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General discussion

Is it legal to make backup copies of my purchased DVDs and Blu-rays?

Jun 1, 2012 8:01AM PDT
Question:

Is it legal to make backup copies of my purchased DVDs and Blu-rays?


I am wondering if there is a way to make backup copies of my media. Back
in the day when I purchased a new album (black acetate records), I
would copy it to reel to reel and put the album away for safe keeping.
I still do the same today and I also make backup copies of all my
CDs. My problem is what can I do to make backup copies of my DVD and
Blu-ray collection. I would hate to see something happen to them and
have to purchase them new again. Is there a way that I can do this?
But first is it legal to do as I get conflicting answers that it is
illegal to back them up even if I purchase them for my use and own
them. What's the difference between this media and my records and CDs
that I have backed up? Please help explain this. Thanks.

--Submitted by Michael

Discussion is locked

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Is it legal to make backup copies of my purchased DVDs
Jun 1, 2012 2:52PM PDT

This controversial subject had some clarification in the summer of 2010, when the 5th Circuit Court in New Orleans ruled in favor of General Electric when it used protected software unlocked through a hacked security key. "Merely bypassing a technological protection that restricts a user from viewing or using a work is insufficient to trigger the (Digital Millennium Copyright Act's) anti-circumvention provision," Judge Garza wrote for the New Orleans-based court. "The DMCA prohibits only forms of access that would violate or impinge on the protections that the Copyright Act otherwise affords copyright owners." More information on this ruling can be found at this link: http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/07/23/29099.htm

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Innocent until proven guilty? No, guilty, period.
Jun 1, 2012 6:33PM PDT

A number of countries have had a "levy" on recordable media, for example, Canada had it since the mid 90's, starting with audio tape and recordable CDs. I have a vague recollection of a concept called "innocent until proven guilty", but the levy assumes every bit of media will be used only for recording copyrighted works. It is not even guilty until proven innocent, there is no more "innocent".

Now they want to not only raise the levy, but expand it to other media as well, including the flash memory card in your digital camera:
"The proposed tax would be paid by manufacturers and importers of digital media to the Canadian Private Copying Collective (CPCC). The CPCC would then distribute the funds collected (minus administration fees) to musicians who hold copyrights on music in Canada.
If approved, the new tax would levy an additional fee of 59 cents (Canadian) on blank CDs. Memory cards, such as those used in handheld computers or digital cameras, would be taxed at 0.8 cents per megabyte of storage space. Manufacturers of blank DVD discs would pay an extra $2.27 per disk.
Hardware manufacturers would also be affected. Makers of MP3 players would pay $21 in fees for each gigabyte of memory available on their devices, raising the cost of devices like Apple's iPod".

After all, why would you want to waste the valuable space on that memory card with pictures when you could be carrying your media library on it? And of course, who would ever want to save to CDs or DVDs their pictures or video shot with their digital camera, or even, horror of horrors, send them to friends or relatives? No, it is obvious we are all just using them to avoid buying extra copies of our commercial music and movies.

Now, having said that, I do believe personal copying is legal in Canada due to these levies, but only for personal use, which by any sane definition, should be totally free of any tax or levy. After all, with both audio cassettes and CDs, you could play them in your home stereo system as well as your Walkman for audio tapes and portable CD players (need I say for your CDs?) What difference is there now that mp3 players are able to hold most if not all of your audio tracks, rather than carry the portable player and a suitcase for your audio tapes and/or CDs?

If is a cash grab, pure and simple, but the government who likes to tax everything, sees nothing wrong with this.

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I agree but...
Jun 8, 2012 12:29PM PDT

You said: "I do believe personal copying is legal in Canada due to these levies, but only for personal use, which by any sane definition, should be totally free of any tax or levy"

But the mess started when the copies were made friends. Back when home computers were new, there would be 10-15 pirated copies of a popular game for every store-bought copy.

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home media
Jun 8, 2012 1:36PM PDT

I don't think the poster was talking about copying comercial media... but home media ie. home movies and pictures....

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Right to copy
Jun 9, 2012 2:55AM PDT

I wouldn't argue that a law that states "thou shall not copy period" is or isn't constitutional but I do remember a case that I believe was tried in District Court and might have made its way to the supreme court where one of the elements of making a judgement against the defendent for violating copyright laws hung on whether damages could be shown against the plaintiff. I believe it was a case involving Texaco. It is hard for me to see that anyone copying for their personal use, backup or whatever, would be harmful to anyone else. And it would hardly be cause for anyone to lodge a complaint in the first place.

