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Kerry fails to extend unemployment

by Evie / May 11, 2004 10:43 PM PDT
Kerry Fails to Extend Jobless Benefits

The only one of the 100 lawmakers not voting was Kerry

The measure got defeated by his one missing vote. So much for Bush turning his back on the unemployed. Maybe this wasn't as important to him as flying back to vote against the Unborn Victims of Violence Act.

Evie Happy
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Re:Kerry fails to extend unemployment
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / May 12, 2004 12:14 AM PDT

Hi, Evie.

Yes, it would have been better had Kerry been there. But the vast majority of the votes against cutting off debate were Republican, and Bush doesn't want unemployment extended, so let's put the blame where it belongs, and not twist it 180 degrees.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Who cares ...
by Evie / May 12, 2004 5:35 AM PDT

... fact remains that had he shown up he could have actually been able to rightly blame the opposition for this. Don't look for the "mainstream" press to highlight this dereliction of duty! LOL

Evie Happy

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Re:Re:Kerry fails to extend unemployment
by Del McMullen / May 12, 2004 7:12 AM PDT
".....so let's put the blame where it belongs, and not twist it 180 degrees....."

Good thought ! Why don't you test the argument, and let us know how it feels.
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Re: Kerry fails to extend unemployment
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / May 12, 2004 8:21 AM PDT

Hi, Del.

>>Why don't you test the argument, and let us know how it feels.<<
As soon as y'all stop shooting the messengers about the abusive treatment in a "war of liberation" that was based on totally flwaed premises and intelligence, you might have an argument -- but I doubt it!

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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A full 180.......
by Del McMullen / May 12, 2004 11:19 AM PDT

Just what does anything in Iraq have to do with
Kerry not reporting for work, and is the reason
his party lost the vote ?

Not only spin things 180, you consistently change
the subject. Typical response.

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Re: A full 180.......
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / May 12, 2004 12:52 PM PDT
In reply to: A full 180.......

Hi, Del.

Can't you see the analogies? You're blaming Kerry for not being there to break a REPUBLICAN filibuster of a vote to extend unemployment benefits, which the REPUBLICAN President (and Congressional leadership) don't want to happen. In an exactly similar vein, many Republicans (now including Tom Delay; search on his name to find the quote) are blaming the media for publishing the disgusting pictures that at the very least show a military unit that's out of control and trompling human rights, and that many (including Republican Senators McCain and Warner) fear is representative of a pattern of abusive interrogation methods -- methods that Rumsfeld is now at least partially defending (sleep deprivation, isolation, being forced to stand naked -- except for a hood -- in contorted positions) despite the fact that most experts on the Geneva convention say theyre contrary to that document. So if anyone is trying to change the topic and give them the old razzle dazzle to hide responsibility, it's the Republicans in both cases.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Gets your temperature up, huh ?
by Del McMullen / May 12, 2004 1:11 PM PDT
In reply to: Re: A full 180.......

.

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You're panicing, Dave...
by J. Vega / May 12, 2004 3:15 PM PDT
In reply to: Re: A full 180.......

Dave, you're in full panic mode, take a breath. We're talking about a member of Congress doing what he was elected to do and paid to do, repersenting his constiuents by casting his vote in Congress.
The picures prisoners being abused, Rumsfeld, the Geneva Conventions, or any other "change the subject" red herrings you toss out have ZERO to do with Kerry showing up and doing his job in the Senate.
Dave, sooner or later Kerry will have to answer questions about his voting record. he can't ignore it until the election. Say Dave, what is his total percentage of votes that he has missed?

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(NT) If you don't wasnt it twisted 180 degrees, QUIT TRYING TO TWIST IT!
by Edward ODaniel / May 14, 2004 1:14 AM PDT
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Yes, he should have been there
by Josh K / May 12, 2004 11:21 PM PDT

But if he had, the result would have been a tie, in which case Cheney would have cast the deciding vote. Guess what would have happened.

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Dogoneit, Josh................
by Del McMullen / May 13, 2004 5:04 AM PDT

Someone had a good thing going here, and then you had
to stick a pin in the balloon. Had even DK figured that
out, he would yet be touting it. Wink

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Actually, Del................
by Josh K / May 13, 2004 6:52 AM PDT

.....it's probably all the more reason Kerry should have been there. That way he'd have been able to tell the voters how **** Cheney cast the deciding vote that killed the bill.

Sad

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Re:Actually, Del................
by Del McMullen / May 13, 2004 9:11 AM PDT

For a guy that wants every side of every issue, he
sure picked the wrong side of this one for his first
move.

The worst part, for his party, it provided a big propaganda
advantage to the opposition, cause few will analyse
or even care about the facts that you pointed up.

Or possibly, the "Great Conspirators" have a mole in his
organization, and they "planned" his absence. Wink

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With all due respect, Josh, what are you talking about?
by Paul C / May 13, 2004 12:38 PM PDT

The vote in question was NOT a near tie. The actual vote was 59 - 40. As DK noted, the vote was to invoke cloture on debate of debate pursuant to the rules that Tom Daschle inveigled the Republicans to accept at the time of his seduction of Jim Jeffords to "independent" status. Had the vote passed, the subsequent vote to approve the bill would have passed, and the extension would have moved on to the House.

