IS Addiction a Disease?

oh... so now your taking his word as factual?

I take no politician at their word. I thought maybe he might have had his doctor make a statement for him. If he or his lawyer said this... well... how can you trust a drunks word?

HE has publically announced his diagnosis of bipolar disorder. This was previously and NOT when he was in trouble. Again, would help if you educated yourself before starting in on the game playing you seem to enjoy so.

Grim, think it thru. If it was a drug reaction and he was just taken home, he could have died, and somebody would have been "up the creek". The reports say that 2 sergeants showed up, sent the officers away and took him home. Wht did they take the chance of throwing their careers away? It's puzzling for one to take such a chance, but having two take such a chance makes me wonder if something else was in play. Were those sergeants at the station before they came to the site of the accident? If so, I'd like to see the log of the station's telephone calls before they left.

... if he took his PRESCRIBED dose of Ambien and Phenergan, why is he saying he "needs help" and is RE-entering rehab for an addiction to PAINKILLERS? Hello!

not enough love left to share?

sorry, couldn't resist it...

... is this Kennedy's first, second or even third stint in rehab?

First, second, or third run in with the law?

Was he PRESCRIBED pain killers? Haven't heard any assertion that he was.

So given that due to what he's basically describing as a bad reaction to Ambien and Phenerergan he has decided he ''needs help'' for an addiction to pain killers .......

Kennedy is exactly the kind of person that deserves to be ranted about. Gotten away with all sorts of stuff for far too long. He's not a kid anymore. And he's in the Congress passing laws the rest of us have to abide by. If he had an ounce of integrity he would resign. He clearly has a problem. I don't have much sympathy for the notion of addiction as a ''chronic disease''. Sorry, it is a chronic failing. He needs to take his OWN mental illness seriously. Starting with staying out of bars entirely.

He's lucky he didn't kill himself or another person not once but TWICE in the past MONTH. This goes well beyond coddling his addiction. He is a danger to society!

But I've seen too many "functional" drunks who didn't wreck twice in a month... but got away with it for years (with the knowledge of family, friends, and coworkers)... until they did hurt someone. I personally knew someone like this and told them if I saw them drunk one more time and on the road I would call the cops myself. Guess what? My dad quit talking to me soon after (no joke).

**** Chenney was arrested twice in his 20's for DUI. GW in his 30's. You and everyone who is a Rush fan fought tooth and nail to say that he hadn't been convicted for his run in with the law (a technicality whether you want to admit it or not). Kennedy is a guy who most likely has a problem but without a blood level it seems like many are convicting him without proof.

Listen, I'm not saying the guy is innocent. I think he needs treatment and hopefully this time he will turn around. Lets just not get bent out of shape over this guy just because he is a Kennedy.

Now you drag Cheney and Bush into this? LOL You are too funny.

You don't want to see the facts in Rush's case. I can't help you. The prosecutor admitted in court the last time they had no evidence of a crime w/o interviewing his doctors. The courts put a stop to that. End of story. He wasn't slamming into barricades at 3am with red, watery eyes, slurred speech and apparently unstable on his feet.

Following this episode, he decided he again needs help for an addiction to pain killers. Hmmmmmm....

What was he taking pain killers for that he got addicted? Still waiting...

He's in the government, and has to listen to Republicans?

On Rush, NO evidence, and he ''agrees to conditions''

He's dumber than you think I am.

but there wasn't a "stupid post alert" button

You call driving a ton plus piece of metal down the wrong lane of a road at high speed without lights on at 3am fun?

Rush took painkillers for their intended purposes. After that he was addicted. He has been clean for over two years now.

Why was Kennedy taking them? Were they prescribed? He just got rehab five months ago. Seems he has a far more serious problem. I hope he defeats it. But right now my concerns are more for the safety of the public.

If you're talking about Rush, seems to me he got a world of haasle and legal expense; hardly a "pass".

You Said Alcoholism runs in families, as one can see from the Kennedy clan, so there must be something genetic and neurochemical going on.
Reasonable assumption forgetting that there are environmental influences which may disguise themselves as genetic predisposition. If my father drinks to let off the stresses of the day I may too when I grow up, I may not too. Neither proves a genetic influence is at play nor does it prove that I do this because this is what I was taught to do, In my mind the jury is still out on predisposition due to genetics.

Don Erickson
Mr. California Republican

... some learn by example, some go 180 the opposite way. One of my childhood friends' father was a mega chain smoker -- Camel unfiltered, at least two packs a day. It disgusted her, so when the time came for the peer pressure to be cool to smoke, she just wasn't even tempted. My grandfather was an alcoholic. My dad, perhaps because he took up some of the duties my grandfather ignored, rarely drinks. I've gone through phases in my life where I've drank a lot, but I can't say I've EVER craved a drink. I've had the ''I need a drink!'' thought, but it is quite different. I have periodically abstained from alcohol for long periods of time just to make sure I'm not developing some dependency. This is mostly a precaution just in case there really is something to this genetic stuff, or to prove to myself that I'm not fooling me. Based on how easy it is for me not to drink, I tend to think that this stuff is mostly bunk. It would be a nice excuse IF I developed an alcohol dependency to blame my genes and not take responsibility for my actions.

