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Is it true? Vista upgrades invalidate XP licenses???

by LifeStar / January 30, 2007 11:36 PM PST

I found this article on digg and wanted to ask if anyone can verify that this is true?

http://www.tomcoyote.org/tech/vista-upgrade-invalidates-your-xp-key/74/

Apparently, according to the EULA, once you perform an upgrade installation, the XP key that you used to install XP will become invalidated! Thus, if you don't like Vista and want to revert back, or if you wanted to do a dual-boot system, it ain't happening if you have the upgrade version.

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Upgrade bad...
by Evil Penguin / January 30, 2007 11:49 PM PST

In one way it makes sense (not allowing you to have XP _and_ Vista if you bought an upgrade license for Vista), but it doesn't really seem nice not to leave the option to roll back to XP if Vista doesn't turn out well for you.

The upgrade version of Vista seems rather bad in general...


http://arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.ars/2007/1/31/6828, however might be able to work around this too. Or does it do something to the old key already in the install phase, even if installation is done that way?

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addition...
by Evil Penguin / January 30, 2007 11:54 PM PST
In reply to: Upgrade bad...

I must add that I'm not that sure that it's something that is actually enforced by the software. It may just be a license rule that you may not use both XP and Vista if you bought an upgrade license.

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I'm hoping it's not a true invalidation
by LifeStar / January 31, 2007 2:45 AM PST
In reply to: addition...

If it's about not letting you have a dual-boot system, okay, that I can understand. The thing that worries me from the article is that if the upgrade contacts microsoft and then invalidates the XP key, making it likely you'll get a windows defender msg saying you have a pirated copy of XP should you decide to revert back.

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i would bet its not enforced
by kellenjb / January 31, 2007 2:51 AM PST

It makes sense why they have it in the EULA, although I would bet it's not enforced. I wouldn't be suprised if it was in old version EULAs as well.

If I want to get an upgraded car but don't want to pay full price I would go and trade in my car for a new one. That is essentially what you are doing here.

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wrong analogy ...
by tony12345 / February 2, 2007 8:56 AM PST

So your going to trade your XP OS software (that YOU paid for) in on a Vista Upgrade to get it cheaper ....???????????????????
.... and who'd be silly enough to buy a upgrade anyway, definitely not a good idea, especially with this OS ...
be a very long while before I'd even contemplate going to Vista ... way to many bad stories coming out... and it's only been out 5 minutes!

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so you can't put it on another machine???
by robstak / January 31, 2007 5:02 AM PST

do you think that's why?

Or if you had XP you only have to pay for the upgrade not the full one, so itd save you money???

Pretty $$-hungry

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From Vista?s EULA
by ozyman4269 / January 31, 2007 5:36 PM PST

From Vista?s EULA

13. UPGRADES. To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that is eligible for the upgrade. Upon upgrade, this agreement takes the place of the agreement for the software you upgraded from. After you upgrade, you may no longer use the software you upgraded from.

It's ambiguous whether or not you can go back to XP or not if Vista totally buggers your machine.

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Seems similar in Xp
by netmasta / January 31, 2007 11:38 PM PST
In reply to: From Vista?s EULA

From XP Pro OEM full version:

15. UPGRADES.
If the SOFTWARE is labeled as an upgrade, you must be
properly licensed to use a product identified by MS or
Microsoft Corporation as being eligible for the upgrade in
order to use the SOFTWARE ("Eligible Product"). For the
purpose of upgrade(s) only, "HARDWARE" shall mean the
computer system or computer system component with which you
received the Eligible Product. SOFTWARE labeled as an
upgrade replaces and/or supplements (and may disable, if
upgrading a Microsoft software product) the Eligible
Product which came with the HARDWARE. After upgrading, you
may no longer use the SOFTWARE that formed the basis for
your upgrade eligibility (unless otherwise provided).
You
may use the resulting upgraded product only in accordance
with the terms of this EULA and only with the HARDWARE.
If the SOFTWARE is an upgrade of a component of a package
of software programs that you licensed as a single product,
the SOFTWARE may be used and transferred only as part of
that single product package and may not be separated for
use on more than one computer.

