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General discussion

Is Defender good enough to protect my Windows 8 PC?

Jan 4, 2013 8:30AM PST
Question:

Is Microsoft Defender good enough to protect my Windows 8 computer?


I just got a new computer with Windows 8 installed which came bundled with Windows Defender -- Microsoft's version of antivirus and antispyware. Can you tell me if this program is sufficient enough to keep viruses and spyware out of my new PC? Or should I consider installing Norton Antivirus or some other trustworthy antivirus app as I did in my old computer? Please advise. Thank you.

--Submitted by: Norman D.

Discussion is locked

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Panda was useless
Jan 11, 2013 10:03AM PST

My office computer got a virus, and it made the fonts illegible. I had Panda's premium antivirus software installed. The virus went right past Panda...and never looked back. They told me they would send a disk to rid my computer of the virus. Needless to say, that disk never arrived either, and yes I did remind them numerous times. The lesson...do not trust your computer to Panda. I was on the phone with them half a dozen times, and wrote to them nearly as many times, but Panda apparently does not stand behind their products. They are dirt to me....useless...not only not helpful...but do not think they owe you any service when their vaunted product miserably fails. The only cure at the time was to reformat...and start over.

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You need as minimum...
Jan 12, 2013 1:19PM PST

at least one anti-virus and one anti-malware. By running Panda and Defender(Vista/Win7) concurrently, you may have not had trouble in a LONG time. I can't vouch for Panda, but Prevx was pretty good. I never use it to remove the virus, but because I run with limited rights, the virus was easily removed by CCleaner. They just sit in the temporary files until CCleaner waps them!

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Defender in Windows 8
Jan 11, 2013 5:01PM PST

I do not have Windows 8 yet , but I presume Microsoft Essentials will apply here same as for Windows 7.
According to me , Microsoft Essentials which include all necessary protections including Antivirus , antispyware , defender and Firewall all together for PC and is the best which can protect your PC

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It's better than nothing at all...
Jan 12, 2013 1:21PM PST
Plain
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No to Norton
Jan 11, 2013 11:09PM PST

Norton is at best 4th ranked by CNET with a horrid GUI that looks like the instrument panel of a 747 and full of totally meaningless words and undefined headers.

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RE: Very Short Answer:
Jan 19, 2013 3:31AM PST

I believe there are some java exploits involving code embedded in image files.

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Windows defender
Jan 5, 2013 2:05AM PST

I would still use antivrus software, like Bit Defender, just dont forget to turn off autopilot, while gaming as this will effect gaming performance.

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...it depends upon what you do and where you surf...
Jan 5, 2013 3:10AM PST

one of the numerous answers may be
"it depends upon what you do and where you surf"

for 95% of the normal activity with a zero day scenario
Windows Defender is fine, adequate

for the other 5%, there is the rest of the AV marketplace

MS has developed into a well rounded security solution
but there are times when kids test the bounds
when freinds and acquaintences send questionable materials
and so on

if you are at risk, invest in the extra protection

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We use Malwarebytes or Prevx at work and or at home

I read that Microsoft Defender only defeats about 60% of the Malware out there so having it on is better than having it off.

We use Malwarebytes and McAfee at home.
We use Malwarebytes and Prevx at work. We also use a Sonic Wall at work.

I have a co-worker who keeps viewing pictures at work and infecting my computer so Prevx keeps removing infections.

I believe you almost can't have enough virus checkers.

My advice is to be proactive rather than reactive. Nobody cares more about you than you. If someone is lazy at one anti-virus company, it is better to go with two or more anti-virus companies. That way, you are caring about yourself by being proactive and trusting your efforts of getting two or more rather than resting in what one company can do for you. Some checkers just work better and faster than others.

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Just be careful of software clashes
Jan 5, 2013 6:03AM PST

After reading your observation, that sounded like a fair deal, McAfee and prevx would catch most viri, but like any main stream software, there's always the chance of something slipping by...
And that's where I would personally use Malwarebytes as a scheduled/weekly scanner to mop up anything that managed to get through... though, I'm probably preaching to the choir for the next bit, I'm sure you remember to disable Mcafee/prevx when doing the malwarebytes scan, especially with how it can and will eat resources while doing that, having them clash could result in some frustrating issues, like the computer majorly slowing down, your computer crashing, and, as others have observed (and I agree with), its skipping files due to the aforementioned clash.
Gaisa

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With exceptions...
Jan 12, 2013 1:38PM PST

You can run Prevx concurrently with another AV, but that is because it is a cloud based companion solution; but I wouldn't recommend removing anything with it - or risk experiencing something at your own peril.

