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Just too bizarre....you can't make this stuff up.

by Steven Haninger / May 15, 2010 5:34 AM PDT
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(NT) Mad!
by MarkFlax Forum moderator / May 15, 2010 5:52 AM PDT
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The article said...
by J. Vega / May 15, 2010 7:00 AM PDT

The article said Orville paid Alcore a lump sum lifetime membership fee of $53,500. Being curious, I took a look at Alcore's web site:
http://www.alcor.org/index.html

It said many things,but a couple of them caught my eye:
Q: How much does cryonics cost?
A: Most people pay for cryonics with life insurance, and since the actual cost of that depends on your age and health, to find out your specific cost you would need to shop for life insurance. Alcor offers two options: for whole body preservation you would need a minimum policy of $150,000, and for neuropreservation you would need a minimum policy of $80,000.
Elsewhere at the site:

Current Life Membership Fees are:
1. First family member - $20,000.00 lump sum or payments over 20 years of $100.00 monthly, $285.00 quarterly, or $1100.00 annually..

Standby Charges
For Members residing in the continental U.S. and Canada: Alcor will provide Comprehensive Member Standby (CMS) to all Members (standby in Canada may be subject to delays due to customs and immigration requirements), which includes all rescue activities up through the time the legally pronounced Member is delivered to the Alcor operating room for cryoprotection.

Current Lifetime CMS charges are:
Lump Sum Payment: $4,000.00

So it would seem that out of the $53,500 he paid, Membership and CMS took up $24,000, leaving $29,500 for the actual preservation costs. But the preservation cost would be a minimum of $80,000. So is the family supposed to come up with the difference, or does Alcor demand that it come from an insurance policy that Orville had?

Finally, elsewhere on the site I found:
Alcor is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization authorized to accept anatomical donations under the provisions of the Uniform Anatomical Gift Act (UAGA) and Arizona Anatomical Gift Act (AAGA) for research purposes. These are the same state laws that govern medical schools, neurological research banks, and other scientific uses of donated tissue. Several courts have also ruled that decedents or their relatives have the right to choose cryonics based on laws that empower people to choose the disposition of their remains. For further information, read The Legal Status of Cryonics Patients.

Notice the words "Several courts have also ruled that decedents or their relatives have the right to choose cryonics based on laws that empower people to choose the disposition of their remains.".
That would seem to say that relatives of a decedent are allowed chose cryonics after the death, but in this particular case Alcore holds that they are not. It seems to me lie they hold that they can chose something if it favors Alcore, but they can't if it does not favor Alcore.

No doubt about it, it's a strange situation.

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Not to mention ...
by Bill Osler / May 15, 2010 11:09 AM PDT
In reply to: The article said...

The whole point to 'cryonics' is the hope that someday in the future a person can be 'raised from the dead' by using technology that may or may not be developed with the goal of allowing the dearly departed to resume life as more-or-less the same person.

Assuming this is possible at all (I'm skeptical) the likelihood that there are enough preserved neurons to restore anything resembling the previous personality, much less memories, is vanishingly small. We think (but nobody is 100% sure) that much of each person's uniqueness comes from the details of the neural connections inside the brain. Whether that is salvageable at all is uncertain, but once tissue decay sets in I would think that probability of meaningful restoration approaches zero.

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My thought exactly
by Steven Haninger / May 15, 2010 7:16 PM PDT
In reply to: Not to mention ...

I believe the original intention was to preserve, as best as possible, a person's body who had fallen to a disease with no cure at the time. That body would have needed to be frozen almost immediately after physical evidence of life had ceased. As well, it would have needed to happen quickly enough to prevent crystallization of fluid that would rupture cell walls and such.

I'd have to wonder just how many bodies....complete or partial....are already in such a suspended state and how long before these sort of companies begin to disappear.

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It's all about money....
by C1ay / May 16, 2010 1:30 AM PDT

I think everyone pretty much knows there's nothing revivable left to preserve. The cyro company just wanted a ruling that the remains belonged to them and therefore any balance due should come from the guy's estate. I'd think if it was really about fighting to honor the guy's wishes their victory in court would be pasted as a news release on their site and it's not.

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Looks like a new definition of habeas corpus
by Steven Haninger / May 16, 2010 1:56 AM PDT

Having viewed the Alcor site and the images of the preservation process used, it's clear that they are not capable of providing the expected service. I'd also think that the company powers that be should know they'd get a good pasting in the media for this. "Catch and release" would have been a better plan.

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make that habeas capitus?
by Bill Osler / May 16, 2010 10:04 AM PDT

I have no idea what the correct Latin would be ... just guessing here.

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(NT) good catch!
by James Denison / May 16, 2010 12:21 PM PDT
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