JVC HM-DT100U D-VHS incompatibility with LG 65UH9500 4K 3D

As I tried to communicate in my post (perhaps unsuccessfully), I tried outputting a video signal via both the HDMI and component outputs, and directly from the D-VHS unit to the television.

I think a good argument could be made for returning the television - except that I did want the 3D capability (now phased out for 2017), and the the webOS3.0 (which is awesome). Too much time has passed to return the TV - although I am reasonably satisfied with it. Yet not getting the D-VHS to work is a real bummer.

I did NOT try the composite hookup, but this would only work for playing an old-school, standard VHS tapes. D-VHS and OTA HDTV programming could not be carried on the composite cable. Even if the D-VHS was somehow able to downgrade the signal to composite, it would completely obviate the benefit to having a cool, pseudo-retro device like the D-VHS - which in truth delivers an excellent video signal.

So far all of them have failed web access to many sites.

Anyhow, composite is worth a try but I messed up in pointing out that this player is likely to be only HDMI 1.x. And we don't expect it to play with HDMI 2.x ports.

One last try?

I don't know which, specific HDMI ports I previously tested my LG television with when connected to the D-VHS. Is any HDMI port on the LG TV a 1.x port?

As I mentioned, the component interface (also digital) yielded the same setting menu connection (VCR settings on the TV screen), and also failed to deliver D-VHS playback (or OTA HDTV/ STD VHS), video signals. This supports my conviction that a communication gap either exists regarding a handshake issue, or a gap in the TVs knowledge regarding an HDV signal. If the D-VHS puts out this specific, reconfigured file format (HDV) over HDMI/component (regardless of whether the source data is D-VHS, OTA HDTV, or STD VHS), and the LG TV does not understand this file format, then it makes sense that a response would come back to the D-VHS that it is connected to a non-functional port [delivering a non-signal detection alert, displayed in analog on the screen].

At the moment, I'm considering taking my D-VHS player, a D-VHS tape, and a powercord to my local Best Buy, and simply hooking it up to various televisions! I'm sure I'll get a lot of looks. :-D I won't be able to post a question/discussion with the LG website forum before tonight, but I am doubtful that I will achieve any meaningful insight there anyway.

"3 (HDCP 2.2)"

It's a shame really. Some HDMI 1.x sources are not going to work. Why they didn't install at least one 1.x port is a mystery.

Something like this.
https://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Splitter-Support-Identical-VHD-0102M/dp/B002673EW6

The idea is to mitigate HDMI handshake failures by letting this do that work.

Is this a Hail Mary pass? This totally sounds like it's worth a shot, but conceptually - I would think it would only pass along the stream (as is) to two identical outputs, and that it really wouldn't reconfigure anything.

Conversely, I should note that my A/V receiver is fairly old (non HDCP 2.2) compliant. It's a JVC RX-D702B. Accordingly, I tested and verified using a direct connection between the D-VHS device and the TV. However, is there any reason to believe that a newer A/V receiver would process the signal into a file format usable by the LG television?

The idea is that the splitter will help with HDMI handshaking since it will handshake to your vcr and on the otherside is an entirely new handshake.

It's cheap, and with Amazon Prime no risk.

Okay, you've sold me on the attempt, although I'm still not convinced that the issue isn't a processing issue at the TV level.

Separately, while I don't think it's equivalent to handshake-type process - I have in-wall wiring keystones intended for the connections to travel through. Of course, i tried to use this first, without success (on 60 Hz refresh compliant, in-wall 4K HDMI wiring). Yet, I don't know that a couple of right-angle HDMI 1.4 keystone jacks would have served the function of a handshake (more like someone lightly stepping on a water hose).

These keystones are wire are what my 4K signals from my X-Box One S travel over, and of course - as stated - I also tried direct device-to-TV connections.

So I worry there's something else going on. Be sure to get component working on another set then it should just work when you move the cables over since, no handshake or HDCP.

Okay. Well, I'll have to unwrap my older TV, and I'll try to connect and have that running, and then swap the wires. This seems a bit off though - I never had a problem with that TV, only the new one. I doubt there is an issue with the D-VHS, merely its willingness to talk to the LG 4K TV.

We all have them.

HDMI has HDCP and from 1.x to 2.x there are lots of reports about breakage.
Component on the other hand has NO HANDSHAKE. Therefore when I move that over, there is only a problem when the source has a problem. (So far.)

The only caveat about Component is that when I set it up I want it to be 1080i or p if possible then your usual UHD display will upscale that.

So, with relation to all this... are you speaking from your own general experience regarding handshake issues - or are you specifically speaking of experience with D-VHS playback?

I mention this only because of this situation's weird (unique?) phenomena. For certain - I can unwrap my older Sharp Aquos HDTV, but there has not been any specific event to suggest the component would be failing (between November and now - when it was last used). Accordingly - if it does work fine with the older TV, I will still be in the same situation with the new, LG 4K TV. As stated, I've been able to receive menu settings on the TV from D-VHS unit (likely a different, analog signal over the top), but cannot communicate the D-VHS's HD signal format (whatever that is).

I'm really interested in whether there is a solution for use with the LG TV, or whether there might be a solution with (a) different makers' model(s). It's amazing that there are no experts/developers out there for contact. I've yet to get to the official LG company forum to list this question though (can't verify the account login here at work).

Includes not only electronics design but work in surveillance DVRs. So along the way you pick up what is this and that along with workarounds for some issues and what has copy protection and not.

Since I do not own, have access to or seen that D-VHS model, I work with what I know and you have to try it.

Component should be the exit here.

Well, I certainly hope so - but thus far - not so much. I will be honest, I didn't have a free component cable long enough to run directly from the D-VHS unit directly into the TV (and of course - LG has the funky component cable adapter piece).

