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General discussion

Is Windows 8 Today's Version Of "Microsoft Bob"?

Sep 15, 2014 7:19AM PDT
http://betanews.com/2012/08/31/windows-8-suffers-from-the-microsoft-bob-effect/

older article, but so prescient in it's prophetic observation.

"Windows 8 is just over a month from hitting the market and my sense is that this initial release, at least, will be at best controversial and at worst a failure. Microsoft is simply trying to change too many things at once.

What we have here is the Microsoft Bob effect, where change runs amuck simply because it can, compounded in this case by a sense of panic in Redmond, Wash. Microsoft so desperately needs Windows 8 to be a huge success that they've fiddled it into a likely failure."


There was no "Classic Shell" or anything similar however to allow "Microsoft Bob" to hang on, although "Bob" may end up having lived longer than W8 will.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Bob

A look back in time to Microsoft Bob.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edlE4Yvv5-s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5teG6ou8mWU

Discussion is locked

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It's simple: No
Sep 15, 2014 11:04AM PDT

It's simple: No. Before I begin, I have to again point out the absolute reek of insecurity coming off of this post. You're always going on about how much you like Linux, yet you never miss an opportunity to take a cheap shot at Windows. You like Linux, it works for you, so why can't that be enough? Why can't you simply be content that you've found something that works for you and accept that other people have different preferences? The constant need to run down the primary competition, Microsoft and/or Windows, just makes you look like a sad pathetic little man. Your actions are screaming the complete opposite of what you're saying with words. I'm sure you'll take that as me casting some kind of aspersions, but really I'm trying to help. Watching you is like watching an addict spiral out of control on their way to rock bottom. It's not the sort of thing a non-sadist or sociopath (in the clinical sense, meaning a complete lack of empathy) would take pleasure in. I'm sure you'll just break this olive branch over your knee like all the rest, but in all honestly, take some time for a little introspection. Ask yourself why it should matter what anyone else does; you claim to get a great deal of utility from Linux, so why is that not enough? How does my using Windows rob you of any of the utility you claim to get from using Linux? If the answer is none, why then do you insist on running down a product you don't even use? You're not fooling anyone, save maybe yourself, with the constant bluster.

Anyway...

BOB was designed to be an interface replacement over Windows 3.1 and had some good ideas, it just overreached for what computers of the day were capable of.

Windows 8, when you get beyond the Sycophant's Talking Points, or have any sense of software development and/or marketing (quick tip: marketing is not just advertising), is the second phase of the convergence idea that I believe was started under Bill Gates and continued under Ballmer who passed it on to the new guy who's last name I can't spell off the top of my head.

Phase 1 was getting all of the under the hood things lined up and working together. So you had the complete reworking of what was once Windows CE then Windows Mobile into Windows Phone, which uses more or less the same kernel as the Windows on your desktop. You also see the Xbox platform doing the same thing and the introduction of an interface very similar to Windows Phone with the introduction of the New Product Experience release of the Xbox 360 firmware. I don't think the Xbox 360 uses the same Windows kernel, but it's being phased out in favor of the Xbox One which does. So you have the three major platforms all working off what is essentially the same Windows code base. This has knock-on effects up and down the company which should be pretty self-evident to anyone with any kind of business sense if they stop and think about it for 10 seconds or less. Even if you know nothing about programming or software engineering, you should be able to appreciate the idea of having a common base for product development.

All of this is a truly monumental undertaking given that each product has different release schedules, market goals, etc. It's also a big help to developers, but it only solves part of the problem.

Phase 2 then involves making the UI changes. The name of the game in UI design is consistency. Think about it from the standpoint of Joe Average Software Developer. A few years ago if they wanted to write a program for Windows CE/Mobile and Windows PC, you essentially had to write the program twice, from scratch each time. Things like DirectX have solved part of the problem, making it relatively easy to port games between the Xbox and PC and even helped straddle the real-mode (DOS to Windows Me) to protected-mode (Windows XP onwards) switch for games. It's a start, but from Joe Average Software Developer's POV, the kind of holy grail is what Java promised and then failed miserably to deliver on: write once, run anywhere. If Joe Average can write a program that can then be utilized on the PC, Xbox and Phone/Phablet/Tablet platforms with little to no modifications, just stop and consider the potential ramifications of that for a moment. It's not quite "run anywhere" but it's still quite a bit closer than Java ever managed to deliver on. It frees up a lot of time for the developer that was previously spent on dealing with the slightly different dialects of different Windows platforms to spend on new features. Not to mention there will likely be fewer bugs because the behavior is much more consistent across platforms and you don't necessarily need to have a Windows Phone phone/tablet or an Xbox console to test your software. You can reasonably assume that if it works as expected on the PC it will work the same on the other platform targets because all the necessary changes are handled on the back end by Microsoft's developers. So now you don't have to buy a $500 console or an off-contract phone for roughly the same amount meaning a much shorter road to profitability as a small-time software developer.

