Pat Condell in the UK.
This has already about half a million viewings. Even though I disagree with his atheistic stance, I can't help but agree with his take on Islam and how our Western culture is (isn't!) dealing properly with it.
It's come to America, the "honor" killings. The message is don't speak to our females or we will kill them if we can't kill you. Witness the family love of Islam.
There's a film called FITNA there worth seeing, done by a Dutch person who is now targeted like Rushdie by the Islamist.
1/16/2008 - 911 audio released: This makes you sick, the audio shows that Sarah suffered until she slowly died, with her sister most likely already dead in the cab with her. This is the result of Islam, this is what an honor killing sounds like. Click here to listen to the disturbing audio.
1/5/2008 - We were outraged this morning, along with many other Americans after hearing about the honor killings of two young girls which occurred in Texas this past week. Outrage does not begin to describe the emotions felt....(more at link)
many immigrants bring their 'old ways' with them. I am not condoning but I believe this is an isolated incident that has an inflammatory element. the offenders should be punished to full extent. in texas that will be very harsh and swift. I do not believe this will be accepted by future generations of muslims living in the USA.
in every 'melting-pot' there are poisonous ingredients that are purged by refining the recipe.
there was a time that many ethnic and religious differences were seen as obstacles to young couples.
italians married italians, greeks married greeks, etc.
catholic and protestant intermarriages
jewish and christian intermarriages
interracial marriage was against the law in 16 states until 1967
Anti-miscegenation laws overturned on 12 June 1967 by Loving v. Virginia
State First law passed "Races" banned from marrying whites Note
Alabama 1822 Blacks Repealed during Reconstruction, law later reinstated
Arkansas 1838 Blacks Repealed during Reconstruction, law later reinstated
Delaware 1721 Blacks
Florida 1832 Blacks Repealed during Reconstruction, law later reinstated
Georgia 1750 All non-whites
Kentucky 1792 Blacks
Louisiana 1724 Blacks Repealed during Reconstruction, law later reinstated
Mississippi 1822 Blacks, Asians Repealed during Reconstruction, law later reinstated
Missouri 1835 Blacks, Asians
North Carolina 1715 Blacks, Native Americans
Oklahoma 1897 Blacks
South Carolina 1717 All non-whites Repealed during Reconstruction, law later reinstated
Tennessee 1741 Blacks, Native Americans
Texas 1837 Blacks
Virginia 1691 All non-whites Previous anti-miscegenation law made more severe by Racial Integrity Act of 1924
West Virginia 1863
As best I can tell from my reading, most orthodox Muslims (radicals or otherwise) do not think about the categories we label as 'secular', 'religious', 'cultural' and so forth in the same way that those of us from more-or-less secular Western societies do.
My impression is that, although the various notions about sharia are different in different Islamic sects and different Islamic cultures, the supporters in each case regard their version of sharia as being determined by Islamic teaching.
Speaking as a Westerner in a secular society, my guess is that the 'honor killings' and such are driven more by culture than by Islam, but I do not believe that the participants in the acts would agree with the distinction. Their goal is to create a culture in which 'cultural practices' are inextricably linked to Islam and I believe that they would argue that the 'honor killings' are a result of their commitment to Islamic values.
All of which raises a question: If the participants do not draw the distinction between religious practice and cultural practice, why should we? I recognize that there are people who describe themselves as Muslim and who disagree with the notion of 'honor killings' and such, but the participants in these affairs do not necessarily regard such people as being faithful Muslims. As a non-Muslim I won't pretend that I understand the faith well enough to be entirely sure which group comes closer to being faithful followers of Mohammed's teachings.
this has its roots culturally but Islam has been interpreted by prominent imams as supporting it.
Here's another recent story of the current Islamic culture's "tolerance"
and a very telling interview of a senior imam in Britain (this is actually a year or so old, but has been circulating recently)
In the end it matters not whether the violence is due to culture or religion for the two usually intertwine and influence each other. The Muslim religion has been corrupted by certain parts of Arabian culture, and most Muslims that profess peace seem to be doing little about their brothers.
at the wars going on between 'brother' Arabs due only to clan or tribe differences. One of his early tenets (from whatever source) was the brotherhood of all. I was in a neutral Muslim country in the Middle East at the end of the Iran-Iraq war, and noticed that the commentators tiptoed discreetly around this issue. (Muslims in English-language papers.) I learned all this BTW by reading some of their literature in that country. Side note: Malcolm X began to have his eyes opened about the US Nation of Islam when he saw how he was treated on his Hajj. Better than in US white society (of course), and better than Elijah Muhammad's racism. And recall Benazir Bhutto- a woman, a mother, and a Muslim, killed by Muslims commanded to do 'none of the above'.