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Innocent until proven guilty? No, guilty, period.
Jun 9, 2012 5:39AM PDT

You missed a tiny, little, obvious detail: We are in the United States, and any Canadian government revenue-producing schemes will NOT apply to the USA.

<div>On the other hand, since the movie producing studios (and the recording studios, for that matter) in the USA CONTROL the laws pertinent to the subject, they actually dictate policy on this matter.
</div>

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Depends where you live
Jun 1, 2012 11:18PM PDT

If you are in the UK, it is perfectly legal as long as you DO NOT sell them or make money from them or anything.
If you are in the US, it is legal but you have to have proof you are using it for your backup purposes only. This can be quite extensive so it could just be better off buying another copy anyway.
If you are in Australia or New Zealand, the same laws apply as in the UK.

To rip DVD's/Blu-rays/whatever, you need to have ripping software on your computer. It really depends what software you are using but if, like most programs, it is simple to use, then it is pretty much self-explanatory. Please note that if you want to rip Blu-rays, you need to have a Blu-ray drive in your computer.

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UK = a NO for any copyrighted media actually
Jun 8, 2012 6:26PM PDT

It's been a few years since I did Copyright law, but at the time it was illegal to make any copy of any copyrighted media, and as far as I know, it's not changed.
Fair use covers things like photocopying a reasonable section of a book for academic purposes. It does not permit even ripping a CD. Playing it for demonstrative purposes or to a small group - ok just about permissable. That's how strict they are.
Good old Lord Alan Sugar's Amstrad got into hot water over the tape player with two cassette stations so you could copy from Tape A to Tape B, but because it could be used legitimately the tech isn't illegal. A single digital copy is a change of medium and therefore in breach of the law with no legal excuse.

Does everyone rip cds to put on their mp3 players? Did they turn records into tapes? Of course they did and do. It's a waste of resources to sue.

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Not Legal, But....
Jun 2, 2012 2:57AM PDT

Hi Michael

The short answer to your question without getting into a philosophical debate of Digital Rights Management (DRM) criteria is - "Yes" it is illegal to make copies, backups or duplicates of commercial DVD and Blu Ray discs that have been encoded to prohibit such actions. If the digital material is DRM free or has no prohibitive encoding to prevent copy or duplication...then copy or burn until your hearts content.

If you want to learn more about DRM and all the inconsistencies surrounding what's legal and not legal then click on the link below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_management

There are software programs on the market that will enable you to copy, backup or duplicate DRM or otherwise encoded commercial DVD's and Blu Ray discs. The following link will take you to a page within CNET where you can conduct research and has a link to a developers website (the developer is not based in the United States). I've heard the software works on commercial DVD and Blu Ray discs Cool :

http://download.cnet.com/windows/slysoft/3260-20_4-10037257.html?tag=rb_content;contentBody

A more important question you might ask yourself (discounting the legality issue) is whether or not making a copy, backup or duplicate is cost effective. Below you'll find a cost analysis I put together for you. All costs were derived from Best Buy and Micro Center websites.

I've read and/or heard the following:

If you are going to copy a commercial DVD or Blu Ray disc --- to get the best quality you'll want to use blank media that can hold the entire movie and sound track without compression. Therefore, you'll want to use Dual Layer 8.5 GB DVD blank media and Dual Layer 50 GB Blu Ray blank media. Although some of the rip programs allow you to eliminate extras and copy only the main title (or movie). A few movies may transfer to single layer 4.5 GB DVD media and/or single layer 25 GB Blu Ray media (but not many).

As you will see the cost to copy a commercial DVD is minimal. So if you make a "coaster" (DVD that is unreadable after a burn process) your out of pocket expense or Negative Impact Percentage is not too bad. On the other hand making a coaster with a Blu Ray disc can be expensive.