Chuck is at work and his gateway is known to provide streaming anti-virus already, so that is probably why they picked the light solution here. It actually sounds like a winning combo for an enterprise anyway. However - I'm sure his smart IT department also has him running with limited rights, so actually viruses have no affect unless they exploit a vulnerability that has not been patched. I'm sure his IT department has taken care of that on all OSs, and applications as well.

MBAM is now a kernel based solution and can smack the new malware pretty hard, so that is probably more likely what is going on with successful removals here. On a limited account you don't need to let Prevx remove anything; just run CCleaner after a Prevx intrusion alert and all will be OK. Prevx is notorious for hosing the operating system of any computer where it is allowed to remove a virus. That may be because the removal is being instituted at the same time another resident AV's real time protection is activating and attacking the virus. This wouldn't happen at Chuck's work place, so maybe that is why they are getting away with it.

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Answer to Windows Defender - I Like MS Security Essentials
Jan 5, 2013 5:23PM PST

I have previously used McAfee, Norton and Panda and Ad-Aware, did not mind the cost and I have been fortunately to note have any virus problems. I have just gotten a new laptop HP8560p EliteBook custom designed and Microsoft Security Essentials was installed by owner of the company I ordered the laptop from and so far have been very satisfied in addition saving money. I do not know whether this makes a difference but I do not wait for and update notice. When I turn on my laptop the first thing I do is do a manual update every time before I start work; that is my idiosyncrasy I also have the philosophy, "if in doubt; dont" or do not know who it is from, I don't click and ask first. I have Windows 7 Professional.

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Windows Defender is the best you can get...
Jan 5, 2013 9:59PM PST

Hi i have a laptop and was the same bought new from PC-WORLD with windows defender already all built-in,as i was going about my daily internet sites i hit a couple of viruses along the way and to my benefit the defender program automatically took the trojan or the hackers wares and blocked them completly. A small box slipped up from where my clock is in Windows - 7 pro to let me know that the Alert was a major threat and do you wish to '' Remove Threat '' in seconds,as this Defender is built by Microsoft it is downloadable from there site and to have it in my laptop i would never use any other Security as they either want loads of money or run out of updates as i have never changed Defender i just up-dated mines today and it works so good. I cannot see any problems on your Windows 8 as it's a Microsoft build so believe me when i say keep it in your new machine honestly. Cool

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Actually...
Jan 12, 2013 1:48PM PST

in my honey pot lab, the regular Internet Explorer 9 protections of Vista/Win7 stop 85% of the malware that attempt to download, so it may not be Defender that is doing it all. Windows 8 has even more protections in the Internet Explorer 10 browser, so Defender doesn't have near as much to do now - I'd bet.

I have notice that Defender on XP has improved a lot from where it was yesteryear; but on my Vista x64 box it is slower to the punch than my other solutions. They block the attack in the first place - so there is nothing to remove at all. Devil

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Experience with Microsoft Security Essentials
Jan 7, 2013 12:32AM PST

Norman,

From the Microsoft documentation I learn that built-in Win8 AV is essentially Microsoft Security Essentials.

Installed Microsoft Security Essentials on two computers some years ago, and not yet had any infection.

Having said that, installed Avast Free on two other computers, and not encountered an infection there, either.

Perhaps it helps that my ISP applies both anti-virus and anti-spam to whatever they send down the wires to me?

Whatever you decide on, back-up whatever is important to you, using a variety of media.

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One can never really know without checking...
Jan 12, 2013 1:53PM PST

with more than one solution, to assure there actually isn't a virus on the machine after all. In my experience using NT5 based Vista x64, the viruses never get past the UAC or the limited rights account client environment in the first place. They just lie dormant until I run CCleaner, and *poof* - they're gone! However this is not the case with malware.

Malware is actually the top threat to any place - work or home now. The new bugs can do quite a lot of mischief all on their own, with not one call on administrative rights to alert any HIPs that may be watching.