*emphasis added.

My guess is that this doesn't apply to full versions. Especially since you're paying full price.

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Money, all about money.
by BretTaylor / February 1, 2007 7:39 PM PST
In reply to: Seems similar in Xp

I have to belive that the Apple people are very happy with Vista. Makes me consider a Mac for sure. Yet another OS that might or might not work. When will get Microsoft get it figured out that people are tired of this. I was considering getting Vista but if it does not work they are going to invalidate my XP version? I don't think so. I paid well for that and unless they can promise me that this new version will work why take the chance? I understand their reasoning and if they could promise no problems I'd be happy to agree with them but they are not. So a person buys and upgrades and it fails to work so now to get their XP back they get to buy it again so now they are out the Vista cost and XP again. Please don't tell me it isn't all about money because that's exactly what it is.

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Yep and Apple wants money too! And Linux just wants...??
by dakz2006 / February 1, 2007 9:28 PM PST

Your right! It's all about the money, and it gets old seeing the richest person in the world cry poor mouth, and then having the nerve to stand there with a straight face and know Vista is selling for as much as it is!
I suppose there is also humor in the fact that Microsoft is waging this battle against pirated software, and yet think that raising the price of the operating system to over $400 will combat that! Yeah for Bill Gates to be so smart he missed the ship on that logic!
Now I just read an article that says that Apple will start charging for updates, and service packs, and the amount will be equal to the price of OSX! Do you get the feeling that Steve and Bill are having lunch together and Steve is tired of Bill sticking him with the check?
So lets review kiddies,
Price of RAM has skyrocketed because that 512mb that did you so well in XP is now pretty much worthless.
While Vista is supposed to run on an 800mhz processor, why is only the dual core processors the only ones that are vista certified?
According to Microsoft my mothers old HP will run Vista, but if you go look at the retailers, the high end systems are the ones with the Vista logo!
I ordered a new processor 2 weeks ago, this week it went up by $200! amazing that happened the same time Vista came out!
Will the poor PC guy on the Apple commercials finally get revenge by stating that yes macs do get viruses, and $129 for a service pack, who are you kidding Mac?
Now there is a ton of confusion about product keys, 32 vs 64bit, and upgrade versus retail, vs OEM, and it's only the beginning folks! This monster hasn't even been out a week yet!
I recieved an e-mail from one of the editors here claiming that Vista was nothing more then a service pack for XP. Interesting thought. When XP came out it was new, there was some real new technology behind it, and it lasted us for a lot of years!, sure it's had a ton of Service Packs, updates, etc., but you know what there are still a lot of life left in the ol' girl. Before XP Windows 2000 proved that it was a great improvement of technology over Windows 98. Now lets remember that the first release of 98 was a joke, and fast replaced with 98SE. And who could forget the joke of an OS called Windows ME? And as far as that goes I think that Windows XP MCE 2005 is pretty much a failure since you really don't hear much about it. Kind of makes you wonder if Vista will be another XP or are we looking at another flop.
Yes my friends it is all about the money, remember last summer before all the hype, when you could pick up the phone and order a new Dell for less then $300, kinda hard to do with an Operating system installed that cost more then that.
You know this is simple, it is like Coke(Microsoft) arguing with Pepsi (Apple) and meanwhile over in the corner is a kid with a lemonade stand that people are starting to look real hard at, why would I pay so much for so little when there is a kid (Linux) over there that would be very happy for my market share, his stuff is clean, I don't have to buy a $422 (Vista Ultimate at Best Buy) glass to put it in, I really don't have to upgrade anything to get what I need, what you have a 100 or so different varities? Free refills (updates, and upgrades), wait your telling me that most of it is free all I have to do is provide the container to put it in? And it will run great on my Mother's 6 year old glass (computer).
Yep for those that can't see the writting on the wall, and it would be fun to come back and read this, I bet by the time the next Windows, or MAC OS comes out the world will look a lot different, a little penguin will be a lot bigger bird.
I have used Windows since 3.0, I got it Free for buying it bundled with a logitech mouse, it didn't require registering, activation, and it sure wasn't on a DVD, the whole OS was on a handful of floppy disks. There was no CD key, there was no outrageous system requirements, I have had all the Windows versions since, NT, WFW, even ME, I now use 64bit software, because in this day and age of bloated software to combat the terrorists threat of viruses, spyware and other malware, we have to have huge amounts of RAM, extreme processors that we can overclock for even more, giant harddrives to hold this and still have room for afore mentioned malware.
And everytime they have something new, we throw our money at it, after all the kid at best buy that will start shaving next week said we had to have it!
Yes my friend it is all about the money and they all are getting rich from us, and I think the more I look at Vista, maybe all it is could be a $422 service pack for XP.