You can also stop and consider some of the other implications this presents. Imagine a hotel, for example, where instead of expensive desktop PCs they might buy cheaper Xbox One consoles with the necessary software side-loaded. They could have a bank of consoles in a server room somewhere and allow guests to play games that are streamed up to the TV in the room with a controller that is in every room or could be rented as a premium service. Great little additional money maker for the hotel when you have a family with kids who are being a bit annoying, not to mention if one of the units at the reception desk goes down, they've got this ready supply of replacements. You could even put one standard in every room and get rid of expensive proprietary systems hotels use now to rent videos on demand or check out from your room. You could use the Kinect system's voice recognition to help control things in the room like turn the AC up/down, change the channel on the TV, turn on/off the lights. You could even use the Kinect system to do things like turn the TV and lights off and reset the temp in the room when the Kinect sensor doesn't detect any movement for a certain period of time. Maybe instead of lights forever being on in hallways, have the lights turn on/off in response to a person's movements in said hallways, which would probably make the whole project pay for itself within a year or two on utility bills. That's just a couple of a near infinite number of possibilities anyone with vision enough to look past the surface could exploit. Just because the Xbox is marketed primarily as a game console doesn't mean it can't be repurposed for other tasks. You just need a little vision to see what could be, like the engineer who mentally takes apart any mechanical device they may come across, not merely what is directly in front of you, such as a child who refuses to eat some bit of food because of the outward appearance.

Microsoft is in the middle of Phase 2, but whether or not the full potential will ever be realized is uncertain at this point. Part of the blame has to rest with Microsoft for failing to properly market Windows 8 before it launched. Developers and people who are interested in the technical side of things were suitably excited for the release, but Microsoft did a very poor job of communicating this to the general public. It's been a failing of Microsoft's since the Windows 95 launch. However, there are also quite a few people who haven't even used Windows 8 but talk about how bad it is like they're some kind of expert. If Microsoft had done a better job of communicating that Windows 8 is the first visible step in a process to the magical land of convergence, or even some of the rather significant technical improvements, it probably would have mollified a lot of people.

It's always amazing how quickly the "Windows 8 sucks" types shut up when you start pointing out some of the improvements in Windows 8 that are addressing PRECISELY the areas people have been complaining about for years. They say Windows is bloated, well Windows 8 not only uses less memory compared to Windows 7, it uses memory significantly more efficiently and also is something like 1GB smaller in overall disk footprint compared to Windows 7 -- I may be off on the exact figure, but it is smaller. They say Windows is slow, well Windows 8 boots significantly faster than Windows 7, has a number of tweaks that makes more efficient use of every clock cycle of a CPU and makes heavier use of the GPU improving both system performance and battery life. They say Windows is insecure, well Windows 8 adds some significant security features like an improved DEP and the introduction of ASLR not to mention some further hardening of the driver model that started in Vista and a lot of more generalized improvements. I think if Microsoft had done a better job of communicating this, not to mention where they're trying to take the Windows platform, people would have seen Windows 8 as the transitional release that it is.

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Wow, what a useless rant
Sep 15, 2014 3:17PM PDT
"It's simple: No. Before I begin, I have to again point out the absolute reek of insecurity coming off of this post. You're always going on about how much you like Linux, yet you never miss an opportunity to take a cheap shot at Windows. You like Linux, it works for you, so why can't that be enough? Why can't you simply be content that you've found something that works for you and accept that other people have different preferences? The constant need to run down the primary competition, Microsoft and/or Windows, just makes you look like a sad pathetic little man. Your actions are screaming the complete opposite of what you're saying with words. I'm sure you'll take that as me casting some kind of aspersions, but really I'm trying to help. Watching you is like watching an addict spiral out of control on their way to rock bottom. It's not the sort of thing a non-sadist or sociopath (in the clinical sense, meaning a complete lack of empathy) would take pleasure in. I'm sure you'll just break this olive branch over your knee like all the rest, but in all honestly, take some time for a little introspection. Ask yourself why it should matter what anyone else does; you claim to get a great deal of utility from Linux, so why is that not enough? How does my using Windows rob you of any of the utility you claim to get from using Linux? If the answer is none, why then do you insist on running down a product you don't even use? You're not fooling anyone, save maybe yourself, with the constant bluster. "

