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"Just how dangerous a place is Iraq"

by Mac McMullen / June 3, 2006 5:42 PM PDT

On a daily basis we are reminded of just how dangerous a place Iraq is these days, with it's open warfare and insurgency. Keep in mind there is more to Iraq than Baghdad, and the three or four other cities we hear about every day.

There was discussion on the floor of the US House on May 3, 2006, that put some of this in a different perspective. That discussion offered that 27,000 civilian deaths have occured in Iraq in the past three years. That roughly breaks down to 9,000 deaths per year. This discussion further developed annual numbers of civilian deaths, resulting from violent acts, in several cities and countries in other parts of the world, using as a basis a population of 100,000.

See if anything here surprises you.

Numbers of violent deaths per 100,000 population:

IRAQ - 27.51 (including bombing and other violence)

COLUMBIA - 61.78

NEW ORLEANS - 53.10 (before Katrina)

SOUTH AFRICA - 49.60

WASHINGTON, D.C. - 45.98

DETROIT - 41.78

BALTIMORE - 37.70

ATLANTA - 34.90

VENEZUELA - 31.61

ST. LOUIS - 31.40

Take a look: http://www.house.gov/apps/list/speech/ia05_king/sp_20060503_stats.html

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It is very dangerous for U S armed forces
by WOODS-HICK / June 4, 2006 12:50 AM PDT

how many killed in those other places? how many in iraq using 100,00 model?

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Ridiculous comparison
by duckman / June 4, 2006 1:08 AM PDT

How many terrorists are in those other battle zones?

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That's precisely the point, DM, and not absurad at all!
by Dave Konkel [Moderator] / June 4, 2006 6:27 AM PDT
In reply to: Ridiculous comparison

There weren't any terrosits in Iraq in 2002. The other key comparison is what those same casualty values were for Iraq in 2002 -- and the answer is, extremely low. Effective police states are geneally among the safest places in terms of freedom from random violence (unless one is resisting the police, of course!)

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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There weren't any terrorists in Iraq in 2002?
by Evie / June 4, 2006 6:29 AM PDT

Yeah right.

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The ones that volunteer to fight...
by C1ay / June 4, 2006 1:12 AM PDT

for liberty and justice for all. You seem to miss what the U.S. Armed Forces stand for....

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and don't forget the american way
by WOODS-HICK / June 4, 2006 1:26 AM PDT

I watched superman as a child also. I did not write the report, it was just dumb to compare iraq with any us cities or other places. I don't plan on going to baghdad for mardi gras. btw nobody answered my question. more btw I served 1966-1972.

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W-H,
by marinetbryant / June 4, 2006 1:29 AM PDT

Would you feel comfortable elaborating on your service? Just nosey, not looking for ammo. I was a Marine, 0311(rifleman) in 'Nam, 68-69.

Tom

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tom i was a grunt
by Mark5019 / June 4, 2006 1:31 AM PDT
In reply to: W-H,

68-70 nam who knows we might have met:)

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I never left the states
by WOODS-HICK / June 4, 2006 1:50 AM PDT
In reply to: W-H,

sgt, illang 217th geeia sq., outside wire and antenna installation and maintenance, attached to 126th arw based in chicago in those years (honorable discharge). the 'regulars' back then did not respect the guard. many thought it was the back door to avoid nam. that is why I do not respect our cic service. times have changed, guard and reserves are not just 'weekend warriors' anymore.

the iowa rep steve king (r) never served. he was born in 1949..hmmmm. he is another chicken hawk with a rosy brush. he authored that speech.

let's see the service of all who post to this discussion

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From the past...
by C1ay / June 4, 2006 2:00 AM PDT
let's see the service of all who post to this discussion
Many posted theirs here....
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thanks I knew they were out there
by WOODS-HICK / June 4, 2006 2:10 AM PDT
In reply to: From the past...

I was not a member back then. that is bookmarked now.

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at least our cic
by Mark5019 / June 4, 2006 2:09 AM PDT

served.

some would be presidents inflicted self inflicted wounds.

and when the media demanded his records he released same, not like a certain senator whose records are still being forged i mean looked over

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he was still a back door man
by WOODS-HICK / June 4, 2006 2:19 AM PDT
In reply to: at least our cic

he avoided nam, just like quayle, just like clinton, just like rep king and so on the list would be as long as the stlanta phone book.

kerry, gore actually went to nam. they didn't have to. so if you would want to follow cic into battle go ahead, I might follow a different kerry, a hegel, cleland, mc cain, dole etc.

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Not exactly....
by EdH / June 4, 2006 2:31 AM PDT

Clinton avoided any military service at all, afvter promising to do some. Bush served AND volunteered for Nam.

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(NT) (NT) clinton was to busy serviceing interns
by Mark5019 / June 4, 2006 2:43 AM PDT
In reply to: Not exactly....
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if you do not comprehend what I wrote
by WOODS-HICK / June 4, 2006 3:51 AM PDT
In reply to: Not exactly....

read it again. I included clinton in the list. I would like to see the PROOF that gwb volunterred for nam. I see another question you avoided: did you serve? I didn't see your name on the list provided in clay's reply.