You'd think that, as a matter of practical politics, that the Dems would have reveled in the prospect of delivering on one of their firmly held positions. Sen. Kerry, after all, was only in Kentucky, and the vote had been scheduled in advance, so he could have made arrangements to be there. However, his no show to me backs up a pet notion of mine: that the Dems will throw principle, and any one of their constituencies, over the side if they feel that they can as a result get a bigger club with which to hammer a sitting Republican president.

However, I suspect that any attempt to wield this club will only bruise the Dems' heads...

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Re:With all due respect, Josh, what are you talking about?
by Del McMullen / May 13, 2004 1:22 PM PDT

Hi Paul,

The bruising has been accomplished, and the blame is
squarely on Kerry. Few people are as knowledgeable as
yourself on the "details"; and fewer will care to take the time
to think it out to the path that Josh put forth.

Joe Public, and particularly unemployed Joe Public, will
accept the fact that Kerry missed a vote, the only
Senator to miss it, and the extension was not enacted. The
"minor details" are not important.

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Evie said the bill was defeated by one vote
by Josh K / May 13, 2004 11:01 PM PDT

I took her at her word and didn't check.

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It was ...
by Evie / May 13, 2004 11:07 PM PDT

... I too was unaware of the nature of the majority required for passage. IAC, had Kerry shown up and voted, the process would have moved forward. Because he didn't, it is now dead in the water. I think he has only shown up for something like 28% of votes. Bush is expected to do his job and campaign, pity Kerry can't seem to handle his much less demanding job and campaign. This isn't something from that "Republican attack machine", it's simply his utter failure to do the job he was elected to do.

Evie Happy

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Re:It was ...
by Roger NC / May 14, 2004 12:52 AM PDT
In reply to: It was ...

Maybe so, but I have to note all the candidates, this time and in the past, from far right to far left, have generally been lousy at attending legislature while campaigning.

That includes campaigning for re-election as well as for a "promotion".

In fact, many of them have rather poor records in general from numbers I've seen in the past, even when not campaigning.

I don't like Kerry much myself, but he's not alone in being more concerned with his future than the present needs of his constituents.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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Re:Re:It was ...
by Josh K / May 14, 2004 12:55 AM PDT
In reply to: Re:It was ...

And let's not lose sight of the fact that if all those Republicans hadn't voted against the bill, it would have passed with or without Kerry's vote. So blaming Kerry for the bill dying doesn't seem quite right to me.

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Re:Re:Re:It was ...
by Roger NC / May 14, 2004 1:21 AM PDT
In reply to: Re:Re:It was ...

True enough, this bill and others.

But isn't the point that not voting for something he assumingly would support and it failing is a form of neglect?

While voting against something you don't believe in is fulfilling your role.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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Re:Re:Re:Re:It was ...
by Josh K / May 14, 2004 1:28 AM PDT
In reply to: Re:Re:Re:It was ...

Absolutely and I'm not absolving Kerry for missing the vote, just saying that the bill failed because a lot of other people voted against it, not just because Kerry missed the vote.

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You missed the point ...
by Evie / May 14, 2004 1:26 AM PDT
In reply to: Re:Re:It was ...

... I for one don't think extending the bennies is the solution. But Kerry is stumping about the lost jobs and trashing Bush for not extending the bennies. When he could have had a critical role in "leading", he was absent. I agree with another post of yours, he should have voted and forced the Republicans to fall on that sword if he wanted to campaign on this issue!

Evie Happy

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(NT) I didn't miss it, please see my response to Roger
by Josh K / May 14, 2004 1:29 AM PDT

.

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I still think you missed it ...
by Evie / May 14, 2004 9:53 PM PDT

... yes, there are all those evil Republicans to blame for their votes, but the fact still remains that Kerry COULD have done something and failed to show up. Kinda takes the wind out of that sail.

Evie Happy

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Actually, that's somewhat humorous, Josh...
by J. Vega / May 14, 2004 10:28 AM PDT

Josh, considering all the recent hoo-rah about the 300.000 number as the population of Fallujah, I found "I took her at her word and didn't check." to be humorous.

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I guess I'm missing the joke
by Josh K / May 14, 2004 12:12 PM PDT

You and Ed were the ones fussing over the number. I don't see the connection.

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No, you, Dave, Dan, were 'fussing over the number',
by Edward ODaniel / May 15, 2004 2:20 AM PDT

J an I were accepting whatever number y'all wanted to use and deriding the percentages and totals claimed.

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Uh-huh
by Josh K / May 16, 2004 11:20 PM PDT

Mark and Glenda were advocating killing EVERYBODY, regardless of whether it was 300,000, 200,000 or whatever. You and J were the ones focusing on Dan's choice of 300,000 as a sample number and using "percentages and totals" to divert the discussion from that simple fact.

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While true Josh...
by Edward ODaniel / May 14, 2004 1:22 AM PDT

that ASSUMES that Kerry already KNEW how the vote would turn out. That is difficult to accept since had ALL the majority voted one way there could have been no tie--there were crossover votes.

Kerry ain't no hero and he ain't no Miss Cleo either.

Besides, he wasn't well received here and those allowed in were screened to avoid his possibly having to answer embarassing questions.

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Re:While true Josh...
by Josh K / May 14, 2004 1:25 AM PDT
In reply to: While true Josh...

There's usually a pretty good idea of how many votes a major bill will get before the actual vote is taken.

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