However, I did try the digital component cables, though my AV receiver-to-in wall wiring, and through to the LG TV, with exactly the same result as the HDMI output-input (interface with the D-VHS's settings on the TV screen - but no playback of HDTV broadcast/D-VHS film playback).

Here I setup the player and TV on a bench so the cable length would only need to be a tad over half a meter to connect to the TV.

Later on I think you revealed this setup is in a wall or such? Yup, that's going to need pulling the 4K TV onto the test bench.

Now I worry. A lot of old gear couldn't push long (say over 3 meter) cables.

Mostly 1st gen stuff and a D VHS certainly could be trouble at long HDMI runs.

I'm dubious about the issue being cable length. The max length for my in-wall section would be 6', at most 10'. all my other runs are incredibly short, and left to 2' sections if not 18". Again, we're also suggesting an image breakdown while receiving a PERFECT on-screen settings menu from the D-VHS unit - over the same cable (or component cables), onto the television screen, but with no transference of the HD/digital/HDV broadcast signal for media image playback (TV, film, whatever).

With the direct D-VHS to TV connection HDMI test, I ran 6' (max) HDMI cable (I didn't have any longer sections - although the testing would have been easier with a longer one as my components are nearer to the floor and the TV is wall mounted).

We're also presuming that this isn't a dead-language issue in terms of the TV, where the TV simply might not read the file format. I really wish there was a way to solicit a request from an LG product engineer.

Over HDMI and component it's just video signals, not files.

Component is still our best shot at HD since there is no copy protection or HDCP handshake there.

Its a mystery to me, to be sure. I definitely should try the quick-swap, with the other TV side-by-side. and a direct high-quality component cable connection. This stated, the current results are still identical between HDMI and component.

I would suspect that.

I absolutely would love to find a usable adapter - and would pay a fair amount to get one. Regarding my investigations - I've somewhat conjectured that the D-VHS may be outputting playback over an HDV/DV format, but i really do not know.

There are several computer programs that specifically are designed to transfer DV files into other types of usable format files, but, of course, this is not what we're talking about here. Here, we're talking about immediate translation and playback of a file format. This leads us back into a firmware discussion - as essentially this is what a TV does - it takes a data file and translates it to a usable image. If the translation processing is absent from a TV - it may not be able to make use of the image.

An adapter wouldn't merely be an extra connection, but a device that can process the DV file format into a usable media file. Given that the HDV files often had their own copyright protection, I don't know how this could be done unless designers created a device that translated an HDV file stream into a new, HDCP 2.2. protected format.

As OPPO is releasing their new 4K Blu-Ray audiophile player next month (*estimated), and because they have a wealth of knowledge in processing obscure file formats (such as SACD, and including the fact that their players are made to play all regions of blu-ray), I sent a message to them this morning regarding what they knew regarding D-VHS and the HDV format, and whether any type of translation of D-VHS could be included in the proposed device.

Thanks for the response James -

Yes, of course I was quite careful with that. As I tried to communicate, the settings menu for the D-VHS/VCR launch easily on the television screen. Essentially, this is an analog signal which will override any device broadcast. The settings/analog signal (can) travels on the same line as the HD signal. The point being - even though the D-VHS settings menu could be summoned, the HD playback stream (whether it be OTA TV, D-VHS, or STD VHS), would not communicate along the HD signal stream to the LG TV (whether it be travelling along the HDMI cable, or component hookup).

As R. Proffit has intoned, there appears to be communication issue that may relate to HDMI. However, I am not convinced that the breakdown is due to the hardware wiring itself. HDMI 1.3/1.4 are supposed to be completely backwards-compatible with HDMI 1.1. So while a HDMI 1.1 cable could not carry a 3D signal, an HDMI 1.1 signal should easily travel along an HDMI 1.4 cable, or interface with an HDMI 1.4 connection.

All this stated, I'm still curious whether firmware is missing from the TV that is needed to process the HDV codec (or other) that the D-VHS decks use, and I have no idea how I could solicit a request for this to an engineer or developer.

If this is an analog signal, is there no way to sent it to the RF port on the TV instead?

Oiy. No James. When you hit the control for the Setting menu - it sends an analog signal right over the top of the digital signal and masks it. Think of when you're on a TV channel, but then you click the settings menu, it's like that.

Both the HDMI and the Component outputs from the D-VHS are digital. In fact, they're 1080i at maximum capacity. The problem, is that they send a digitized signal whether the initial input was over-the-air (OTA) HDTV, D-Theater VHS (examples online), or standard VHS (which is actually analog, but ends up being output in a digital signal - even though it is still 480i at best). The point is that the visual output/input is hooked up correctly, but the two devices are not talking with each other, even though their capacity chains and wiring should allow it just fine.

True enough, there must be a working handshake to start with. The D-VHS was developed at the same time DVRs were coming into vogue. There was a lot of paranoia regarding recordings, and the MPAA, regarding whether one would take an HD broadcast and copy it to another tape (such discussion is laughable now in the age of bit torrents).

While I myself did not understand (or use) the format perfectly, my understanding is that special encoding for D-Theater tapes prevented D-VHS-to-D-VHS transfer/copying, but for OTA HDTV broadcasts, and other recordings, this was not of issue. However, the handshake element was relevant - as each time I turned on the device (during connection with my previous Sharp Aquos TV) there was a brief flicker as the two devices acknowledged each other. It like it is hitting a brick wall now with the LG.

I will try and telegraph my needs when I (hopefully) go on the LG site forums this evening. I'm not convinced a firmware update couldn't add something that might be missing at this time - but I don't know their willingness (I cannot say whether there is a proprietary codec/licensing cost).

Heck, one of my first calls was to JVC, and their (available) customer service cannot even speak to the output video codec/format.