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Is Microsoft Defender good enough to protect my Windows 8 PC
Jan 7, 2013 10:19PM PST

I guess for most users Defender or Microsoft Security Essentials will catch almost 100% of malware. My experience in the IT field has shown that there are NO AV that are 100% save. False positives or very new virus/malware can disrupt any PC. I like to use 2 AV to doublr check. On my Windows boxes I mostly use MSE and once in a while I will do a complete scan using HouceCall from Trend Micro (http://housecall.trendmicro.com/). MSE so far has caught a few virus and House Call found nothing....but it doesn't cost much to scan your most precious assets.

Also if you download some file from the web you can scan it using Virus Total (https://www.virustotal.com/). This way you make sure that you are not causing any problem on your computer.

In a corporate environment I have someone do a daily check in the centralized AV console to make sure that every PC and servers are protectred. I also setup scripts that warns our helpdesk if a problem arises with the AV. ALso read various security bulletins so you know if a threat has been spotted.

Better be safe than sorry.....I've seen people loose a lot of stuff on their personnal computer. Check your AV regularly and you will be OK.

ZXJacques,

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TOTALLY!
Jan 12, 2013 1:54PM PST

(nt)

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Too early to tell
Jan 8, 2013 7:50PM PST

The simple answer is: It is too early to tell if Microsoft security is good enough to protect your new Windows 8 computer.
BUT...
Having personally serviced thousands of computers, I would have to say that NO SINGLE security product will ever offer complete protection. I have worked on infected computers that had virtually every brand on Security software installed on them and I can tell you that you are never 100% safe. I use different security on each of my own personal computers so that I can be familiar with the different brands to be able to better serve my customers and I cannot really say that I have any one overall favorite. The different brands of protection change from year to year and what was once a good product can quickly become a real dog (Just look at the up and down cycles of Norton and McAfee). I have used the Free products from AVG, Avast and Microsoft for years with fairly good results and I must say that the newer versions of Norton have been very good and do not hog computer resources like they once did. I cannot really say that Windows 8 with the New version of Microsoft Defender and Smart Screen is any good or not. It just has not been out long enough. Many users believe that you are better off with the lesser known brands because it might make sense that virus writers would optimize their infections to get through the major Antivirus software brands first before paying any attention to the minor brands.

There are many contributing factors as to why a computer gets infected other than the type of security software that you have installed, the most obvious is your Internet surfing habits. If you are someone that surfs all over the internet researching all kinds of strange topics and aimlessly clicking on links then you will be a lot more likely to get infected than someone who simply uses the Internet to read email and perform some banking transactions. I had a client a few years ago who was writing a book on Maralyn Monroe and Google searching for all kinds of topics such as "Famous Blonds" and "Bucksome Blonds" and he could not figure out why his computer was getting infected almost every other day or two.

Another major factor is which operating system you have. Windows XP is far more likely to get infected than Windows 7. I am guessing or at least hoping Windows 8 is even better, but the jury is still out on that. Linux and Mac OSX are the least likely to get infected but this could start to change as time goes on. Even though I have had very good luck with Microsoft Security Essential (MSE) as a whole, I have had many Windows XP computers with MSE installed come in with really bad infections. I have not had the opportunity to run across any infected Windows 8 computers as yet. But that is not unusual for a new operating system, it took awhile before I saw any infected Windows 7 computer when it first came out.

In the end, Full Security is not a single product but rather a combination of security measures that will only reduce the odds that you will pick up an infection. NOTHING is ever 100%!!!

Here are just a few other factors:

Your Internet Connection - A computer that is directly connected to the Cable Modem is less secure than one that connects through a router. A really good router with a hardware firewall is even better.
Updates - A computer running outdated software and utilities is more likely to get infected.
Microsoft, Apple, Sun and Adobe don't publish updates just for the fun of it. In many cases, they are providing updates to patch a security vulnerability to try to keep you protected. So when you see that Java or Adobe update pop up, don't just ignore them. It is important to always install updates regardless of whether you have a Mac or a PC.

Surfing Habits - I know it is obvious but I have to mention it again. If anyone in the house is surfing for Porn then it is almost guaranteed that you will get infected. Surfing and click on everything in sight is only going to increase your odds of getting infected. Downloading Free video and music from suspicious websites is another big risk and can even be a potential problem when clicking on these type of links in Facebook and other social sites. Simply mistyping the name of common websites can also lead you directly to infected areas. The Bad guys often count on people and kids misspelling websites.