I note Kennedy's words were of ''continuing recovery''. I can't help but feel that being told by the *experts* that you are never cured of your chronic disease contributes to the ''chronic'' problems some have with substance abuse.

Evie

of no addiction.

I have periodically abstained from alcohol for long periods of time just to make sure I'm not developing some dependency.

While not accusing you of anything at all, I would point out that there seems to be a group that can either not drink, or abuse drinking. Binge drinkers often go all week without anything, then drink almost to passing out on the weenend. Or for some it's like once a month. I have known people that might only drink at big celebrations (weddings, graduation parties, etc), but they always got drunk then.

After all, by all I hear, most recovering alcohols can't have one drink. They may do fine without, but even one drink and they'll probably have another, and another, and another.

I had a time in my life I was exactly like that. I would drink little or most of the time nothing during the week, then during a few days off, on at least one day, I'd drink so much I didn't even leave the house. (Actually it's a very good thing I didn't.) Now I often do have one drink or two. But even now, if I get a glass of wine or a beer watching a movie on TV, I'll tend to get another when it's empty as long as I'm watching the show. I conciously don't, but the almost subconcious instinct to have another is there.

It would be a nice excuse IF I developed an alcohol dependency to blame my genes and not take responsibility for my actions.

Personally, I'd consider it the genetic factor a contributor, not an absolute determiner, so some responsibitlity still exists. As I recall from conversations with recovering alcohols, the prevalent attitude is you'll never get over it until you do take responsibility for your condition.

I can't help but feel that being told by the *experts* that you are never cured of your chronic disease contributes to the ''chronic'' problems some have with substance abuse.

Interesting suggestion. And maybe more positive reinforcement might help recovering addicts. But since the ones I've talked to personally agree that they always have to fight the urge, it seems likely that its a warning to be viligant rather than an excuse for failure.

I know after 19+ years of quitting cigarettes, rarely do I have the urge for a cigarette, but occasionally it still happens. And it was a gradually decrease in desire, not just stop and not bother me. And I believe from seeing others around me as well as the time in my life I drank way too much that an alcohol dependancy is much more difficult to kick completely in the long run than nicotine. Thankfully, I never got as dependant on alcohol as I did nicotine. But I do question if someone dependant on alcholol or nicotine very completely eliminates the desire for them, much less other truly more addictive substances.


Roger

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

I was a designated driver back in the days before there were such. That was in my more active days of partying. On nights I was the driver, I would have one or two drinks at the beginning of the night, then switch to non-alcoholic. This required no guargantuan feat of discipline except for refusing any drink that might be bought for me (enticing to any cash strapped college student!).

I don't drink to get blasted. Even in my wildest party days, the notion of drinking myself into oblivion was never appealing to me. The few times that's happened its been when I haven't poured my own drinks (or done shots/played drinking games when back in college -- don't do those anymore!). You don't taste alcohol as much once you've had a few Open bars at Ukie weddings when the hubby has tipped the bartender generously on the first round are killer

I'm only postulating here, but could it be that SOME recovering alcoholics can't only have one drink be because some ''expert'' told them that was so? If you had gone to get outside help for the prior drinking you've described, they would have branded you an alcoholic and told you that you can't drink ever again. That's the disease model -- you have a chronic disease, must eliminate the trigger, would be unable to control the urge to abuse again. And yet, you currently can have a couple of drinks and can ''consciously not'' continue drinking. Probably because nobody told you that you couldn't. That's all that I'm saying.


Evie

I just know that while I could drink one dring, there was a period in my life when I was more likely to drink 0 or over half a dozen, rarely 1-2.

Now I often drink 1-2, as well as often none, and occasionally 3 or 4

But I was also referring to what some told me of their experience with alcohol abuse. And of my own experience with nicotine, too easy to slip backwards.

Actually, having nicotine occasionally is harder perhaps for me than occasionaly drinks. Anyway, I just dropped it completely. Originally after quitting smoking cigarettes, I would very occasionally have a cigar, the first time was (as you might guess) one given me when someone had a baby. Then I was buying one once a week, then every couple of days. When I started to buy a pack instead of one because it was cheaper and then I could have one after supper every evening, I decided that occasional didn't work. At least not for me.

My alcohol use once was too high, and basically I went over 6 months with nothing before I began drinking a bit again. I was never to the point I had alcohol for breakfast, but there was a point there was rarely a day I didn't have 3 or 4 drinks after work. Now it's normally one or two or none.

