From the outset it shares at least one problem with the Bush plan, both call for more troops without telling us where they're going to come from...
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John Kerry on Iraq -- and no, it's not 'cut and run.'
Meanwhile, during last night's Q&A our Preisdent was unable to recall a single mistake he's made while in office. It must be nice to be perfect!
-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!
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Hi, Clay.
Kerry has said elswhere that accommodations to the international community that Bush is unwilling to make should bring more commitments of foreign troops. I'm frankly not sure he's right, but it's worth a try. You'll note that the much ballyhooed Spanish pullout statement had a caveat about true internationalization of the Iraq effort. Our real problem is that true democracy in Iraq would probaby bring a government much like Iran's.
-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!
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They've only got 8000-9000 troops in Iraq from numbers that have been bandied about recently.
Dan
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Some of our "coalition partners" have like 3 or 4 guys over there, just so Bush can tout the "international cooperation" going on.
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... their troop deployment in relation to military size is rather significant. We made up the lion's share of troops in Gulf War I too, and as you recall that was a "real" coalition because it included the French. So it would only be a real coalition now if the French had sent a few hundred and a Mirage jet huh?
Evie 
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Hi, Evie.
The world was truly united behind the Gulf War coalition, including the UN and several Arab states. Not the case with this fiasco. As for the French, Russians, and Germans, they have the largest armies in Europe, so their participation would indeed have been meaningful, and their absences is indeed keenly felt, as much as y'all try to whistle past the graveyard.
-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!
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Hi Dave,
That "truly united" coalition had strings. Strings that thwarted us from finishing the job at the time, and pretty much hanging us with enforcing the no-fly zones whilst the erstwhile UN, France, and others skimmed inconceivable $$ from the corrupt Oil for Food scam.
When Chirac promised Powell cooperation in Iraq, the promised contingent was a smattering of troops and one (or maybe a couple) Mirage jet. Their participation would have been no more and actually less symbolic than that of the Japanese, Polish and Ukrainians to name a few.
Evie
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While more agreement by all would have been nice, not necessarily just strictly our plan, they had no compelling reason to do so.
Some of the Arab states were flat out afraid of what Saddam would do to their economy with control of Iraq and Kuwait oil supplies. And even that eventually he's invade again. Even though larger in physical size and wealthy rulers, Saudi Arabia seemed rather intimidated by Saddam. And if they were, just imagine the United Arab Emirates felt.
As long as we did the treaty enforcement of the no fly zones and let Europe trade with Iraq, they had no pressing reasons, economically or regarding region stability to take further action.
As for the French, Russians, and Germans, they have the largest armies in Europe, so their participation would indeed have been meaningful, ...
So maybe they don't no longer need our troops in France and Germany, and the rest of Europe, Russia is their buddy now, right? Granted we probably need the bases more than they need military help from us. But I'd bet on them howling if we pulled out. All that lost US$ for one thing.
RogerNC
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
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IMO it's their country, let them choose whatever government they want.
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Hi, Clay.
>>IMO it's their country, let them choose whatever government they want.<<
But if you listen carefully to Bush, he really wants one that pretty much mirrors or Bill of Rights -- and there isn't any such in the Arab World today.
-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!
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... Like foregoing an independent investigation into just who benefitted from the Oil for Food scam? How about our "allies" take care of their own back yard in Bosnia/Kosovo so we can relocate those troops where they are needed to protect US national interests as they are supposed to be.
Evie
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....of why he and Cheney were insisting on appearing before the 9/11 commission together despite the fact that the commission had asked to see them separately? The question was repeated when he dodged it the first time, and he dodged it again. Kinda made me wish for a repeat of that moment during one of the Quayle/Bentsen debates when Tom Brokaw told Quayle "I'm going to keep asking this question until you answer it."
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They just told him that **** would be with him and he gave it no more thought. Not that the total amount of thought he'd given it till then amounted to a great deal. If they told him the truth he might blurt out the truth at an inconvenient time. It wouldn't play well to have video of the president yelling 'Because I'm an idiot'.
Dan
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It should be interesting though. I wonder if Bush will be able to talk while Cheney drinks a glass of water. I love that trick.
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It must be a gift.
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If bush ever works up the nerve to debate Kerry, will **** be there, too? Maybe they could hide him under the podium or something.
Dan
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Do you watch "24?" If not, there was a Presidential debate in the first two episodes. President Palmer was wearing a small earpiece so he could get urgent news (which of course happened). I could just picture Bush watching that and trying to get one of those so someone could feed him the answers.
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... how Bush cleaned Gore's clock in the debates of 2000. Kerry is not the tested/seasoned candidate that Gore was (however stiff, Gore was far more campaign savvy). Kerry has only faced one close election, against Weld. I look forward to the debates. I'll know he won when the two of you start snickering about his intelligence. It's a dead give away that he has just come off a good speech/performance.
Evie
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We were snickering about his lack of intelligence yesterday, too. He hadn't come off any performance at all. The day before that, too.
Dan
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Actually Gore cleaned his own clock by not laying back a little. He came off as arrogant rather than knowledgeable. He sure wasn't getting his clock cleaned when he had to inform Bush that Social Security is, in fact, a government program.
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I watched much of the first season of '24'. I stopped when people started acting like such idiots that I spent too much time yelling at the TV. "Don't go in there!" "What the hell are you going home for? They'll be waiting for you!" Grrrrr! ! ! ! I started wishing they'd all get blown up.
Did you see 'The Emperor's Club'? Kevin Klein. Good movie. It had a similar scene in it.
Dan
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Have made many, it would be hard to determine which
was the worst, but Iraq, Afghanistan, and the Patriot
Act are not among them.
You would be writing an entire page on that.
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Hi, Del.
The American public is now strarting to recognize that Iraq was a HUGE mistake, just as the rest of the world has said all along. Saying you can't remember a mistake in three years comes across as the height of arrogance to all but the true believers.
-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com
The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!
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...attempting to speak for THE AMERICAN PUBLIC.
Be advised, you are not speaking for THE public,
possibly a small minority, at best.
Without a doubt, the height of arrogance is easily recognized by yourself.
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.is the misuse/misspelling of a word, and for
this I apologize.
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I think you were trying to say that Dave's behavior is the height of arrogance. What you did say was that Dave could easily recognize the height of arrogance. Change the 'by' to 'as' and you'll have the idea you want.
But who's counting?
Dan
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