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General discussion

Is there interest in laser photo printing?

Jan 30, 2006 5:42PM PST

Hi. I'm the product manager for laser specialty/photo papers at HP and was interested in dialogue around printing photos on color laser printers. I see many discussions about the subject and am curious what people's interest is in printing photos on laser.

While it is true that color lasers cannot print the high gloss photo quality that inkjets can, with the right paper on the right printers, professional/ offset print quality can be obtained. Color lasers have come way down in price and up in quality and we have introduced heavy glossy papers for photo printing. I'm curious what the usage/need is, and especially if their is interest in printing 4x6 photos on color lasers. Look forward to hearing from you, Mark

Discussion is locked

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It's the money.
Jan 31, 2006 8:26AM PST

If you go see what some print shops have, the printers run more than what most home users will pay. The interest is there, but for now for the money, home will mean ink and dye sub.

Bob

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How about business photo?
Jan 31, 2006 4:15PM PST

I could show that a laser snapshot is cheaper than an inkjet but let's assume it is - what would be the interest in business?

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Interest is already there.
Feb 1, 2006 12:01AM PST

Not a problem of "interest", just the money. If you head to printing shops and find the high end laser photo capable printer then you can research how many dollars.

Interest may help printer companies declare there is a market, but it will take time to see the price come to a point you will buy it.

Bob

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What if?
Feb 1, 2006 3:37AM PST

What if good photo capability was available on a $300 color laser printer?

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Actually...
Feb 1, 2006 8:00AM PST

The interest would get there when we see the $ 3,000 printer. It will take just a little longer to hit 300.

It appears you didn't take my hint to visit a print shop to see what is currently being used. Then lookup how much these printers are.

Once you find that out, ink jets don't look so bad.

Bob

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To Clarify
Feb 1, 2006 11:23PM PST

When you say print shop do you mean a Kinko's or other print-for-pay type shop or are you referring to a photo development shop like One Hour Photo or a drug store or something and the expensive photo development equipment there?

What do you see as being the requirements of a photo's features (weight, finish, level of quality) in order for it to be acceptable? Are there different levels of requirements based on the use/application of the photo (hang up versus frame or in a photo album)? To what extent would someone be willing to trade something off in order to get a lower price or faster print or more durable print?

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Yes, those sort of shops.
Feb 1, 2006 11:36PM PST

What you might be looking for is here today at almost your price range in the dye-sub printers. Better paper and good inkjets are good too. But with far too many 99 buck printers, many are confused why output looks this way.

Did you find a print shop and snag a printer model they use and then find it's price?

-> Here, at home and office we have prints in frames from inkjets galore. We like them. I guess someone could whip out a Proofing Loop Magnifier and call it a bad print?

Bob

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Real nice
Feb 2, 2006 12:15AM PST

AT $300 range, you're certainly into what users can afford and budget for if the photo quality is there. Inkjets will seriously have competition to deal with now. The virtues of inkjets are quickly outpaced by laserjet if kept at levels that inkjets seem to be offered at. As Robert mentions, cost is everything to far more users than anything else, *but* inkjet users seem to forget the problems associated with ink that the laserjet don't. Laserjets have thier problems and if kept to a minium, I don't see why users won't switch to laserjet. All-in-all if laserjets offer photo qulaity output at decent cost, reliability and speed, inkjets will start to fade in usage, IMHO. A sore point maybe "consumables" like toner and paper, they should be reasonable and at least be on par with ink and hopefully become lower as time goes by. The biggest(loudest) inkjet user complaint is cost of ink and that shouldn't continue with toner, be warned. Wink

tada -----Willy Happy

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Have you priced Color laser toner?
Feb 2, 2006 12:24AM PST

It's the primary reason we didn't get one at home.

The 300 dollar mark is set by this poster as their "I'll buy it" price and not what is on the market.

What I'm thinking is the poster is new to the printing world and may not feel that today's printers are the bargain of the decade.

Bob

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$300 and lower is real
Feb 2, 2006 6:12AM PST

Thanks. If I understand you post: I've seen the HP CLJ2600 as low as $200-$250 depending on the promotion. Other vendors have also already introduced sub $300 printers. See my othe post about cartridge prices.

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I've seen those. They don't meet your requirements.
Feb 2, 2006 6:16AM PST

Have you see photos from these?

I know of these printers, but your posts suggest you would be quite upset at the output.

Bob

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Range of quality requirements-Laser Photo Value Proposition
Feb 3, 2006 1:55AM PST

The fact is, there is a range of quality that people expect depending on their application. On-line forums show evidence that some people are printing photos on laser and are quite satisfied. Then there are others that say it falls short. They, and everyone inbetween, are right. For some business and casual applications, the right laser printer on the right paper can produce satisfactory results. For a professional photographer or a family photo album it doesn't.