I told my doc I was going to start to drink a bottle of red wine a day to raise my good cloestral numbers. I was kidding, but you should seen the look on his face. I have switched to red wine mostly when I do have a drink or two now on the notion it is reputed to be slightly more beneficial in general than other alcohol in small quanities for genereal health. Though honestly I'd probably prefer a staight whiskey on ice, or a smooth brandy. Been a long time since I had Remy Martin VSOP cognac, can't afford it even once a year anymore at it's prices.

Had some brandy by Korbel I bought in California last year. 3 different 'grades' in a special pack from the Korbel winery/distillery shop. That was some pretty good brandy.

Recently while visiting my wife's SIL in Oregon, she found an old bottle of red wine someone gave her (she drinks white and blush, rarely if ever red). It was GOOD. Can't remember the name, it was a 1998 French red wine. The cork was almost gone, but it was still the best wine I think I've every had. Now that I could have drank a bottle easy. I suspect it was actually a rather pricy gift.

Normally I'm afraid when I do drink, it's the el cheapo stuff. It's hard to find even drinkable red wines under $10 a bottle now (LOL, ok, so I'm a tightwad about spending on wine anyway). Heck it was hard to get decent red wine for $10 a bottle back in the '80's, much less now 25 years later.


Roger

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

... about this whole addiction/disease thing. And after our discussion I think I've got it a bit more focused.

It seems that anyone that overuses/abuses any substance is automatically labeled an addict, and there's enough homogeneity among ''expert's'' mindsets that addiction is a disease, that ergo substance abusers have a disease. I feel for folks like Darryl Strawberry and Robert Downey Jr. (and many, MANY, more that struggle in anonymity), but I just can't get my head around the idea that they have a chronic disease that's no different than any other disease. Not every abuser becomes an addict (or just about my entire college freshman class would be in permanent "recovery") and most actually "grow out" of more liberal usage as their life responsibilities mount. If I were to take up drinking like I did back then it would be because of personal failing that's for sure!

I'm especially offended by what appears to be the merging of addiction with the mental health field. There's no doubt that those with certain mental illnesses can have a higher propensity to self-medicate with other substances that are available. BUT when the underlying illness is treated, there is no need to still abuse other substances, and, frankly, those that still do are exhibiting symptoms of self-destructive behavior, not some disease of addiction.

Ah well, thanks for the conversation on this. It's been interesting.

BTW, I'm a fruity vodka and clear soda gal these days which is a holdover from my Invisalign days. I have to watch it because after one drink the vodka is difficult to taste. I have learned the hard way not to let my hubby make my drinks I'm pretty good when I know how much liquor is in a drink, but vodka is what will catch me if I'm not careful. Other liquor I have more of a nose for even if I've already had a few -- that's why I drink rum at Ukie weddings so that at least I can try to judge how much is in that drink!

For decent tasting ''cheap'' red wine, you might want to try the Austrailian Shiraz. They are pretty good. I'm partial to Mad Fish but that's about $15/bottle. The Yellow Tails OTOH are about half that price and, although not quite as good, they're not bad at all!

Evie

to excuse their behavior when the spotlight shines on them.

But I rather doubt all are is all.

Thanks for the recommendation, seems I had one bottle and it was ok. I'll have to check it out a bit more anyway.


Roger

click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

... I don't mean to imply that all addicts are the same either. I beleive addiction is real and at least deserve one time to get clean before being judged -- we ALL have our mistakes of youth after all. But I do have a problem with addicts being described as courageous etc.

I will remain, however, more sympathetic to the person who becomes addicted to a drug prescribed to them for pain relief than to the heroin addict. That goes for that person being Rush Limbaugh or Al Franken. I'm just not sure I'm buying at this point that Kennedy's painkiller addiction was born of back pain -- it's too new and convenient a revelation when he's had other moments to come forth (and where he has and has blamed the addiction on mental illness) or even blame his back surgery of 18 years ago.

Evie

I like to cook. Wow, there must be a gene for cooking! Any genetic influence for alcoholism will be negligible. Now, there might a genetic influence for stupidity, which would apply to alcoholism, but thats about it.

... those that get abused as children are more likely to abuse as adults -- is there an abuse gene? The children of divorced parents are more likely to divorce themselves -- is there a genetic predisposition to failure in marriage?

As to the neurological changes that occur when one is addicted, why are these the ONLY changes in the brain some believe to be irreversible? There's a ton of evidence of neurological changes in the brains of anorexics, but that's a disease that doesn't even exist in large sectors of the population. Learned behavior that can be unlearned. Our brains are not static entities, new neural pathways are constantly being formed and strengthened with use.

As such, if addiction is a disease, it is acute and not chronic. There's no reason to believe that we can change our brain chemistries when developing a dependency on a substance but not change them back substituting more appropriate responses to our "triggers".

Evie

... well ... according to the genetic theories.

you been reading Duckman's diary??