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International Test?

by dirtyrich / September 30, 2004 12:54 PM PDT

So, to act pre-emptively to protect our nation, Kerry believes that we need to seek approval for our action from a significant number of other countries? Seems to me like what he said, or at least Bush did a good job of jabbing at him for it.
I do believe (well, hope, in case we do get stuck with him for 4 years), that he was merely stating that we should enthusiastically seek assistance and approval from other nations for the purpose of not straining diplomatic relations. To me that seems a little more logical, although I personally disagree with it also. Simply because, it also puts limits on the US's ability to use force to protect itself in such a manner that there is little room for variation. Policies like that have a tendency to have a long term affect across administrations, and while I believe it is smart to maintain good relations with other nations through times of crisis, it should not be an established policy as it would limit us in times where the priority is action and not diplomacy.

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Re: International Test?
by Dan McC / September 30, 2004 11:20 PM PDT
In reply to: International Test?
So, to act pre-emptively to protect our nation, Kerry believes that we need to seek approval for our action from a significant number of other countries?

As a matter of fact, he said exactly the opposite a couple of times.

I believe America is safest and strongest when we are leading the world and we are leading strong alliances.

I'll never give a veto to any country over our security. But I also know how to lead those alliances.


Dan
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Re: International Test?
by Mark5019 / October 1, 2004 12:02 AM PDT

yup he does ask the swift boats about his brave leadership.

his past actions or lack of makes you wonder.
we get attacked again will he have the balls to fight the fight or will he talk and waffle.

i rather have a fighter that sticks it out not get a scratch and run away

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Re: International Test?
by Dan McC / October 1, 2004 12:20 AM PDT

At that time the only thing bush would stick out was his tongue to get the olive from his martini. It wasn't really a fight, but there you have it.

Dan

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Re: International Test?
by Mark5019 / October 1, 2004 1:59 AM PDT

well if your weak kneed kerry gets in the inocents over there wont be the only dead americans will be over here to

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Re: International Test?
by Dan McC / October 1, 2004 2:58 AM PDT

Could you rephrase that. I'm not clear on what you meant.

Thanks.

Dan

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(NT) (NT) dan your not stupid dont try to act it
by Mark5019 / October 1, 2004 8:02 AM PDT
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Nor am I a mind reader
by Dan McC / October 1, 2004 12:24 PM PDT

I'm trying to understand, Mark. That's not a call for insults.

Rephrase it if you wish, or don't. Just remember that I'm trying to figure out what you are trying to say to me. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's not. But I still try. And I try without insulting you.

Thanks,

Dan

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The record shows that...
by Edward ODaniel / October 1, 2004 7:00 AM PDT

Bush requested TWICE to be part of the "Palace Guard" but was turned down in favor of more experienced pilots and then because the F102 was being phased out.

Where were you hiding?

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Re: The record shows that...
by Dan McC / October 1, 2004 7:17 AM PDT

Third grade, I believe.

Dan

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Excuses, excuses...
by Edward ODaniel / October 1, 2004 7:35 AM PDT

Where were you hiding for Panama, Grenada, Somalia?

Nevermind, as the question is rhetorical. You were busy asking "What can this country do for me?".

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Allies and Kerry
by TONI H / October 1, 2004 12:06 AM PDT

We won't have many left if he keeps insulting all those countries he claims he knows how to lead.

TONI

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Bush made that point too...
by Edward ODaniel / October 1, 2004 7:31 AM PDT
In reply to: Allies and Kerry
BUSH: That's totally absurd. Of course, the U.N. was invited in. And we support the U.N. efforts there. They pulled out after Sergio de Mello got killed. But they're now back in helping with elections.

My opponent says we didn't have any allies in this war. What's he say to Tony Blair? What's he say to Alexander Kwasniewski of Poland? You can't expect to build an alliance when you denigrate the contributions of those who are serving side by side with American troops in Iraq.

Plus, he says the cornerstone of his plan to succeed in Iraq is to call upon nations to serve. So what's the message going to be: "Please join us in Iraq. We're a grand diversion. Join us for a war that is the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time?"

I know how these people think. I deal with them all the time. I sit down with the world leaders frequently and talk to them on the phone frequently. They're not going to follow somebody who says, "This is the wrong war at the wrong place at the wrong time."



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Yep, he flip flipped there...
by Edward ODaniel / October 1, 2004 6:55 AM PDT

because earlier he had said "But if and when you do it, Jim, you have to do it in a way that passes the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people understand fully why you're doing what you're doing and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons.