DVD Copy Cost Analysis

Maxell DVD+DL 8.5GB 50 Pack @ $39.39 or $0.79 per disc

Dynex 10 Pack DVD Storage Case @ $9.99 or $0.99 per case

Material cost per disc copy: $1.78

New Release DVD: $11.99 - $19.99

Total Cost of Original DVD and Copy: $13.77 - $21.77

Negative Impact Percentage to make copy: 15% high to 9% low


Blu Ray Copy Cost Analysis

Phillips BD-R DL 50GB 10 pack @ $119.99 or $11.99 per disc

Blu Ray Storage Case Blue10 Pack @ $6.99 or $0.69 per case

Material cost per disc copy: $12.68

New Release Blu Ray: $19.99 $24.99

Total Cost of Original Blu Ray and Copy: $32.67 - $37.67

Negative Impact Percentage to make copy: 63% high to 51% low


There are legal and less expensive ways to back-up movies you buy today.

Method 1
A lot of Blu Ray movies offer a "Digital Download" (DD) that you can store on a computer or download directly to another HD. Depending upon the source the DD will either be in 720p or 1080p. Some computers support video streaming to a TV Monitor.

Method 2
Digital Media Receivers like Apple TV and Roku allow you to purchase a digital format that can be saved to your computer HD. You can in turn backup that HD to another HD for a legitimate copy. The same device (like Apple TV's Air Play) will allow you to stream the movie via iTunes to a HD Monitor for family viewing.

The only drawback to the above methods is that your movies are not as portable as a disc.

That's all I have. I hope the information was helpful. Lastly, don't jeopardize your financial well being (incur a fine) or freedom or both to make a copy of a DRM or otherwise encoded commercial DVD or Blu Ray disc. Enjoy your movies Cool

Together Everyone Achieves More

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***?
Jun 3, 2012 11:06AM PDT

You have provided a very thought-out seeming cost analysis for making the duplicates, but there is a gaping hole in your logic.

You include the cost of the original disc in your cost of making the copies.

So if I read that correctly, you are claiming a negative impact due to the cost of copying being the actual cost to copy PLUS the cost of the original.

That would compare to wanting a backup copy by purchasing two more commercial discs, giving you three in total.

So please explain how copying to blank discs is a negative impact.

As you mentioned, while cheaper, other methods not involving copying to disc have disadvantages, not the least being that if your original is damaged, you now have NO disc.

Since you bought a disc in the first place, you must have wanted the physical disc, and any other option is not equivalent, therefore not a true backup to fit your needs.

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One other question
Jun 3, 2012 11:10AM PDT

In your cost analysis, you quote the following prices:

Dynex 10 Pack DVD Storage Case @ $9.99 or $0.99 per case

Blu Ray Storage Case Blue10 Pack @ $6.99 or $0.69 per case

Why couldn't I lower my DVD copy costs even more by using the Blu Ray storage case rather than the more expensive DVD cases?

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(NT) Hopefully, This Will Fill the Gaping Hole...
Jun 3, 2012 2:21PM PDT
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Why confuse the issue?
Jun 4, 2012 3:39AM PDT

You certainly could have simplified matters by just comparing the original cost to the cost of the copy, there was no need to add the two together.

Having said that, certainly choices are good, but if you are comparing prices, if you price out costs available to you for the DVD, why not use that cheaper case in your comparison for the Blu Ray, since the DVD case, (in name only) is about 50% more expensive and both are available?

I know paper sleeves are much cheaper, but once you are into a hard shell case, is there really that much difference in the amount of protection? Better protection is worth more, so I would shell out (if you'll pardon the unintended pun) more for a hard case than a paper sleeve if the disc is going to be carried around or shipped, while I do regularly use the paper version for discs I keep at home. They are easy enough to transfer to a hard case for the occasional trip.

As to the physical copy versus the digital copy, it depends on how and where you are going to play the movie (or TV show). If a digital backup is acceptable, it was probably also acceptable to purchase it in that format, so a digital backup makes sense.

However, if you bought the physical media for a reason, then a digital backup makes no sense if you can't later transfer it to a disc if your original disc is wrecked.

It isn't a backup if it can't replace the original for use as intended.

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copying DVD's
Jun 8, 2012 12:08PM PDT

I have made copies of all my DVD's. I don't give them to anyone, I just keep them in case something happens to the original discs. I have 2 large dogs and they have chewed up many of my movies, but I have the copies. I will continue to make copies. I don't think it's illegal, but I also don't care because I bought the movie. It is mine. I watch it and I don't show it for profit anywhere. If I can record tv shows, I can make copies of my movies.