Email and Links - Avoid clicking on links in any email even if you know the person that it is coming from. If you must click on a link, hover your mouse over the link first to reveal the real destination of the link to be sure it is pointing to where you really want to go.
Popup Warnings - Pay close attention to pop up warnings that come up on your screen. Many people get infected because they simply clicked on YES before reading what it was they were saying yes to. Even installing updates like Java and Adobe Flash can often come with unwanted Toolbars and programs that you may not want. Always look for the check boxes to see what they might be including with the update.
When in Doubt, Start Over - If you do end up at a questionable website and you are receiving pop ups and questions that you do not understand. DO NOT CLICK ON ANYTHING... Simply close your browser and start over. Even clicking on "No Thank You" or the "X" on some dialog boxes will allow an infection to install.

GENERAL RECOMMENDATIONS
1. Install only ONE realtime security software such as Windows Defender (Windows 8 Only), Security Essentials, Norton, McAfee, Kaspersky, Trend Micro, Eset, Avira, AVG or Avast (sorry, I know there are other brands too). In this case, 2 is NOT better than 1. Having Multiple security products installed and running at the same time can fight each other, slow down your computer and even cause your computer to crash and freeze. Note: For those of you that have Comcast Internet, they offer Norton Security free to all their subscribers. Some people think that it is automatic but that is not true and you must actually download and install it.

2. If the security product you install does not include a firewall, then install a separate Firewall such as Comodo or ZoneAlarm. Be very careful to only install the firewall and not a total protection version that might include another antivirus program. Again it is important that you have only one antivirus and one Firewall installed and running at the same time.

3. Install and scan once per month with at least one other standalone malware scanner such as Malwarebytes, RogueKiller or HitMan Pro. Do not install the full paid versions of these or install any additional realtime scanners. You only want to scan with the manual scanner and you do not want to install anything that is going to be running in the background. Always download the latest version before scanning. Many times these scanners will find problems that your full time scanner may have missed.

4. Install and scan once per month with a separate rootkit scanner such as Tdsskiller from Kaspersky and/or NPE (Norton Power Eraser) from Symantec. Always download the latest version before scanning. I have working on many computers that come up clean with regular virus scans only to find that they have been infected with a rootkit for a long time that was never found by their regular virus scans.

5. Check for and install any and all updates to Windows, Microsoft Office, Java, Adobe Acrobat and Adobe Flash. To avoid problems with updates I always recommend rebooting your computer BEFORE and AFTER installing updates. This is not mandatory but will reduce your chances of problems.

6. Run a good general file cleaner monthly such as CCleaner, ATF Cleaner or even Microsoft's built-in Disk clean or remove junk and temporary files. Some full security Suites like Norton 360 or Norton that is provided by Comcast for FREE will do this for you automatically.

7. Avoid using any Registry Scanners/Optimizers, many can do more damage than good especially if you do not know exactly what you are doing.

8. And I always have to mention Backup, Backup and Backup again. If you do end up with a bad infection, having a good, solid backup with make life a lot easier.

NOTE: I am sure many of you may be confused about the difference between the new Windows Defender with Smart Screen in Windows 8 and the OLD Windows Defender, Microsoft Security Essentials and Windows Live OneCare. I don't know why but Microsoft seems to like to play with our minds. You know, just like all the versions of Microsoft email programs: Outlook Express, Outlook, Entourage, Windows Mail and Windows Live Mail. Sorry but you are on your own here, this discussion is for another time.

addendum:
Sorry, I just noticed that I forgot to mention that using an alternate DNS service can also help not only to protect your family from pornographic website but also from phishing sites. I have setup Family Shield from OpenDNS for many clients and it has worked very well. It is best to set it up on your router so that every device in your house is protected. Note: This in not virus protection but it does block all your computers from accessing many of the sites that contain porn and many of them are infected sites or lead to infected links

Dana
Wayland Computer

Note: This post was edited by its original author to combine addition information from second post to original. on 01/11/2013 at 11:10 AM PT

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One other note
Jan 10, 2013 7:54PM PST

Sorry, I just noticed that I forgot to mention that using an alternate DNS service can also help not only to protect your family from pornographic website but also from phishing sites. I have setup Family Shield from OpenDNS for many clients and it has worked very well. It is best to set it up on your router so that every device in your house is protected. Note: This in not virus protection but it does block all your computers from accessing many of the sites that contain porn and many of them are infected sites or lead to infected links.