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I comprehended EXACYTLY what you wrote...
by EdH / June 4, 2006 4:10 AM PDT

it was bogus. You said Bush avoided Nam, just like quayle, just like clinton But that's not true. UNLIKE ClINTON he didn't lie to avoid Nam and he DID volunteer for Nam; it's well documented. I didn't make it up and have posted exhaustively on it in the past as have others.

I don't see where you ask if I served, but I did not. I make no secret of the fact and have posted in detail why and when I didn't, if it matters (which it does not). I did NOT avoid the question. Please show me where you asked it; I missed it.

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maybe you don't read everything
by WOODS-HICK / June 4, 2006 4:21 AM PDT
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its been proven here
by Mark5019 / June 4, 2006 4:27 AM PDT

and on the web
he vounteered.
and kerry self inflicted his wounds to get out of nam.
and i served and was in nam 2 full tours not 4 months like ban aid kerry did.

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Nope, didn't read it...
by EdH / June 4, 2006 4:28 AM PDT

"When you assume...."

Easy enough for YOU to look up Bush volunteering for Nam. Do a forum search. Rob tried to pull the same crap, claiming Bush and Cheney pulled strings to get out of serving, etc. as you not too long ago. I'm sure you can find it.

Wish you guys would find a different tune to hum. This one has only one note.

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its on the web search for it
by Mark5019 / June 4, 2006 4:25 AM PDT

and as you never served out of the states wheres your knowledgr based on heresay?

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Kerry the man who ran
by Mark5019 / June 4, 2006 2:42 AM PDT

and fake injuries to leave Nam
great man.
not my idea of a leader.
cowards like him don't belong in power

and kerry said all soldiers in nam commited atrocities

so you would like him, allso went over to the n viets

him and jane
good man yup just what we need is a ******* like kerry

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I meant KERREY
by WOODS-HICK / June 4, 2006 3:58 AM PDT
In reply to: Kerry the man who ran

you know the one with the medal of honor. there is a term for those who become enraptured with their captors. 'stockholm syndrome'. why everybody has fallen in love with this cic is an example. use your imagination. so who would you follow into battle.

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not kerry who ran
by Mark5019 / June 4, 2006 4:34 AM PDT
In reply to: I meant KERREY
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I will try this again
by WOODS-HICK / June 4, 2006 4:55 AM PDT
In reply to: not kerry who ran

bob KERREY, senator from nebraska, medal of honor winner.

I said gwb avoided or did not go to nam. edh said he volunteered, I have proved gwb did not go to nam. it is up to edh to prove his allegation, not me. if he volunteered prove me wrong. I never mentioned cheney. but you can add him to the list of those who did not go to nam or serve in the armed services.

I have never claimed any heroics, my replies regarding my service are honest. I also KNOW that you could not walk into a guard recruiting center in 1966 and be taken immediately. try to remember what the 'regular' services called the guard in the late 60's. the main discipline for not fulfilling your duty: notice sent to your draft board making you eligible for the draft. I was not overseas but I know what happened in the guard. I was there.

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when were talking kerry service
by Mark5019 / June 4, 2006 5:08 AM PDT
In reply to: I will try this again

were talking the presidential wanna be
and i supplied links that showed gwb volunteeered for nam

and times have changed i served with week end warriors and some new which end the round came out of.

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It's not up to me to prove anything at all...
by EdH / June 4, 2006 5:12 AM PDT
In reply to: I will try this again

you want to know, you look it up. IF you really want to know.

I already know, thus I don't need to look it up. Been down this road more than once already. What you believe is unimportant to me.

BTW you didn't "prove" gwb didn't go to Nam. No one claimed he did; it's common knowledge that he didn't. Jeez!

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US Army, '54 to'57...
by Jack Ammann / June 4, 2006 5:18 AM PDT

...RA18461571...DD214 in the name of Jack J Ammann Jr ...Honorable Discharge...MOS 812...Attached to USAEUR...After Basic at Ft Bliss, spent 1st year at Ft Belvoir, VA...2nd year at Ft Winfield Scott, 6th Army Hq, Presidio San Francisco, CA...3rd year at Heidelberg, Germany, Hq USAEUR.

Motto: If you can't hunt with the big dogs, just stay on the porch.

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I answered it, below...
by EdH / June 4, 2006 1:32 AM PDT

though you probably didn't like the answer.

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Using the 100,00 method...
by EdH / June 4, 2006 1:21 AM PDT

wou;ld be very misleading. It would be like using the 100,000 gang members or crack dealers (or rappers) in LA or Detroit.

It's a given that a war zone is dangerous for soldiers. But the point is that the media portrays Iraq as a severely dangerous place for the population when it's no more dangerous, less so in fact, than many other places that are presumed to be "safe".

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