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Great example in general
Jun 8, 2012 2:04PM PDT

The risk of providing cost information is that it is taken as absolute fact rather than generality. Also, in your example, you are really only addressing the attempt to make a "perfect copy," where I believe most people would be satisfied with a "good copy" or even a digital copy.

The primary reasons why people make copies of Blu-Ray and DVD disks are either 1) protection against damage of the original (e.g., kids) and 2) to have a convenient alternate way to view them (AppleTV, i-devices, etc.)

Frequently, copies made for these purposes are made of the movie only (to save space and allow the movie to fit on less-expensive media) and are often re-encoded, again to save space, particularly when the goal is storage on portable devices. Even when the goal is to burn another Blu-Ray or DVD, often the movie is re-encoded to fit on the intended media.

That said, one can purchase 25GB BD-R disks for less than $1.00 each at reputable online retailers (such as Meritline) in reasonable quantities, or even less than $2.00 each at major retailers like CostCo. 50GB disks are similarly available for a little more than $4.00 per disk in reasonable quantities. Likewise, the typical DVD case can be purchased in 100 packs for $10 at the aforementioned online site.

I mention this because anyone who is going to bother making physical disk backups is likely going to take two minutes to find a decent price. Now, with the prices I quoted, the $20-$25 Blu-Ray movie now has a kid-safe backup version for as little as $1.10 - $4.50. That is very worthwhile insurance for a family with members who may not be very careful about handling the originals.

And, of course, the cost of making a digital-only copy is essentially free.

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Reliability of Copies
Jun 8, 2012 3:39PM PDT

An item missed in addition to cost is one of readability of the copy over time. I have found that the digital registration on the dyes used in recordable and rewritable discs do not remain as readable over time as when recorded on the entire disc. No matter what the stated lifetime claims, this is only an estimate. A consumer reader can fail to read portions of a disc several years later so that it becomes necessary to make a fesh copy using a PC recorder since PC units tend to be more sensitive.

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It is legal to make backup copies of your DVDs & Blu-rays
Jun 5, 2012 1:08AM PDT

I make copies of my DVDs & Blu-rays using a program called DVD-Cloner 9. You might need one of the versions other than the basic one to do everything you want to do with the Blu-ray discs but the website explains what each version does.
I've been more than satisfied with the program and the copies it makes and I keep the .iso, instead of deleting it, in the temp directory after making a copy by checking the appropriate box in the tools section just in case the original and the copy are damaged.

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Why bother even BUYING in the the first place.
Jun 8, 2012 11:37AM PDT

How many movies do you REALLY want to see more than once? Here is the way to do this. Get Netflix, buy a large Hard drive, rip movies to the hard drive, watch them when you want, erase them and reuse the space afterwards. Want to see them again 4 years later, re-rent from Netflix or who ever, and repeat. If you have a Mac Disk Utility makes perfect copies as .cdrs and change them to .iso and bingo, a playable hard drive stored BR or DVD! There are plenty of rippers and players for windows. AnyDVD from Slysoft is a great start.

Again, why would anyone want to BUY a movie???

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A very good point!
Jun 9, 2012 11:09PM PDT

Hard copies, whether CDs or DVDs or printed books, are on their way out anyway.

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It's like the old
Jun 8, 2012 11:43AM PDT

failed gays in the military slogan
"Don't ask don't tell."
In that case it was ridiculous but in this case it makes perfect sense.

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Legal maybe doesn't matter if you're honest
Jun 8, 2012 12:01PM PDT

There are programs called Any DVD and Clone DVD available from an off shore company called Slysoft that allows you to copy DVD and Blu-Ray.
This software in NOT available for sale in the EU but it is availalble for purchase in the US.
This software is intended for you to make a back-up for yourself and yourself only. If it gets trashed by the kids you throw it away and make another. I guess you could even take the copy to your second home. The bottom line is you have to have the original on the shelf and the copy must remain in your possession at all times. If you sell or give away the original you must destroy the copy.
I can't really see the need for this unless you have kids, since they tend to abuse discs. Then you might want to hand them a copy and hide the original.
For that matter, if you load a CD into itunes you should have the disc on your shelf. Once you sell the CD you no longer have license to listen to the music that you loaded and it should be deleted.
I cannot see where the technicality of legality would ever come to haunt you if you employed this software in a responsible, honest fashion. No Jury would find you at fault. It's fair use.

