Thank you for being a valued part of the CNET community. As of December 1, 2020, the forums are in read-only format. In early 2021, CNET Forums will no longer be available. We are grateful for the participation and advice you have provided to one another over the years.

Thanks,

CNET Support

General discussion

Interesting documentary about America and the Porn industry...

Feb 5, 2004 3:12PM PST

Discussion is locked

- Collapse -
Capitalism vs Communism part 2.
Feb 6, 2004 1:36PM PST

Now, when it comes to freedom, there is no doubt that the USA has been more successful than any Communist country. But, I wouldn't say that Capitalism has been more successful; South Africa under Botha was a Capitalist state, Chile under Pinochet was a Capitalist state. Bolivia under Banzer was a Capitalist state. Nicaragua under Somoza was a Capitalist state. Spain under Franco was a Capitalist state... I could go on and on...

"Since capitalism involves freedom, the freedom can be misused, but that doesn't condemn the concept. - Kiddpeat

Please see my comments above.

- Collapse -
Re:Capitalism vs Communism part 2.
Feb 6, 2004 8:22PM PST

Please continue.........

And explain your point. Are you saying those countries and administrations that are not particularly considered nice were total capitalistic countries and proof there is nothing good about capitalism?

Communism in the ideal sounds nice. Everyone work at what they can do and are needed to do and everyone gets the same reward. Unfortunately, until human nature changes drastically it ain't gonna work.

A socialistic notion of cradel to grave security guaareenteed by the government sounds reassuring. But again unless people are willing to do all they can do so everyone (even those that didn't?) can have absolute equal lifestyles, it has a lot of problems too.

Unregulated captilism undoubtedly less to extreme abuse. But too many regulations probably lead to the same abuse level, because the more complicated you make it, the fewer people can play the game. So everyone ends up working for a few, with little choice.

Thanks for tying the US into all those examples, I'm sure it really excites people to think our nation is close to those.

roger

- Collapse -
Step 1. Note the US experience with capitalism.
Feb 7, 2004 9:17AM PST

Step 2. For remaining doubts, return to Step 1.

- Collapse -
Re:Frankly, I don't think porn is unique to capitalism. I think it exists in all
Feb 6, 2004 7:56PM PST

Actually many will call me a hypocrit but it isn't the existence of porn that bothers me so much as it is so pervasive as to be almost unavoidable for those that wish to do so.

Hypocrite or not, it was a lot better when it was something people that wanted had to go find, not see on the evening news.

roger

- Collapse -
I don't think anyone will call you a hypocrite ...
Feb 6, 2004 8:07PM PST

... for what you said. But Dave just might come along and call you a right wing prude if you're not careful!

Evie Happy

- Collapse -
Didn't you...
Feb 6, 2004 8:10PM PST

ask to be banned? If so what are you doing posting?

- Collapse -
Weren't you...
Feb 7, 2004 2:46AM PST

banned more than once? If so why, and why do you continue?

- Collapse -
Re:I don't think anyone will call you a hypocrite ...Just beating them to the punch.
Feb 6, 2004 8:25PM PST

Shrug, won't be the first time.

Though it might be the first time since I was in high school, even junior high, I was called a prude.

Chuckling, that might be an improvement on somethings I've been called.

roger

- Collapse -
Re: I don't think anyone will call you a hypocrite ...
Feb 7, 2004 1:03AM PST

Hi, Evie.

You seem to think that I care what other people want to see and hear, or not see and hear. I don't. My problem comes when other people try to impose THEIR standards of what THEY want to see and hear on MY ability to see and hear what *I* want. NOW, this doesn't mean there should be no standards at all -- I support the laws against child pornography for obvious reasons, and I certainly accept that there should be different standards for broadcast vs. cable TV and movies/plays that you have to pay to attend in a theater. In fact -- whatever happened to the "family hour?" Should "Friends" and "Whoopi," funny as they are, really be on in the first hour when many kids are watching? OTOH, forcing ER to cut a scene of a breast surgery at 10pm is ludicrous. The concern over the Jackson flap (pun intended) is justified because it was early in the evening when many children were presumably watching. But the FCC Chief (who thought it "evil," which is an exteme statement IMCO) wants to use that as an opening to censor content and nudity on cable television -- an entirely different matter, and a clear violation of the First Amendment.

-- Dave K, Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

- Collapse -
Re:Re: I don't think anyone will call you a hypocrite ...
Feb 7, 2004 1:41AM PST

No Dave, repeatedly you have painted anyone with views differing from yours where sex is concerned as prudes and bluenoses. TTBOMK, ER was not forced to pixelate that breast, and it was a silly over-reaction on the part of the network or whoever made the decision. As I pointed out in another post, it was exactly because whoever pulled this really didn't understand the problem with Ms. Jackson's stunt.

BTW, maybe evil is a bit strong, but I don't know what else to call simulated sexual assault in primetime and on broadcast complete with nudity.

Watch what you want on cable. We agree, Friends doesn't belong in the family hour either.

Evie

- Collapse -
Re: the ER case
Feb 7, 2004 7:16AM PST

Hi, Evie.