Dana

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Best answer yet Waytron...
Jan 12, 2013 2:02PM PST

But don't you always deliver? Happy

I am surprised about Smart Screen though. As soon as I got IE9 it asked to enable smart screen, and I assumed it was part of the browser. I had Defender turned off(disabled) at that time, because I was still using Adaware with the malware part of AdWatch enabled, and I thought anymore might be overkill. However I now use Defender on my Vista x64 machine and have long gave up on Lavasoft! Sad

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Is Defender good enough?
Jan 11, 2013 10:50AM PST

Is Defender good enough? I doubt it. Windows 8 hasn't been out long, but Defender has been around for awhile. I have never been impressed with defender. As with allot of people, the PC has been a part of my daily life for over 20 years. The last 15 years, I have dealt with many different virus protection software. One which has evolved into a very trustworthy program is AVG. Not the free version, but the purchased version. I have tried everything out there and AVG beats them all. This of course is my opinion only, based on my experiences.

Thanks,


Craig Johnston

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very good advise but
Jan 11, 2013 2:28PM PST

You should also add that a router can be hacked easily if it has Wi-Fi Protected Setup enabled (WPS) turned on. Even turned off it doesn't mean that it is actually turned off. The only way to tell is to get a hacker program to test it on your system to make sure that you can't crack your computer's router. Anyone that can hack the W{PS can get your router password and access your wifi .

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No self respecting IT SEC manager would buy into WPS...
Jan 12, 2013 2:06PM PST

So that is rather redundant. I'm glad you mention that though as home users everywhere should be aware of that. It doesn't even take an experienced script kiddie to defeat a WPS router!!!

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Windows Defender etc., plus vigilance.
Jan 11, 2013 6:12PM PST

I have Windows 7 and after my subscription to Norton ran out decided to use the freebie. I got caught once when someone hacked into my Mailbox and took all my addresses, stressful. That resolved I backed the Defender up with Anti-Malwarebytes which upon installation immediately picked up rogues over 2 days, since then nothing.

However, I completely agreee that safety is down to the user. When I was "hacked" which was very scary I immediately changed all my passwords and made all of them so difficult it took me some time to remember when I needed them, that together with vigilance such as avoiding suspicious emails, being very careful which sites you visit and immediately signing out of my own personal pages when I am leaving them and, in my case, running Malware immediately if I imadvertently hit a site I do not like the look of. This policy can be tedious, but it becomes a habit after sticking with it over a period of time. So far then with Defender, Anti Malwarebytes and vigilance I have, for the past year, had no bug problems of any description.

Ipar13

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Keyloggers can still pick up your passwords...
Jan 12, 2013 2:18PM PST

and in fact many malware can now abscond with them without keylogging. It is better to use an encrypted password manager if you want to prevent that in the future. I like LastPass, some people swear by RoboForm; YMMV. If you are banking, the bugs can now simply ride the SSL session into your bank site when you log on. Only Trusteer's Rapport is capable of stopping that - it also stops keylogging and screen capture even if the computer is still infected! This has been the only anti-keylogger that has passed all my AKLT tests!

I am not a shill for Trusteer - besides it is free from eBay or other merchants that pay for it for their customer safety.

Todays malware run under the radar, and the only alert you may get about their activity is from WinPatrol when it barks about the startup folder injection attack.

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Very useful Thanks.
Jan 11, 2013 7:57PM PST

I have skimmed through members' remarks, which demonstrate the concern and the confusion. Having used AVG, McAffey, & al. When I bought Windows 7 Home premium with a new computer, I was recommended Webroot, which seems to have been effective. The world of viruses is a ral jungle!

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Webroot may be OK now, but...
Jan 12, 2013 2:21PM PST

every time I have tested it in the past, it has bad system instability issues; and it scores poorly with independent testing labs. I haven't tested in years now. When it starts improving, I may return.

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Issues with Webroot, Kaspersky and TrendMicro
Jan 13, 2013 1:26AM PST

This is simply my observations in the past year or so and is not based on any scientific tests, but I have had the most problems with Webroot, Kaspersky and TrendMicro when it comes to conflicts and incompatibilities with other software such as certain games, some All-In-one printer installations and some of the more complex applications. I have also run into several occasions where Webroot has caused major slow downs. These observations were very similar to the way Norton was prior to their complete rewrite in 2009.

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Thanks waytron...
Jan 13, 2013 3:02AM PST

I'm always willing to go back to visit an old favorite and give it a chance. I really appreciate your input here! Happy