What?! Christians killing Christians?! Not possible! Many commands to the contrary in their book, as well.
Not to place any less significance on the distasteful practice of "honor killings" (and the faulty rationalized reasons for the practice)... but I want to point out that family members kill other family members all over the world for a variety of reasons.
Some Islamic cultures and some Islamic families kill their children when they think that child has disgraced their family honor.
Guess what? This happens in other cultures and other religions too. Often times it happens without any cultural or religious reasoning behind it.
Some people are ignorant and place more importance on their imagined honor than the value of their families' lives. I can pick an example of this type of behavior occurring in the US at least once a week that had nothing to do with Islam. In fact, honor killings have nothing to do with Islam. It is a cultural practice, not a religious practice. The conclusion to be made is that people don't need a reason to kill their own family members. They do it because they are selfish and more concerned about their own interests than anyone else's.
Nominal Christians in the Balkans used the Muslim attitude toward family honor- especially in sexual matters- to make mass rape of Muslim women a weapon of war. Virtually all of the mass graves contained men killed trying to defend their sisters and mothers, who would be left alive as often as not to spread their "shame".
I don't subscribe to any philosophy that can be reduced to a bumper sticker, but I do remember one from the Vietnam War days: War is harmful to children and other living things.
I may have mentioned before that I was listening to a radio report on the Balkans back then, and the announcer said, 'You may not want to listen to this next dispatch, because it involves [Christians'] violence and children.' I'm a tough guy, so I listened.
I wish I hadn't.
yet the human suffering goes on.
More? In Viet Nam, leftover ordnance explodes every day as farmers farm and children play.
More? In France and Belgium, the same happens- with ordnance from two wars.
More? Modern medicine often saves the lives of children, as in Africa and Arabia, who lose limbs to mines especially designed to maim, not kill. Their 'wartime experience' will last the rest of their lives.
In just a few sentences I covered areas where each major religion dominates. (Remember that religious violence was the original proposition in the thread.) Though some have trouble assigning some violence to the religious area, I know of at least one person who wouldn't: "By their fruits you will know them."
Link: "'Front page' on the BBC World-Americas." That's at bbc.co.uk, to start. It may have been replaced by bigger news from Hollywood, so try their search, for "argentina" or "dirty war".
you posted something about a legal case over an adoption of a war baby, NOT something having to do with the results or failures to clean up battlefield areas properly, that's why it's a "non sequitur", because it doesn't logically follow the main subject you introduced and has little bearing on on it other than both involved some connection to war.
What i'm about to say will be very offensive. I can't sugar code this. There is only one way to say what I'm about to say.
Yeah, Islam is a messed up religion. I'm sorry if I offended anyone: but, look at how they treat women. i mean, they are so crazy that they took two mentally challenged women, who suffered from Downs, and planted bombs on them. they sent them to the market place to shop, and the bombs blew and they died killing many others along with them. Perhaps, some of you remember this.
Women are treated like sex objects. I can cite many, many articles, websites, and written works that will go into explicit detail about how women suffered, and even died, because of such treatment. Women are human also: but, these idiots fail to realize this. To them, women are disposable, as they only have two purposes--sex toys and baby makers. Oh, i forgot to mention a third--they are house slaves. While i do live by the old gender roles--men and women having their place--I do not, in any way shape or form condone treating another human being like this.
If these crazies want to hunt me for saying all of this and speaking against their crazy messed up religion, fine! Bring it on. I'm all for dying for exposing idiots like these. I've not been one for liking to keep wrongdoing secret. I'll educate everyone I can so they can seek justice and not get tied up in such stuff. And, i'll be darned if i waste a good towel to wear on my face to cover my features just because I'm a woman. And, horay, to the Dutchman who is making these videos. Maybe, I'll folow suit. They'll have thee reasons for killing me. i'm half Dutch. They hate the Dutch as it is, as people of the Netherlands except everyone the same--men, women, and gays. There is no separation. Everyone has the same rights. I'm a woman. And, I speak against their stupidity.
Any religion that condones this type of behavior, in my opinion, is no religion at all. I've seen in the Koran somewhere that all who are not Muslim will die and the killers are to be rewarded immensely. I don't remember where it said it: but, I do have a copy of the Koran. I'll look through it and come back to this later.
I have many religious works, as I studied many religions on a quest to find God.
but, i will say that I will help anyone come to God. anyone. However, i am, again, against how this religion tells people to treat others who are not their followers or people who are inocent.
And, to be honest with you, if people really followed the Bible, they'd not kill in the name of God or go to war against others that are not of their persuasion just to convert them. I do not condone that at all either, as that is not how Jesus did things. Matthew 26:52 says that anyone who takes the sword dies by the sword. Yes, I know that Christians did some horrible things: however, nothing matches Islam, and I mean NOTHING!
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