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Making copies of DVD's
Jun 8, 2012 12:02PM PDT

If it is illegal how can I take my DVD's into a Wal-Mart and pay $2 and have them load them to the cloud for me? I think that rips off content providers, but Wal-mart must have a loophole.

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No loophole necessary
Jun 8, 2012 12:45PM PDT

Wal Mart has an agreement with the major movie studios to do this.

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Is It Legal To Prevent Me From Backing Up My Own CDs and DVD
Jun 8, 2012 12:02PM PDT

In civil law, any contract that has been gleaned by extortion cannot be held binding - with the usual caveat, ttkomk.
*
Similar protections have been extended in other situations. For example, although it is illegal to secretly record phone conversations, I have read that such conversations recorded by individuals to protect themselves against illegal acts (threats, etc) have been usable in court and that the individual making the recording was held harmless.
*
Remember that all this is anecdotal.
*
What this means to me is the following:
a) I have a legal right to make backup copies of my digital media, any of it.
b) If the company who owns the copyright will guarantee free replacement of my worn-out or damaged media, then I will cede them the right to prevent my copying the media myself.
c) If not, then any so-called anti-copying measures the company put into place violates my rights, and I feel I could (if necessary) defend myself in a court of law.

In fact, although no one has tried it, I would think there would be a marvellous class action possibility into going after these companies for their violating our rights. IMHO, only.

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The Audio Home Recording Act of 1992 makes it legal
Jun 8, 2012 12:10PM PDT

The Audio Home Recording Act of 1992 (AHRA) absolutely makes it legal for you to make backup copies of any music you own for you own private use. The Act includes blanket protection from infringement actions for private, non-commercial analog audio copying, and for digital audio copies made with digital audio recording devices.

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The way I understand it:
Jun 8, 2012 12:18PM PDT

The way I understand the it is that it IS legal to make backup copies for personal use. Also, from what I understand, it IS legal to use software to remove Copy Protection, but it IS NOT legal to make or sell said software.
I love how Hollywood tries to screw you out of something you rightfully own if it gets scratched or damaged.

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It was legal for movies, but not any more
Jun 8, 2012 12:45PM PDT

1. The Copyright Act allows Fair Use and back up copies
2. The Digital Millennium Copyright Act, an addition to the Copyright Act, makes decryption of an encrypted original illegal because you are not permitted to undo the decryption. So it is illegal to copy a DVD or a BD as both are covered by encryption.
3. There is plenty of software sold mostly by non-US entities that enable the copying. That is why these companies are non-US companies and are from countries that not honor the DMCA. This does not make this legal in the US.

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But a perfect copy includes encryption...
Jun 8, 2012 2:56PM PDT

IF I make a perfect binary copy of a DVD or BR that includes encryption, I have not decrypted the content....

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And to add to that...
Jun 9, 2012 3:41AM PDT

If you are using a modern DVD burner and it is fully updated - the DMCA enabled device will add more information to the encryption. The goal is not to deny usage, the goal is to gather information to see if content is legally used.

I'm not a fan of the MPAA, but I can understand the goals. The only problem is when the DRM frustrates the legal content holder so much that it forces them to go to TOR to get stripped content so it will at least work on their device. I can't blame anyone for doing that. Many of my friends own both a ripped copy and the original. They can't seem to get the legit copy to play on their flawed DMCA scheme; so they play the ripoffs just to get it to work.

I'm wondering when Hollywood and the music industry is going to wake up!

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Copying DVDs / blurays
Jun 8, 2012 12:45PM PDT

What's right, and what's legal are, sadly, not the same.

Copying intellectual property and distributing it, say, via torrents, is without question, wrong. Making an archival copy of something you purchased should not be. So, if the original you bought somehow goes bad, do you own the right to watch the movie, or just the right own the defective disc?

But what really troubles me, and this adds to the confusion, if when a movie gets released on DVD or Bluray, the motion picture distributors very often say in their advertising, "OWN IT NOW (on DVD or BluRay!)"

Well, if I purchased it, AND I OWN it, according to their adverts, then I can legally do what I please, yes? If I OWN the movie, then I can legally copy the movie and SELL it for a profit.

The distributors, in my opinion, are contributing to this confusion, and, dare I say, to even suggest that this copying is legal. If they want to protect their rights, and I do believe they should, they need to stop the deceptive advertising suggesting that one OWNS the intellectual property.