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all about money
by frmtrkr / February 2, 2007 2:41 AM PST

well we know it is all about monet. i bought new computer from best buy, it worked for 20 minutes. took it back and was told would take 3 weeks to get a refund because i paid cash
when i told em not likely, they came up with anoher machine, which had to have modifications done to match what i purchased the day before
3 months later it was back at the shop, and that was the end of the warranty
aol was blamed for the computer being buggered
4 months later another problem not covered by warranty
the computer could not make a back up copy of XP so eventually microsoft told me it was not their problem , it was a problem with computer manufacturer.so then i went to emachines
blah blah blah
so emachines sent me 4 disks , supposedly with xp on them
these would not load
so i then had technician to the house who tried again
then he figured out the disks were corrupt so emachines remotely loaded drivers that should have been on disk # 4
i was then told that my warranty would expire in a couple of days annd would i like to buy an extension. LOL why buy what they wont honor . then i was told i would be sent new disks for xp
now 3 months later i am still waiting for my paid for xp to arrive and hoping like hell that windows doesnt f--k up again
so yes it is about the money
once they have your money, they dont care
needless to sayi will not buy vista . and if i can find other programmes, i wouldnt buy anything windows either

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here's a solution:
by geefour / February 5, 2008 1:45 AM PST
In reply to: all about money

1. use someone's computer to download Ubuntu or some Linux distrobution that runs as a live CD.
2. using the BitTorrent client and Firefox, search for XP.
3. once the XP CD image is downloaded, use the CD burning application.
4. reboot - replacing the Linux CD with the Windows CD
5. install XP using the licensed XP key on the sticker on your PC - even if the download comes with "generated numbers"!

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about the money - wow
by dramcooly / February 2, 2007 1:03 PM PST

My laptop is 4 months old Dell with xp home (restrictive), with the understanding of a free upgrade to Vista. To upgrade, I was shattered. Upon checking with Cnet, I will need a new graphics card (excessive cost). Checking with Microsoft, i will lose most of my drivers and programs. I may as well stay with xp rather than the expense of a new pc. Had I waited longer, the laptop would have been more expensive with Vista loaded and program drivers worked out.
A clear case of pay me now and/or pay me later.

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Vista and Linux
by hammerhead / February 3, 2007 11:10 AM PST

I currently run a dual boot system, Xp Pro and Linus Xandros. When compared together Xandros runs rings arounf Xp in all departemnts. I downloaded a Beta Version of Vista Ultimate and ran it for a few months and when compared to Xandros it was prettier, for sure, but in effect I had an operating sytem which matched Vista almost completely, for $60US, so theres no comparison. Xandros Pro looks and feels very much like a Microsoft operating system, because its been designed that way, is easy to use, ok there are some little quirks, but once you understand it its no problems. Linux does not need to be defragged, has every conceivable software program preinstalled, office equivelant etc, AND can read Windows operating software, enough said. My only reason for not switching over full time to Xandros is there is still not enough third party software being written for the Linux application, but its getting there. Linux of all flavours (of which there are many) is going to be a serious contender of the future.

