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General discussion

isn't this like putting Capone in charge of the FBI?

Mar 7, 2004 8:25PM PST

Discussion is locked

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And the truth shall make you free.
Mar 7, 2004 10:18PM PST

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"Let's be clear," Robinson told parishioners in Manchester in October. "We've always had gay bishops. All I'm doing is being honest about it."

Would the conservative minority that continues to oppose his consecration be of a different mind if Bishop Robinson had not admitted to being gay? I fail to see the difference.

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Re:And the truth shall make you free....izzat so?
Mar 7, 2004 11:28PM PST

then imagine getting this in your mail box...

"dear rosalie,
i have checked your complaints of Father Whatsisname fondling your 10 year old grandson, and he has assured me that he really loves the boy and would do nothing to hurt him..."

Signed
Bishop Whoever is in power at the time of writing...

pleeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzeeeeee gimme a break!

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That's appalling I admit. However, I still fail to see why he would be ...
Mar 7, 2004 11:44PM PST

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an acceptable bishop if he were in the closet instead of out in the open. Isn't that hypocrisy at it's worst?

BTW, you're assuming I'm backing this bishop. What makes you assume that? Just curious.

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No, it's not worse.
Mar 8, 2004 12:00AM PST

The person in the closet is not telling his parishioners and the world that the practice of homosexuality is OK. In that respect the person is not giving others a reason to sin. Also, the person in the class may still see this behaviour as sin, and may still be working it through via repentance. In that case, they're not much different than any other sinner in the church. We all struggle with our sin. Finally, the person in the closet may not be practicing homosexuality. In that case, he or she is not guilty and may properly condemn the practice.

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Hiding the head in the sand. I have news for you, people don't need...
Mar 8, 2004 12:10AM PST

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a reason to sin. It seems to come naturally.

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and your point is...
Mar 8, 2004 12:21AM PST

Their pastor should show them how it's done? I don't think so! The pastor is supposed to teach them, with both words and action, to avoid sin!

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No, my point is that the conservative minority are willing to accept a bishop ...
Mar 8, 2004 1:19AM PST

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that lies about his homosexuality but not one that tells the truth. Makes me wonder what kind of spiritually they practice. If no one knows than it's not a sin?

"The pastor is supposed to teach them, with both words and action, to avoid sin!"

I couldn't agree more.

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Ummmmm, do you mean the conservatives 'wink' at homosexual behaviour if it's hidden?
Mar 8, 2004 1:49AM PST

I don't think so! If they become aware of such behaviour, then it's no longer hidden is it? It will be disciplined. If it's really hidden, then they don't know and cannot act.

BTW, no Christian church I know of condemns a homosexual. What is condemned is the practice of homosexuality. If it is not practiced, there is no problem.

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Re: Ummmmm, do you mean the conservatives 'wink' at homosexual behaviour if it's hidden?
Mar 9, 2004 1:12AM PST

Hi, KP.

The Catholic hierarchy, especially that in Rome, has seemed much more concerned about not punishing pedophile priests too harshly (or in many cases, at all) than it has about the priests' victims Sad Frankly, much that the hierarchy has done under this Pope seems more about maintaining hierarchical power, with ministry to the faithful running a distant second (if that -- stifling religious liberalism is probably second, with ministry third at best!)

-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Re: Ummmmm, do you mean the conservatives 'wink' at homosexual behaviour if it's hidden?
Mar 9, 2004 1:23AM PST

Dave,

I think it's easy to come down on the current power structure in the church, but this has been a problem for generations with pretty much the same response. It is very unusual for any church to recognize it's own wrongdoing. The RC church make the best target because it's older and more monolithic than most.

Dan

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I can only speak for the kind of churches I've been in which are
Mar 9, 2004 9:09AM PST

evangelical, protestant churches. I would hope that most churches respond this way, but obviously I don't know, and cannot speak, for other traditions.

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It's not that it doesn't happen in other denominations
Mar 10, 2004 12:05AM PST

it's what the church does about it that counts.

Most churchs will either throw the bum out or ask him to resign when it happens. The Catholic church simply hid them.