This "global test" position seems to be the one he likes best as he has stated before that only the UN can legitimize taking action.

This subject is where Kerry earned the sobriquet "Internationalist".

His "leading alliances" is how he managed to get his picture into Vietnam's Remrerance Museum in it's "Heroes of the Revolution" room.

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Only if you redefine flip
by Dan McC / October 1, 2004 7:19 AM PDT

The two statements are not exclusive of each other.

Dan

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No need to...
by Edward ODaniel / October 1, 2004 7:46 AM PDT

because they are indeed opposed positions. He said he would never give a veto to any country over our security but his global test requirement does just that.

John "the Internationalist" Kerry has made his position that only UN approval can make preemptive strikes legitimate.

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Only a need to read
by Dan McC / October 1, 2004 7:53 AM PDT
In reply to: No need to...

Reread it a few times till you understand it.

Dan

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Kerry is more concerned about
by Dragon / October 1, 2004 11:10 AM PDT
In reply to: Only a need to read

what other countries think than about making our own decisions regardless of world opinion. Since world opinion is pretty much set in concrete, I think his attitude could do us harm.

That opinion has bled over to other areas, too, such as the world court... I agree 100% with Bush's thinking on that idea.

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Ridiculous
by Dan McC / October 1, 2004 12:29 PM PDT

Kerry has said just the opposite.

If world opinion is set in concrete, how has it turned so quickly and dramatically against bush since he started his little adventure into Iraq?

Dan

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(NT) (NT) two words -- media influence
by Edward ODaniel / October 2, 2004 3:10 AM PDT
In reply to: Ridiculous
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Then you agree with me.
by Dan McC / October 4, 2004 5:40 AM PDT

World opinion is not set in concrete.

Dan

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The same way the liberals in the US did.
by Dragon / October 2, 2004 1:23 PM PDT
In reply to: Ridiculous

The rest of the world tends to be somewhat liberal. Even then we have a Democrat for president they arent happy, because they dont go far enough to the left. ...Which is why I dont worry too much about what the rest of the world has to say.

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So you agree with me.
by Dan McC / October 4, 2004 5:41 AM PDT

World opinion is not set in concrete.

Dan

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Re: So you agree with me.
by Dragon / October 4, 2004 6:32 AM PDT
In reply to: So you agree with me.

Only their opinion of what president we have, changes. Their liberal attitudes and beliefs are indeed set in concrete.

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Re: No need to...
by David Evans / October 1, 2004 8:01 AM PDT
In reply to: No need to...

> John "the Internationalist" Kerry has made his position that only UN approval can make preemptive strikes legitimate.

And here's where he said it:

Old Crimson Interview Reveals A More Radical John Kerry
The Crimson reported Kerry called for U.N. control of troops in 1970


?I?m an internationalist,? Kerry told The Crimson in 1970. ?I?d like to see our troops dispersed through the world only at the directive of the United Nations.?

It's typical of leftists and trolls (all of whom support Kerry) to want to surrender US sovereignty.

DE

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To you this is breaking news
by Dan McC / October 1, 2004 12:31 PM PDT
In reply to: Re: No need to...

To anyone who thinks about these things it is as relevent as 30 year old weather reports.

Dan

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To you it is imperative to ignore...
by Edward ODaniel / October 2, 2004 3:13 AM PDT

the simple fact that he, Kerry, has said the same thing many times over the years and did so again during the debate with his "global test" remark.

You must really like hats.

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(NT) (NT) It demonstrates that he is consistent on one thing.
by Evie / October 2, 2004 1:11 PM PDT
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Yes, he's been known to flip flop in the same sentence.
by Kiddpeat / October 1, 2004 8:07 AM PDT

He does have trouble keeping track of what he's said in the past; like 2 seconds ago.

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Re: International Test?
by Mac McMullen / October 1, 2004 12:36 AM PDT
In reply to: International Test?

His statement wherein he used that term was so convuluted
and muddled, it is left to the individual to assess what
he might have meant.

Shades of hanging shad, or whatever.

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Re: International Test?
by Dan McC / October 1, 2004 1:11 AM PDT

This statement?

KERRY: The president always has the right, and always has had the right, for preemptive strike. That was a great doctrine throughout the Cold War. And it was always one of the things we argued about with respect to arms control.

No president, through all of American history, has ever ceded, and nor would I, the right to preempt in any way necessary to protect the United States of America.


Seems pretty clear.

Dan

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