The inkjet market is stagnant but color lasers are experiencing high growth and will continue to penetrate the home/home office market. The question is, for whom is the quality good enough and what tradeoffs are users willing to make.

For example, is the laser quality good enough if it rivals offset or Kinko's type quality, if you can print a 4x6 for 18 cents, don't require any dry time, can print a photo in 8 seconds, it won't smear/smudge or bleed, resists water, resists fade as well as or better than a traditional (AgX) photo, can stack or sleeve without sticking, etc.?

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is the laser quality good enough if it rivals offset or ???
Feb 3, 2006 1:14PM PST

No. But you can see this for yourself if you go look at the printers and their sample prints. Since you know about Kinkos, look at the make/model printer they use and then price those out.

I think dye sub is what you may be looking for.

Bob

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my casual needs
Feb 3, 2006 2:00PM PST

I get that price or better when I upload my pics to Wal-Mart Photo. Good quality on good paper. I can wait an hour for my home photos. Don't have to drop a dime on a printer & supplies.

I understand that some want their instant mashed potatoes, but this is convenient enough for me.

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Got it
Feb 2, 2006 12:40PM PST

Robert, I understand the $300 price as an intro price or "pie in the sky" offering if and when available. I just wanted to point out that consumables are part of the picture as well. Yeah, toner when multipled 4X for color usage, etc. gets expensive but at least the printer is a bargain. This will play just as inkjet printers that came out expensive for basic output then pricing when down but those replacement inkcarts just hang in there at high levels.

I do feel present color laser printers do offer alot of bang for the buck, but photo quality is still elusive for the home market for entry level users. It took along time even for monochrome to come down. But, heck I don't buy new anymore, I wait for used and repair or salvage.

adios -----Willy Happy

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Sensitivity to prices
Feb 2, 2006 6:09AM PST

Thanks. I certainly appreciate the sensitivity to supplies prices. I buy them too. One interesting point about laser and toner is that while the initial outlay for a cartridge gives sticker shock ($50+), they print thousands of pages and no more and sometimes less expensive than inkjet on a per print basis. Some have come to recognize that they last a long time but they have to get past the initial purchase which may be a barrier for some.

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Not cheap, but less expensive
Feb 2, 2006 12:46PM PST

Oh I understand that and pass it on to the clients/customers. However, when presented with the bill of x-number of printers of a decent sized office, they quickly find a source to fulfill thier needs. Its quite rare for SOHOs or mid-sized business not to carry OEM labeled toner and pick a trusted refiller/generic brand.

tada -----Willy Happy

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Good Photo quality on a $300 color laser printer
Feb 3, 2006 2:09AM PST

I would be interested in a $300.00 color laser printer! Have been shopping for one. I am a home user, who has used Epson inkjet printers. My last used Durabrite ink cartridges which gave great ouput on regular paper but has "bit the dust" with clogging inkjets. Have finally decided to invest in a color laser printer which means that I will have to relinquish the detail of >= 4800 dpi.
Am looking at the Ricoh CL2000 or Ricoh CL2000N. Unfortunately HP doesn't currently offer a color laser above 600 dpi. I wouldn't buy a color laser that was limited to a 4" X 6" photo. I would buy a laser that allows me to choose what size I would like to print.

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$299 color laser, more to quality than dpi, more than 4x6
Feb 3, 2006 7:20AM PST

A couple of things. First, I should clarify that the printer wouldn't be a dedicated 4x6 but rather a regular letter/legal size that was capable of printing 4x6. As you look at laser, I want to make sure you understand you will not get high gloss inkjet photo quality so you're not disappointed.

Regarding quality: there is much more to quality than dpi. DPI has been the recognized metric by which people have evaluated quality on print devices for years but the technology has moved beyond dpi alone. For example, how large the dots are, how they are placed on top of each other, the level of toner charge control for accurate placement, and other factors all contribute to the quality of the output. HP uses its ImageREt technology to communicate the comparable/equivalent quality of its printers. For example, the CLJ2600 has ImageREt 2400 technology which means it prints at a 2400 dpi equivalent level. Because you will find varying opinions on-line, the best thing to do might be to go into a retail store and print the demo page out of the devices to compare. Be aware that the quality on a plain sheet of paper will pale in comparison to the quality on a coated sheet.

As far as getting a deal, I suggest going to bizrate.com or some other shopping comparison site and search for the HP Color LaserJet 2600 printer. You'll find it $100 off for $299 at Best Buy on-line or for $289 refurbished with warranty at HP's Small & Medium Business Outlet store on-line.

Just for fun, I cut some of HP's letter size Glossy Photo Laser Paper down to 4x6 sheets and ran them through the CLJ2600 and thought it looked pretty sharp. I adjusted the universal tray to 4x6 and set the driver to 4x6 under custom and it ran great.