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Apple indeed
by nmharleyrider / February 1, 2007 10:36 PM PST

There are no promises from any company with software as complex as this. You have to realize there are bugs in any software that does anything and no matter how much alpha and beta testing is done there will remain some bugs in the product. If you want 100% guarantees, remove all software from your computer including you current OS, whatever it is and however old it is as it probably still has unfound and known unresolved bugs in it. My god, the complexity of this software with its thousands and thousands of modules designed to keep us users happy with all the bells and whistles we want or we complain as well as the huge variety of hardware we buy, some which is not compatible with others profers a huge challenge to a software company. Apple for years only supported their own hardware and so there is a definite and finite limit to the number of variations in their hardware configurations. Of course Apple always cost more and did not have the wide range of software available that we all wanted. It's a trade off, pay more, get less, get fewer bugs or pay less, get lots more, but get a few bugs which rarely affect the average user anyway. IT's not about money, it's about moving ahead technology-wise.

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OK so where is it???
by dakz2006 / February 2, 2007 4:19 AM PST
In reply to: Apple indeed

OK I can agree with your oppinion, and as one of the millions of Vista testers I had a chance to try all the developments as they came, including Vista Longhorn Server 5600, you should try this, you will see the technology in action, forget the fancy visual effects you see with Vista, this looks exactly like Windows 2000, or Windows 2003.
Even with Vista you have the ability to turn off all the fancy visuals, and take a look at what you got. I fail to see any new technology there. It looks like a cross between XP and 2003, it acts like 2003, about as user friendly as 2003, the kernal is 2003. So since I am kinda new at this (about 30 years in computers) maybe you can help me with what new technology did Vista bring? An OS on a DVD? an overpriced spyware scanner? A new way to mess up dual booting, the speech engine that has been available from M$ for 11 years as a stand alone program? The fact that you can skin XP to look and act exactly like vista (Vista Transformation Pack 6) really shows that XP is still way ahead of Vista, and that if you go in vista and turn off all the fancy visuals you have a os that some software wont run on, has a built in spyware sweeper a pretty stable platform based on NT technology, use the NTFS system to save disk space...wait that is XP SP2 and windows 2003!

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Reply to dakz2006
by slkpanther / February 2, 2007 5:05 AM PST
In reply to: OK so where is it???

Think I will stay with XP.... I would have stayed with Windows98 but since they weren't doing anymore regular updates for it I decided to go with XP and like it. Going to go with my instincts and stick with it. Every thing in me says not to go to Vista... same as I was feeling with WindowsMe.

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About the Vista
by slkpanther / February 2, 2007 3:16 AM PST
In reply to: Seems similar in Xp

Where did you get this information. Can you please include the link? I am in the process of informing all my email contacts about the downside of Vista so this would be helpful.

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upgrade to vista
by lonesome_cowboy4 / February 2, 2007 6:03 AM PST
In reply to: About the Vista

Hi all, I'am some kinda new in this, but i've realised that an upgrade on a pc running xp is not that easy, 'causse it requires a lot off space of your harddrive, and if there isn't enough space you can't upgrade to vista, either ways vista has no media player as well, there need to be worked onso i suggest take a whole backup off your files and then install vista, if you want to confirm your pc's oem version it just gives back the serial numbre you've had before and just call the assistant to ask your numbre of your serial which has been deliverd of the first install of xp, so i hope this will work and i do hope you're satisfied to Denis

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Vista and DRM
by RJ59 / February 2, 2007 7:19 AM PST
In reply to: About the Vista

Want to inform all your e-mail contacts about the downside of Vista? Do like I've done, and send 'em this link: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
What Microsoft has done here is an absolute disgrace, and I guarantee you anyone reading this in depth study won't be in a rush to go out and get this turkey.

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buggered machine
by nmharleyrider / February 1, 2007 10:28 PM PST
In reply to: From Vista?s EULA

That's not ambiguous, that's disasterous.