Gheez, you really should seek some help. Nobody said a thing about Linux except YOU. Seen any strawmen lately? Tilted a few windmills? There's people who liked Microsoft Bob, maybe you were one of them. If so, then good for you. Anyway, I didn't draw the comparison, someone else did. I found it interesting 2 years later how bang on they were in their assessment of the expected reaction. Your name isn't in the post, so can't understand your taking it so personal, that's really odd of you to do so.
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Time to put down
Sep 20, 2014 12:08AM PDT

Time to put down the Sycophant's Talking Points and try doing a little thinking for yourself.

Besides, as I stated, that was all an unrelated preamble, so I am the one who should be asking about the strawmen given you're trying to turn it into something more. You constantly run around the Windows forums talking about how much better you think Linux is and trying to run down Windows and making ad hominem attacks on people who express an opinion that isn't negative towards Windows 8. Even better is when you make ad hominem attacks against someone you think is making ad hominem attacks. Those are the extra special comments. I keep going back and forth between it being a very severe and acute case of denial or just plain double standards.

If you really liked Linux as much as you repeatedly claim, you wouldn't be acting like you do. If your love for Linux was as deep and strong as you've proclaimed numerous times, you wouldn't be seeking out old articles on Windows 8. You wouldn't overlook the grand canyon sized holes in the comparisons drawn between two products developed over a decade apart with entirely different goals in mind (and that's just the thesis of the article), you wouldn't then go to the effort of trolling a Windows forum by posting it.

If the only way you can feel good about yourself and the choices you've made are to run down others, that should tell you something.

There's a fine Linux forum offered by CNet where you might be much happier. Far be it from me to say you should confine yourself only to that forum, but if all you have to contribute on the Windows forum are pathetic trolling attempts and ad hominem attacks against anyone who expresses positive opinions towards Windows, maybe it would be best you confine yourself solely to the Linux forum. At least until you can learn to act like an adult and learn to accept that just because someone has a different view on a subject from you doesn't automatically mean that it's any less valid from your view.

If you want to prove you actually can do that, try responding to some of the actual content of my earlier post in a mature way. You can use this little guide for "How to disagree" as a measuring stick for how well you're doing.

http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html

Here's a graphical representation

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg

Set yourself a goal of reaching, and remaining at, the counterargument level or higher. Right now you're basically at the name calling level, though you did briefly jump to contradiction.

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Now that the office added Classic Shell,
Sep 15, 2014 11:24AM PDT

The office banned 8 for a time. Then Classic Shell came along and now those on 8 are not going back. So when folk want to bring up 8 issues, you wonder if they actually used it or added this freebie.
Bob

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Still, Classic Shell isn't windows 8
Sep 16, 2014 5:48AM PDT

It's a add-on, like someone preferring Firefox instead of IE.

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And then
Sep 16, 2014 7:52AM PDT

There's Opera fans. Sometimes they can be as enthusiastic as Linux/XP diehards.
Bob

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I used version 10
Sep 16, 2014 12:53PM PDT

it was the last one I found that was working on W2K, and it was OK, looked nice, but I just preferred FF.

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Did you ever see "Bubba"?
Sep 16, 2014 12:54PM PDT

It was a takeoff on "Microsoft Bob"

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(NT) Just on the collector can.
Sep 16, 2014 1:02PM PDT
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it's the alternate down home country version of MSbob
Sep 16, 2014 8:47PM PDT
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Thanks, I had forgotten the TTF story.
Sep 17, 2014 9:16AM PDT

"When defective TrueType fonts were being widely distributed, I did a freeware VB program that tested uninstalled TT fonts and identified ones that would crash Windows. My OsoSoft OKFonts was recommended in Microsoft's Knowledge Base for that purpose. Odd that Microsoft didn't build that into Windows to block defective .ttf files from being installed. "Not invented here..." I guess."

Bob is not a NIH fan.

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NIH shunned, yet....
Sep 18, 2014 12:19AM PDT

...billions spent on acquisitions. I guess in a roundabout way NIH manages to get into their products at times.