Well, as usual I love it when people try to be experts on what my views are. They don't change, but obviously trying to develop a complete view of someone else from isolated posts (through the veil of remembrance, at that) can be like the blind men trying to describe an elephant.

As for >>As I pointed out in another post, it was exactly because whoever pulled this really didn't understand the problem with Ms. Jackson's stunt,<< I disagree -- they were reacting to the comments of (and impending witch hunt by) the head of the FCC: >> "The concerns I hear from parents aren't limited to broadcast, but also include channels on cable," said FCC Commissioner Kevin J. Martin.<< Here's an editorial from one of your least favorite newspapers that addresses the issue clearly:
Over the Line? Only If Over the Air.

- Collapse -
Dave, you claim to be any number of experts; history, theology, science, etc.
Feb 7, 2004 9:26AM PST

So why be concerned when someone else claims expertise? (Couldn't resist)

- Collapse -
'forcing ER to cut a scene of a breast surgery' - what govt agency did that? (NT)
Feb 7, 2004 9:22AM PST

.

- Collapse -
Interesting article about Sweden and, uh, ''pets''
Feb 6, 2004 3:40PM PST

Apparently, that old phrase "a dog is man's best friend" means one thing here, but quite another thing there:

http://pub.tv2.no/nettavisen/english/article177749.ece

Those who live in glass houses, who are permitted to be here only because of our graciousness, who drink our milk and eat our bread and enjoy our freedoms and hide under our wing for protection as they enjoy our bounty....

DE

- Collapse -
Is Yahoo American and on the NYSE or Nasdaq?
Feb 6, 2004 4:01PM PST

You fail to understand the actual issue here. Is the pornography company that promotes such things on the Swedish Stock Market? And I am very happy to see that the Swedish authorities actually are aware of it and take measures against it. I wish it would be the same here... Is Yahoo an American company?

- Collapse -
Re:Is Yahoo American and on the NYSE or Nasdaq?
Feb 6, 2004 4:31PM PST

Are you saying that the increasing plague of Swedish bestiality and perversion is a matter of no concern so long as there is no Swedish company on the Swedish Stock market profiting from it?

Glass houses dude. Have some more our bread and milk, enjoy hiding under our wing, while you think about it and enjoy the freedom we provide to comment on it. No santimonious attitudes allowed in this one.

DE

- Collapse -
Hatred...
Feb 6, 2004 5:09PM PST

Take your hatred somewhere else. Unfortunately I think I provide the US government and thus you with more money than you can count.

- Collapse -
Hatred? It's fact, man.....
Feb 6, 2004 5:43PM PST

Why is my post "hatred" while yours is something other than hatred? Is it permissible to slur the US in a backhanded way, repetitively and constantly, even as you live here as our guest, yet impermissible to ask a legitimate question on the same subject regarding Sweden? Is this not a double standard that is indefensible in rational discourse? I intended no hatred when I asked this question, I was merely curious. And since you provided no answer the first time, I ask yet again:

"Are you saying that the increasing plague of Swedish bestiality and perversion is a matter of no concern so long as there is no Swedish company on the Swedish Stock market profiting from it?"

So what is your answer?

And I must, out of curiosity, ask yet another question based upon this quote from the article:

"We have seen an increase [in Swedish bestiality] since 1999 when child pornography became illegal," said Johan Beck-Friis. "It appears, in other words, as there are some people who have replaced children with animals. In both circumstances, it is sex with defenceless individuals."

And my question is this: What kind of country in modern times would wait until 1999 to outlaw CHILD PORNOGRAPHY? Is this not the most egregious violation of human rights, the lowest of the low? If the US did not forbid child pornography I would do all in my power to see that it WAS forbidden by law! This a dishonor I could not live with! Did you do anything at all to stop this Swedish Shame, this egregious violation of human rights?

Motes and beams....

DE

- Collapse -
As I said...
Feb 6, 2004 5:53PM PST

Capitalism has its very weak points and some of them certainly make people suffer. Black/Illegal markets exists, both in Sweden and here in the USA, where I probably support you with my tax money so you can drink milk and eat bread for a reasonable price. But the question is rather if it is acceptable that the porn industry is allowed to be part of the Stock Market as it is here, or not, as is the case of Sweden...

But before I answer your questions, why don't you answer mine?

- Collapse -
Re:As I said...
Feb 6, 2004 6:16PM PST

> Black/Illegal markets exists, both in Sweden and here in the USA...

But, Mr. Thunell, CHILD PORNOGRAPHY was not a Black/Illegal market in Sweden, as it was LEGAL until 1999. Is that not correct? I'll assure you that it was not legal in the US a mere five years ago.

And this is at least twice that you've mentioned your great wealth:

>"Unfortunately I think I provide the US government and thus you with more money than you can count."

So I must ask you this: did any portion of your immense uncountable riches get spent to persuade your Swedish government to end the Swedish government's egregious violation of human rights since it kept CHILD PORNOGRAPHY legal in Sweden until 1999?

There comes a time when you must answer questions Mr. Thunell, not merely ask them. And the questions put to you, which still and most curiously remain unanswered, are most serious for all who are concerned with human rights.

