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Question

Immutable and Virtual OS Help.

Jan 28, 2014 5:44AM PST

Good day,

Let me start off by saying that my knowledge of this topic is very limited. I am going to give a brief breakdown of what I would like to do in the best explanation possible. Please bear with me.

I am running a custom built PC with all the bells and whistles. I have a primary drive that consists of two ssd's in a RAID0 configuration. On the primary drive I have windows 7 installed as well as all the essential programs like drivers, office, virus scanners etc.

Here is where my question comes in. I would like to install an additional physical hard drive that can be used as a "virtual" version of the first. Now if I have confused you, let me try to explain this.

I want the primary to physically have all the necessary files for the operating system as well as all the software installed. All updates and all new software will be stored on this primary drive.

What I want to do is have the second hard drive essentially boot when i turn on the computer as a mirror of the primary. Act exactly as the primary would. But when i restart the computer or shut down, no changes are saved.

Basically use the secondary drive everyday to work off of without ever worrying about files becoming corrupted ect. And just update the primary when neccessary. I also would like the secondary drive to have full use of the hardware available i.e. memory, graphics, processor ect.

Now I am not sure how this can be done, hence the forum, but if any of you out there can help me out I would greatly appreciate it.

Discussion is locked

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Answer
I'm going with no.
Jan 28, 2014 11:42PM PST

Unless I have a true RAID controller that supports RAID 0+1 (since you use RAID 0, I'll skip any tutorial about what 0+1 is) then any software RAID is not going to happen.

Why?

It's Windows. And even in 7 when we clone the RAID 0 array to another HDD you should discover when you try to boot from that Windows 7 will, like all prior versions BLUESCREEN rather than function.

Yes there are RAID hardware cards that with some work and money get you there but for now it's time to backup what you have so you can recover when you need to.
Bob

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No RAID 0+1 Function
Jan 29, 2014 1:17AM PST

R. Proffitt,

Thank you for your response. To answer/clarify a few of your questions, I am not trying to go for a RAID 0+1 (I know what this is). What I'm simply trying to do is have a Hard drive that i have all my up to date software on, and a additional hard drive that boots maybe as a virtual image of the first. I have a really hard time explaining it because I don't know what the function is called.

I want it to act a a virtual machine every time I use my computer. Hence when I start my computer. A exact copy of the first is booted on an additional or a virtual drive. I would then use the computer as i normally would, then on a restart or shutdown the secondary hard drive or virtual drive doesn't save any changes. All it does is boot what is current on the first.

Forget that I mentioned RAID. My primary is a RAID 0. That is all. My secondary is another physical ssd.

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Nod to Russnovich.
Jan 29, 2014 1:23AM PST

Mark Russnovich wrote http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/ee656415.aspx and much more.

He also wrote how to mount a VHD as a drive and then you need to find a way to clone that.
If you really want to do this I'd contact him and pay him for the effort.

If you want to use what most folk do I can discuss that but as proposed you are going for a Moon shot or trip to Mars and outside what I think you can implement. That is, Windows doesn't do this but if there is a way, Mark is the man.
Bob

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More about Mark.
Jan 29, 2014 1:28AM PST
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Thank you
Jan 29, 2014 3:13AM PST

Proffitt,

Thank you for the help. I still haven't figured it out. I think there is a mix up in what I am explaining and what you are interpreting. I take the blame for this, as I can only visually see it in my mind but don't know the terms/processes to convey them in writing. I will continue to browse the web in hopes of possibly learning a few more definitions that can help me explain my scenario clearer.

Thank you

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Let me share I've used some of what I noted.
Jan 29, 2014 8:07AM PST

I used the disk to VHD and then ran the result in a Virtual Machine so that gets me to the "Virtual OS" step. You asked that it be immutable which means "unchanging over time or unable to be changed." which we can achieve by archiving a copy of the VHD and using a copy for booting it up.

The problem as I see it is that your words and requirements send you to the deep end of the computing pool. That is, while it's all possible I wonder where you saw such a system. Maybe an example will help.

Sorry, but I have not used Hyper V much.
Bob

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Getting Close
Jan 29, 2014 9:13PM PST

Bob,

After a few hours on the net yesterday i started reading about .wim files. So a potential solution would be to create a custom copy of a .wim file from the first hard drive with the os installed, updates, drivers and software. And have that mounted to the additional hard drive and have it show up in the boot menu. Only thing i can't find clarity on is the ability to have it not save any changes on each restart/reset.

Joe

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Which is why I had to solve it the old fashioned way.
Jan 29, 2014 9:29PM PST

My backup copy would be immutable since it's just that.
Bob

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Question
Jan 29, 2014 9:52PM PST

Looking at the possibility of doing it this way. Only problem is every time i update the primary drive with either drivers or new software, I will have to re create a new .wim file and go through the process again of mounting ect. At the moment I don't know any alternates. So will continue to do research.

Also, not sure if you can help me out here. I know libraries and schools configure their CPU's to do this, but there is a way they configure them to not save any changes/files/settings on each shut down. So that the next user that logs on gets a "fresh" copy of a pre saved windows environment.

I'm thinking along those lines of having my work computer function this way. I just dont know what this process is called.

Joe

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There are systems like that.
Jan 29, 2014 9:55PM PST

I don't use such but names for your research.

-> Deep Freeze.
-> Windows SteadyState.

My thought is the cure is worse than the problem. But your time and choice.
Bob

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Haha
Jan 29, 2014 10:30PM PST

Ok so i've learned alot over the past few days. Seems like a method like deep freeze or steady state is some thing that i was thinking about. Certainly have to read a bit on these topics and figure out exactly what i would want.

Let me ask you, in your case what would you recommend for:

A strict work computer with a OS, updated drivers and the exact software to cover your tasks. To boot every time exactly the way you want it. without the worry of changes, viruses or corrupt files. And also take full advantage of the hardware available.

This is my ideal system for work. I am basically using my custom built PC with all the essentials including Autodesk design suite. I'm not using it for gaming or movies. I have a laptop for that stuff.

Let me know your thoughts.

Joe

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Sorry
Jan 29, 2014 10:40PM PST

But I've never needed or wanted such a system. So while I know a thing or two about Windows, and the subject at hand, I use the old fashioned system of backup when I want to keep a ready to restore system at hand.
Bob

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Unfortunately, Windows Steady State
Jan 30, 2014 10:00AM PST

ceased to function after XP.

I've been looking for a comparable alternative.

I'll check out Deep Freeze

P

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Answer
Re: stable system
Jan 30, 2014 5:28AM PST