Thank you for being a valued part of the CNET community. As of December 1, 2020, the forums are in read-only format. In early 2021, CNET Forums will no longer be available. We are grateful for the participation and advice you have provided to one another over the years.

Thanks,

CNET Support

- Collapse -
Re:Kerry not too sure God is with us in the war on terror.
Mar 1, 2004 1:25AM PST

God is with us always. But if he is on our side is another matter. Maybe he thinks our underlying reasons are not all that christian. If it were not for the oil in the middle east, most of our military would be attending church in the good old USA on Sunday

- Collapse -
You mean we would not have responded to 9/11?
Mar 1, 2004 5:14AM PST

That God may favor flying planes into buildings?

- Collapse -
You are doing what some others are trying to do. ...
Mar 1, 2004 5:33AM PST

.

You are linking 9/11 with the war on Irag in an attempt to justify it. Won't wash.

- Collapse -
I said 'War on Terror', not Iraq. (NT)
Mar 1, 2004 5:44AM PST

.

- Collapse -
You linked them, KP, not her
Mar 1, 2004 5:49AM PST

Mary Kay spoke of oil in a reference to what she believes our real motives were in going into Iraq. You replied to that by invoking 9/11.

- Collapse -
I was asking if she really meant to make the connection.
Mar 1, 2004 6:53AM PST

The thread is about the war on terror. It is a matter of opinion as to whether Iraq is part of that war.

- Collapse -
Re:I was asking if she really meant to make the connection.
Mar 1, 2004 10:00PM PST

Bush says it is. Though I supported the war, I never bought that argument for it. Mary Kay's post suggests that she doesn't buy it either. She was making a distinction, not a connection.

- Collapse -
(NT) Message has been deleted.
Mar 2, 2004 6:39AM PST
- Collapse -
(NT) Message has been deleted.
Mar 2, 2004 11:21AM PST
- Collapse -
(NT) Message has been deleted.
Mar 2, 2004 1:03PM PST
- Collapse -
You are linking 9/11 with the war on Irag in an attempt to justify it. Won't wash.
Mar 2, 2004 3:07PM PST
- Collapse -
Current News And Views...
Mar 2, 2004 5:00PM PST
thanks a million for having my post removed - SteveGargini

You might want to find a more current link Steve. Your link is far outdated and proven false. Almost everyone who managed to convince you of an Al Qaeda/Hussein link have back-pedalled and admitted that the intelligence they chose to use was wrong. It's time for you to catch up on the most current news and views and throw your old, out-dated, and invalid links away...

Rosalie had nothing to do with having your post removed. If you hadn't personally attacked her and stuck to the topic, your post probably wouldn't have been removed. You can't blame Rosalie or anyone else for your transgressions...
- Collapse -
Re: You are linking 9/11 with the war on Irag in an attempt to justify it. Won't wash.
Mar 2, 2004 10:36PM PST

Hi, Steve.

First, Rosalie had nothing to do with having your post removed. Secondly, the following is from the very day after your link to a very right-wing site that is one of the few sources STILL claiming such a link:
Rumsfeld Sees No Link Between Iraq, 9/11. (That far back, most newspaper archives are free only to subscribers, hence the "secondary" site linked).

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

- Collapse -
Yes, KP, that's EXACTLY what she meant.
Mar 1, 2004 5:36AM PST

You really had to stretch for that one.

Dan

- Collapse -
So, our troops would be home even after 9/11.
Mar 1, 2004 5:46AM PST

I'm glad you are certain what she meant Dan.

- Collapse -
Understanding The Message...
Mar 2, 2004 3:00PM PST
I'm glad you are certain what she meant Dan. - Kiddpeat

I think it was pretty easy and obvious to understand what Mary Kay meant for people who weren't intentionally trying to distort or misrepresent her post. I'm pretty sure that Dan understood Mary Kay's post. I'm pretty sure that I understood Mary Kay's post. I even bet that you understood the intent of Mary Kay's post even though you twisted her words in your response...
- Collapse -
You must be psychic.
Mar 3, 2004 1:11AM PST

You know what everyone understands and intends. I posted a thread regarding the War on Terror. Mary Kay said, or implied, we're involved in the middle east due to our desire for oil. That certainly wasn't true in Afghanistan and is probably not true in Iraq. Some people do think that everything we do in the middle east is motivated by oil concerns. I asked her, in effect, if she meant to link the War on Terror, 9/11, with concerns about oil. I fail to see how her words were twisted in any way. It looks like you're doing some twisting of your own. Why is that?