DE

- Collapse -
Stick to the actual debate....
Feb 6, 2004 6:53PM PST
did any portion of your immense uncountable riches get spent to persuade your Swedish government to end the Swedish government's egregious violation of human rights since it kept CHILD PORNOGRAPHY legal in Sweden until 1999? - David Evans

I don't know if you are aware of the fact that taxes are paid to a lot of things that the government provides; health care, infrastructure, social benefits, police, schools etc. Exactly how much of my tax money has gone to each instance, is something that I am not aware of. However, I believe that some of the money went to the law enforcement that is the part of the Swedish society that deals with these things. All I have been able to do is to support the parties that have had these issues as a priority and demonstrate against the porn industry.

But once again you fail to answer my question if you think it is ok that the American Stock Market accepts the porn industry.

If you are really interested in where the tax money is spent in Sweden you may want to research this site.

? But, Mr. Thunell, CHILD PORNOGRAPHY was not a Black/Illegal market in Sweden, as it was LEGAL until 1999. Is that not correct? ? David Evans

That seems to be correct. And it is a shame that a country like Sweden didn?t make this kind of activities illegal before! A reason may be that it wasn?t very spread before 1999 (which isn?t an excuse, but probably an explanation), but that isn?t anything I can confirm.

However, the initial post was about American Porn and the companies that ignore it, which you seem to refuse to debate.
- Collapse -
What is the argument here?
Feb 6, 2004 7:06PM PST

If you both object to Porn and are anxious to see it's demise, then where is the disagreement?

- Collapse -
Good question...
Feb 6, 2004 7:37PM PST

You ought to ask DE about that. He's the one who brought Sweden up here for some reason. Sweden wasn't even mentioned in the initial post.

- Collapse -
Sweden didn't outlaw child porn until 1999? You have some nerve
Feb 7, 2004 9:36AM PST

to be harping on stock markets one of which no one knows about.

- Collapse -
One more thing...
Feb 6, 2004 5:58PM PST

The initial post was about a documentary that I saw. I don't know if you have broadband or not, but there are very interesting information that I think you should take notice of at the link I provided here.

- Collapse -
That's impressive! Do you invest on the NYSE? Where did
Feb 7, 2004 9:32AM PST

your money come from? I thought socialists gave all their money away.

- Collapse -
Is Boss Media Swedish and listed on the Swedish Stock Exchange?
Feb 7, 2004 3:32AM PST

Sure is. Can you tell us about their ties to porn-dms.com. porn-vm.com. porn-vms.com. xxx-dm.com. xxx-dms.com. ... spanish-maps.com. spanish-stocks.com. swedish-stock.com. swedish-stockmarket.com. swedish-stocks.com. ...

Are SAS, Nova Airlines, Britannia, Skyways on the Swedish Stock Exchange? Haven't a couple been associated with inflight porn movies?

Answer that and we can talk about Yahoo accepting paid advertisements and directory placement--legal activities for legal businesses.

Sweden, the Netherlands and other European countries like Denmark, Germany and Belgium, do not regulate the porn industry and do not report sex crimes like the U.S. does, i.e., incest, date rape, sex with underage participants, public nudity or even pedophile activity. In fact, there are publications in Europe that prominently promote pedophilia.

Attempting to use comparisons is therefore a bit invalid.

The following might interest you as well:

The emergence of a huge and ever-expanding American porn industry potently illustrates that America is following the course outlined by Huxley and pioneered by Sweden. The reigning "godfather" of America's porn industry is a figure who bridges the worlds of hard-core smut and collectivist social engineering.

- Collapse -
What's the 'Swedish Stock Market', and why are you
Feb 7, 2004 9:30AM PST

so hung up on it? Whether something is or is not listed on it appears to be of little consequence.

- Collapse -
Re:Interesting article about Sweden and, uh, ''pets''
Feb 7, 2004 1:21AM PST

Just makes me want to puke!!!! We had a man in PHX that had sex with both of his dogsSad( And there is no law against beastialatity(SP?) in AZ! Sickening! I can see this happenning more and more as our laws become more liberal! Whatever happened to morality?? OOPS! I guess we shouldn't say anything about morals in SE! I will get another post removedSad

Glenda

- Collapse -
Re:Interesting documentary about America and the Porn industry...
Feb 6, 2004 8:35PM PST

I don't have time to go through the whole thing. Aside from the phrase "Yahoo has profited from it" can we really tag them with this? Is there anything more specific or did the author just pick out a successful internet company that may owe some nod to the popularity of cyberporn?

As to the hotel chains listed on the stock exchange, SO? It's called supply and demand. So they make more on porn than the miniba. Big deal. If you don't want it you can either stay in a family friendly hotel that doesn't carry porn, or simply decline the subscription. I've been in many a hotel that discretely advertises that it is available, but none that have it at the ready without a separate subscription and charge. Now about that minibar ... and all those companies that profit from the sale of alcohol. You don't see anything wrong with that? How about all the companies profiting off gambling?

What's the problem anyway Charlie? It's all just God's creation isn't it?