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Not surprising
by benanzo / February 2, 2007 3:28 AM PST
In reply to: From Vista?s EULA

The biggest barrier to adoption of MS' new OSs has always been convincing users to leave the old one. DOS gave way to win3.0-1 which took a long time. Even today, there are some 30million win98 users. That's almost a 10 year old OS.
Dell, HP, etc. began shipping Vista upgrade machines 3 months ago, right? So that means that when the purchaser of that machine got it home, they had XP SP2 installed. They also had a coupon for a Vista upgrade. So now, they are redeeming their coupons and getting the upgrade version of Vista in the mail. But should they install it? Many knowledgable people would suggest no. This does not mean that they are not firing it up just to have a look and see what all the hoopla is. But, because it is the upgade version, they are legally prohibited from then going back to XP (which they paid for as well.) It would be very easy to enforce this policy if the user registered their new Vista upgrade during the install. It would send both product keys (the old XP PK and the new Vista PK) to MS. If the user tried to wipe their machine and reinstall XP, they couldn't register it because MS knows that it was already upgraded to Vista. If that user then called MS and said: "Hey, I want XP back, not Vista." The rep would probably try their darndest to convince them to stay with Vista, but would then allow them to reinstall XP. I've personally installed my copy of WinXP Pro on several different machines (not at the same time.) Each install requires me to call MS. They know how many times I've installed and on all the different hardware. So why do they continue to allow me to use this copy? Market share. I always say: "I tried switching over to Linux when I got my new motherboard because XP had problems, but now I want to go back to XP. If I have to buy it again, I'll just stay with Linux." That scares/delights them. I'm just playing their game. MS needs piracy to maintain it's market share. Do you really think all these pirates are going to *buy* Vista if they can't pirate it? Some will, I think most wont. These are people who wouldn't buy MS software anyway, so to MS it's better if they pirate it so at least MS gets the market share. That's why MS will never be really serious about cracking down on wholesale piracy. It would only push illegal windows users to be legal (linux) users. That would cause a rapid uptake of desktop linux. That's market share that MS doesn't want to lose. Market share is just as important as money in this industry.

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Pretty good points, but only one flaw in it all!
by dakz2006 / February 3, 2007 6:56 AM PST
In reply to: Not surprising

Your right about most of this, their is one small problem and you can read about it on M$ web site about fake copies of vista. in their own words They retain all rights to their intellectual property.
Think about this! You never can buy Windows, the $422 you pay for Vista Ultimate is not for Windows, or even a copy of it, and back when XP first came out they were saying the same thing.
you are buying a license to install this (either through upgrade or outright fresh install) but with the upgrade you must have a qualifying product, (they tried this before with 98SE), and you instantly surrender your rights to that license for the older version.
But the fact is here and if you read the EULA you will see that you never own the software, you never own a copy of it, if you did you could do with it as you want, install it on as many computers as you wanted, back in the day the first thing in the Microsoft book that came with windows was to make a copy of windows and put the original away for safekeeping, then you owned the copy of the software.
Young Mr. Gates wants to blame all this on piracy. Which he is very guilty of back when he and Paul Allen wrote MS-DOS there were huge chunks of it stolen from IBM-DOS as well as several other DOS's that were around at the time. So lets apply some common sense to it, no one is pirating Linux cost more to do it then it cost to go and download it. And what is more likely to be pirated a software title that is free or one that costs over $400? Then Mr. Gates had the nerve to stand their and challenge the pirates saying that Vista couldn't be "cracked" and later that night there were cracks all over for the RC1 build of Vista. And no doubt there are scores of people sitting in front of their monitors looking at millions of lines of code, and no doubt that one of them will come up with a crack.
There is no doubt that Windows is intellectual property, can't argue that, there is no doubt that I didn't invent the spoon, but I can buy one and do whatever I want with it, and how arrogant of me if I was to to get upset because someone else wants to use a spoon, or God forbide they actually made improvements to it. Maybe I should go and patent the spoon and charge for a license to use my spoon.
And speaking of arrogance 2 thoughts to finish this, am I the only one that saw Microsoft go nuts since Bill Gates went before congress, (which you have to see the humor in knowing that all the documents against him were prepared in windows/office, like being killed by your own creation!) and am I the only one tired of hearing the richest man on earth whine about how much piracy is costing him! Tell you what Mr. Gates do your self and the world a favor, lower the price of Windows Vista to a point where it is not worth stealing, and you will see more money because you wont have to spend it on combating piracy, and more copies will be sold, rather then stolen! And shove your license up .....

