildings, and would have flown into our buildings in Britain if we hadn't grounded all flights. - SteveGargini

Neither Iraq nor Hussein had anything to do with 911. Steve, I'm totally floored that you continue to use this rationality for our misguided war in Iraq even after all the evidence to support it has been proven false...

When we invaded and occupied Iraq, we forgot about the War on Terrorism. Those who have the potential of causing us the most harm domestically were free to regroup and plan while our attentions went elsewhere...
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Your knowledge is as good as my logic Blake
Mar 2, 2004 2:53PM PST

You have already forgotten about the terrorist training camps in Iraq.
Huh! Did you conveniently forget about them?
I will not be posting any more in Speak easy because a post I made in support of our coilition troops was removed, thanks to your friend I expect -
Speakeasy has really hit rock bottom when it removes that sort of post.
If anybody wants to see the post that I had removed then you are free to e-mail me.
steve@sgargini.freeserve.co.uk

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The terrorist camps link
Mar 2, 2004 3:00PM PST
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A New Record...
Mar 2, 2004 3:28PM PST
The terrorist camps link - SteveGargini

LOL I thought you just stated that you would never post in SE again. That was the shortest "vacation" I've ever seen. That has to be a new record... Happy
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The Ends Justifies The Means???
Mar 2, 2004 4:15PM PST

Did you happen to notice the date on your "unbiased" link Steve???

Wednesday, Sept. 17, 2003 11:10 p.m. ED

You really need to get out more Steve. Since your "unbiased" report was made, GW, Powell, and Blair have all admitted that Saddam had no ties to Al Qaeda. Back in September of 2003, all of GW's Big Lies weren't common knowledge to many. Now only GW's greatest apologists still believe the lies. Most of the others have switched to accepting that the ends justifies the means. In other words, it doesn't matter that GW lied about the reason for invading and occupying Iraq, the Iraqi people are now better off, according to them. But after today's bombings and all the other recent bombings, it doesn't appear that the Iraqi people have much to look forward to...

I'm providing this link, even though it too is old news. But compared to your outdated link, my link was authored only yesterday...

No proof links Iraq, al-Qaida, Powell says

"WASHINGTON - Secretary of State Colin Powell reversed a year of administration policy, acknowledging Thursday that he had seen no "smoking gun [or] concrete evidence" of ties between former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein and al-Qaida."

More...

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I don't know what you're smokin, but
Mar 3, 2004 1:39AM PST

I haven't seen anyone 'admit' that President Bush lied. I do, however, think you should look more closely at your own posts with that perspective in mind.

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Turning The Other Cheek...
Mar 2, 2004 3:23PM PST
You have already forgotten about the terrorist training camps in Iraq. Huh! Did you conveniently forget about them? - SteveGargini

That's very interesting Steve. Apparently you missed the report. Saddam had no control over the small training camp in northern Iraq. He considered them as his enemies and would have killed them if he had the opportunity. They would have been happy to assassinate Saddam as well...

It seems extremely odd that even though all the experts have reported that Saddam and Iraq had nothing to do with 911 or Al Qaeda, you refuse to believe them. You accepted most if not all that they said before the war started. So it's confusing that you refuse to accept the real truth after the fact from the same people who mislead you to begin with...

I will not be posting any more in Speak easy because a post I made in support of our coilition troops was removed, thanks to your friend I expect - SteveGargini

I really don't think Roger considers me as much of a friend Steve. Your post was not removed because of your support for the troops. Your post was removed because of your outright contempt for a fellow member, who just happened to consider you a friend. As forgiving as she is, she would probably turn the other cheek and would still consider you a friend...

I don't know why you chose to declare war on your friends Steve, but you are free to do so. Don't expect your former friends to remain silent when you choose to attack them personally though...
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Right Rosalie, that's why we're there.
Mar 2, 2004 12:59PM PST

Aren't you happy that the terrorists are being confronted by our troops in Iraq, rather than by our civilians here in our streets? I am frustrated that we continue to lose troops, but I'm glad that the battle is being fought in Iraq rather than in the US. I'm grateful for the troops who are taking the battle to the enemy. Do you want something different Rosalie?

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See my post to Steve. ...... Also ......
Mar 2, 2004 3:17PM PST

.
".....the terrorists are being confronted by our troops in Iraq ......"

Are they KP? What's to be confronted, a blown up body? Once all our servicemen are out of the US doing duty overseas we civilians may very well have the opportunity to fight terrorist on our own soil.

I'm all for the War on Terror. Let's go root out the terrorist, not destroy and then rebuild countries and in the process get innocent men, women and children killed by the hundreds. Our wonderful intel seems to know exactly where the terrorist camps are, how many of them there are and who's in charge. It would make more sense to go blow them up.

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Yes, they are Rosalie.
Mar 3, 2004 1:31AM PST

Terrorists are being killed and captured and hunted every day. It would be nice if they'ld all set up camp somewhere so we could wipe them out with C-47 gunships. Unfortunately, they've not been so considerate. They've mixed in with the civilian population, and must be rooted out. We've got to go where they are, and there is no question that they are in Iraq.

Do you honestly think we'll see troops on our streets looking for, or fighting, terrorists?

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Do you honestly think we'll see troops on our streets looking for, or fighting, terrorists?
Mar 3, 2004 11:38AM PST

.
I sure hope someone is out there looking for them.

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I think that's one thing you can be sure of. (NT)
Mar 3, 2004 1:37PM PST

.

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Perhaps that is the core of the problem Rosalie
Mar 3, 2004 1:21PM PST

We declared war on the I.R.A in Northern Ireland and never succeeded that way.
We won peace there with negotiation, not war.
In case some of you don't know about our problems with the I.R.A terrorists, that went on for about 40 years or more, and it comprised exactly what happened in Iraq yesterday.
Let us hope this problem in Iraq doesn't take that long. Sad

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Not out of our hands, just out of our control.
Mar 2, 2004 10:49PM PST

That's my point. We accepted the responsibility to control such things when we conquered the country.

Dan