- Collapse -
P.S.
Mar 3, 2004 1:15AM PST

I was also asking her if the troops would be home in spite of 9/11 considerations. It seems pretty obvious that we HAD to respond to 9/11, but I'm sure there are people who think that's not the case.

- Collapse -
Yup, when it comes to the 'Divine Right of Presidents' Bush stands alone
Mar 1, 2004 2:04AM PST

Bin Laden also believes God is on his side. Who's right? Of course I happen to think we are (as does Kerry, though you'd never know it from the tone of your post), but slamming Kerry for not being willing to state it as fact? Come on, you're really reaching now.

Perhaps John Edwards put it well, in his comment that immediately followed what you posted:

EDWARDS: Well, there's a wonderful story about Abraham Lincoln during the middle of the Civil War bringing in a group of leaders, and at the end of the meeting one of the leaders said, "Mr. President, can we pray, can we please join in prayer that God is on our side?" And Abraham Lincoln's response was, "I won't join you in that prayer, but I'll join you in a prayer that we're on God's side."

- Collapse -
Did he mention, Josh...
Mar 1, 2004 2:37AM PST

Josh, did he mention a reference for that quote? There's a lot of Lincoln quotes out there, and it would help a lot to know where to start. If he used it, it'll come up again, and I'd like to have the full speech in context for reference.

- Collapse -
Re:Did he mention, Josh...
Mar 1, 2004 3:17AM PST

I didn't see the debate so I don't know. If he had, I would assume it would have been in the transcript. But even if (as is frequently the case with quotes attributed to Lincoln) Lincoln didn't say it, I still like it.

- Collapse -
I linked the original post to the transcript. (NT)
Mar 1, 2004 5:16AM PST

.

- Collapse -
(NT) Then there was no need for J to ask that question
Mar 1, 2004 5:36AM PST

.

- Collapse -
With God on Our Side?
Mar 1, 2004 3:30AM PST
- Collapse -
I liked this quote.
Mar 1, 2004 5:27AM PST

'He has punished them together.' for their different offenses.

- Collapse -
I found a president who did use the quote ...
Mar 1, 2004 10:26AM PST

I have not found a reliable attribution linking the quote to a specific speech or event in Lincoln's life. I did, however, find another president who used that line and attributed it to Lincoln:

The following is from Richard M. Nixon 1972 Presidential Nomination Acceptance Speech. I couldn't resist posting it since it was from a politician who I would not have expected to use or endorse it:

During the tragic War Between the States, Abraham Lincoln was asked whether God was on his side. He replied, "My concern is not whether God is on our side, but whether we are on God's side."

May that always be our prayer for America.

- Collapse -
If Kerry thinks we're right, how hard was it to say so?
Mar 1, 2004 5:31AM PST

I can't tell, based on his quote, what he does think. How hard is it to say God opposes murder, and grants the right of self defense?

- Collapse -
Re:If Kerry thinks we're right, how hard was it to say so?
Mar 1, 2004 5:38AM PST
I can't tell....

You can tell. You're just trying really, really hard to see this in the worst possible light for Kerry.
- Collapse -
Maybe because it's not that neatly black and white?
Mar 1, 2004 5:39AM PST

.
With God on Our Side?

"........how little the war had lived up to anyone's hopes and prayers and manipulations. Both sides had tried to avoid a war. Both sides had prayed for victory in the war. Neither side had anticipated the awful duration of the war, or its side effects. By implication, all parties had believed themselves masters of the war, but the war had taken its own course quite independent of their plans. Lincoln spoke of this with astonishing even-handedness. The war had humbled both sides, including the victorious side."

http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/2002/003/19.35.html

- Collapse -
'With God on Our Side' by Bob Dylan
Mar 1, 2004 5:52AM PST