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Vista's Problems
by slkpanther / February 2, 2007 3:19 AM PST

All I can say is that all along I have thought this is as bad as WindowsMe and we know how long that lasted. Then I read this thread and it is not only as bad as WindowsMe was but with an added... uuummm ... disability.

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XP Vs. Vista Upgrade
by jljcom / February 2, 2007 7:17 AM PST

For the layment like me, if I don't like my Vista upgrade and try to revert back to XP, I will lose my files/documents/settings etc. I had when I used XP?

- Jen

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only if you don't backup your user directory
by benanzo / February 2, 2007 2:43 PM PST
In reply to: XP Vs. Vista Upgrade

There is only one way to go back to XP from Vista, and that is to format your drive and reinstall XP. In that case everything will be gone. You need to make a copy of all your important files on a CD or external disk first. If you want all your settings (your bookmarks, etc) you need to copy your user directory as well. (C:\\Documents And Settings\Your_Username\) I forget the exact path (haven't used windows in a long time.) You should definitely do this before attempting the upgrade to Vista, because if it screws up, you need to have saved your stuff first. After XP is done reinstalling, just copy your user directory back to where it was and re-login. Most things will be back to normal. However, some stupid applications don't save their preferences in the user's directory, but instead save that stuff in its program directory (C:\\Program Files\Stupid_Program's_Folder). If that's the case, your screwed because all those preferences are toast unless you make a backup of each program's folder.

FYI, you will most likely have trouble re-validating XP's Product Key because if you registered Vista when you upgraded, MS probably invalidated the original XP key. Just call them and complain. Good Luck.

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To upgrade or not to upgrade
by jazzy5 / February 4, 2007 5:03 AM PST

Let's look this from a logical standpoint. You buy your Windows Vista for $99 for the most basic Vista upgrade. Once you open the package you cannot return it. So bye bye to $99 or more. You did not read any of the Windows Vista upgrade review. You just when and install Vista and now you find out you did not like it. What do you do now?

We know you cannot return Vista. You jump into the middle of the ocean without knowing if you can swim. I believe you deserve to drown. They are hundred of Windows Vista review, so you can do a wise decision. From this point on you will need to reformat your hard drive and reinstall Windows XP. Usually you have around 10 days to a month to test drive Windows Vista before you have to register. Enought time to find out if Vista is for you. This way your Windows XP key is still good,

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I might be wrong..
by benanzo / February 4, 2007 7:05 AM PST

but, let me explain:

In December, a user bought a new Dell machine. It had XP SP2 installed. I assume the price of XP SP2 was bundled into the price of the machine, as was the upgrade coupon they got for Vista. Does that sound logical? MS charging Dell for a license to an OS that would (presumably) be invalidated in two months? Yeah, that sounds right. But, in order for Dell to offer the Vista upgrade coupon, I assume they had to buy that from MS also, thus passing that cost onto the purchaser of the machine. So, technically, that user bought one computer and two operating systems, with the vendors' (dell and ms) full intention of invalidating one if the other is installed and NOT offering a refund for the invalidated one which was only used for two months) This is starting to sound a little weird. I'll let you guys figure it out.

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answer vista upgrades invalidate XP licenses
by anurags3 / February 5, 2007 2:44 PM PST

yes it is true

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