A Baptist preacher, here in town, was accused of fondling a couple of eight-year-old girls. His wife turned him in. He's no longer a preacher.

Most parents don't call the Bishop, they call the cops. I don't understand Catholics that just let it go. I don't care if the guy is the Pope himself, I'd want him in jail.

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I wish that were the case.
Mar 10, 2004 12:15AM PST

There are many, many instances where clergy are removed and not prosecuted. Notification of civil authorities in such cases has not been common until recently.

Dan

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A church doesn't charge someone with a crime.
Mar 10, 2004 6:10AM PST

All a church can do, is the same as a business, and that is to discharge them from employment or membership. The parents need to get their local law enforcement to press charges.

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Amen sister! (NT)
Mar 10, 2004 1:11AM PST

.

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Re:It's not that it doesn't happen in other denominations
Mar 10, 2004 1:35AM PST

Hi, Diana.

Until fairly recently, most Catholic countries in Europe had special Church courts for priests accused of wrong-doing; the punishments were often mere wrist-slaps. Unfortunately, many of the European hierarchy still feel that priests are 'special" and shouldn't be subject to civil justice -- the Pope has in fact criticized the bishops in some dioceses that DID cooperate with civil authorities to punish pedophile priests! The American Bishops' plan that was widely critcized by the American public and victims' groups as being "too little too late" was criticized by Rome (who refused to approve it) for not paying enough deference to the accused priests Sad

-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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Re:Re:It's not that it doesn't happen in other denominations
Mar 10, 2004 6:22AM PST

While personally I feel they should have been prosecuted there is another aspect that always puzzled me.

I'm not Catholic, so there is a lot that I only 'know' by hearsay. But I never understood if they weren't going to dismiss the priest guilty of such violations why they didn't insist they join one of the monastic organizations and never be around kids again? seems like a good coverup too, they'd never endanger the church reputation again too.

I've read the claims that the church was depending on psych evaluations that such had been treated and cured, but seems a huge chance to take.

RogerNC

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

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Like similar organizations
Mar 10, 2004 10:30PM PST

that are self regulated for the most part, congress, lawyers, police, etc., they tend to prefer obfuscation to reform.

Dan

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If I recall ...
Mar 9, 2004 10:39AM PST

... the circumstances of his "coming out" involved abandoning his wife and children to go shack up with his lover. Hardly a role model Sad

Evie Happy

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and hardly someone to be a pastor let alone a bishop
Mar 9, 2004 11:18PM PST

Jesus would allow his wife to divorce and remarry on the grounds of unfaithfulness, but the bishop would not be allowed to remarry. He's the guilty party.

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Re:i think one of us needs to check his/her definition of ''closet *****''
Mar 8, 2004 12:26AM PST

closet *****=***** out of sight, nobody knows, it's hidden, a secret...

that means (by my definition) that if he was a closet *****, then nobody would know? therefore he gets the job on merit, i.e. judge the man not his actions....

and BTW, you assuming that i'm assuming is a no-no...

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".... it's hidden, a secret..." This reminds me of ...
Mar 8, 2004 1:09AM PST

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the joke about the Baptist not knowing each other when they meet in a liquor store. If you ignore it, it's not true. Hypocrisy.

I based my assumption on your response to me.

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That's not the same thing.
Mar 8, 2004 2:55PM PST

Ignoring something is not the same as having no knowledge of it.

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Are you accusing the new bishop of sexual assault? -nt
Mar 7, 2004 11:55PM PST

.

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He is a false teacher.
Mar 8, 2004 12:03AM PST

I can't say what Jonah is doing, but there is no evidence of assault.

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Re:if you want to read between the lines, that's your problem
Mar 8, 2004 12:30AM PST

but i suggest you try sticking to what i say, not what you THINK i meant...

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If you'd answer the question we'd know what you think. -nt
Mar 8, 2004 2:03AM PST

.

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Re:did i get this right?
Mar 8, 2004 3:29AM PST

i posted, you read between the lines, asked a question based on absolutely nothing i said, and now you ask me "what do i think?"

you have just proved that you don't read the posts all the way through....

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Or don't answer. Either way. -nt
Mar 8, 2004 3:41AM PST

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