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Illegal immigration rally, the real agenda

by duckman / April 9, 2006 12:12 PM PDT
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060410/ap_on_re_us/immigration_protests

"Marches will only get you so far," said Armando Navarro, coordinator of the National Alliance for Human Rights, a network of Hispanic activist groups in Southern California. "There has to be an electoral component to get the Republicans out of the majority."

Very strange considering,
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash1hr.htm

Also from the rally,
""If we don't protest they'll never hear us," said Oscar Cruz, 23, a construction worker who marched among the estimated 50,000 in San Diego. Cruz, who came illegally to the U.S. in 2003, said he had feared a crackdown but felt emboldened by the large marches across the country in recent weeks."

I thought they only took the jobs that Americans wouldn't
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I clicked the 'feedback' button at the bottom
by Dragon / April 9, 2006 1:01 PM PDT

And spent awhile reading, and responding to a couple of notes. The following note struck a chord with a lot of people:

Immigration: An American's Perspective
by: eregnon_the_black 04/09/06 10:55 pm
Msg: 8481 of 8548
2 recommendations

I see thousands of people on TV, protesting immigration reform, asserting their right to live in this country.

They chant "We are Americans" - yet the flags they wave are not American flags.

They chant "We are Americans" - yet their children need to be taught English when they get to school, further burdening our already overtaxed education system.

They chant "We are Americans" - yet they do not invest their money in America, but instead send it HOME - to Mexico.

It is said America is a melting pot, and this is true, but it seems nobody ever really stops and thinks about what that means. It means people of various lands coming together and blending their cultures and values, assimilating themselves into the American way of life. That which is good and useful in their new home is kept, and that which is not falls away and is eventually discarded. This is a good thing, and one of the things that makes our country strong.

There is one problem. The Mexican community does not melt.

They insist on clinging to a language that was forced on their ancestors by a foreign power that conquered and enslaved them.

Their houses are painted shades of color that Dali never dreamed of in his most extreme delusions.

Every fifth of May they clog our streets celebrating the anniversary of an insignificant battle that occurred in a country they DON'T LIVE IN. Furthermore, it's a country they don't WANT to live in, a country it seems NOBODY wants to live in, otherwise they wouldn't all be coming here. I have yet to hear a rational explanation for that absurd behavior.

I'm sure by now there are people reading this who think, "This guy is a racist." That is not the case. I don't object to the race of Mexicans, who by the way share the same race I do, that being Caucasian. I object to a foreign force invading my country.

That is really what we are talking about here, an invasion. Millions of people who think it's okay to sneak into my country, take jobs away from my countrymen, and then expect me to adapt to them. No, that's not how it works. This is my country, they need to adapt to me.

I look at these people who say they are Americans, but I don't see any Americans. I see an alien presence, a people who's loyalties are not to my country, but to a country my country once fought a war with. They aren't building a new life the way so many prior immigrants did, they are siphoning off billions of dollars to a foreign land. They are not Americans; they are Mexicans who happen to live in America.

So, to those people chanting "We are Americans", I say "If you want to be Americans, then by God BE AMERICANS!"

The language we speak here is English. It's a nice language, really. People like Shakespeare, Frost, Hemmingway, Harlan Ellison, and Maya Angalou have done wonderful things with it. Learn some of it!

Understand that the color purple was a great movie that got gypped out of an Oscar, it is not something one puts on the outside of one's house.

Invest your money in THIS country, in a savings account at least.

Understand that Independence Day occurs on the Fourth of July, not the Fifth of May. My ancestors came from Italy. I don't celebrate Garibaldi Day.

And finally, understand that the flag of this country is not red, white and green, but red, white and blue.

Be Americans.

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Thats a great statement
by dirtyrich / April 9, 2006 1:36 PM PDT

If you're Americans, fly the Red, White or Blue. If it's shameful to you or inferior to another flag, get out.

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Excellent opportunity
by JP Bill / April 9, 2006 8:37 PM PDT

for all the unemployed American citizens to take the jobs the protesters were doing.

While they protest, take their jobs.

That'll show'em.

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Even better opportunity...
by dirtyrich / April 9, 2006 9:16 PM PDT
In reply to: Excellent opportunity

arrest them.
If an immigration bill passes, I'd have the FBI & INS stage one last rally to protest the bill (maybe the same day), then swarm the place with police to enforce the new law. Would be like shooting fish in a barrel.

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Might be a little iffy
by Dragon / April 9, 2006 10:09 PM PDT

Since some are Americans and some aren't.

Another thing that's been brought up (another forum) are students going on marches instead of going to school. I suggested that teachers could be giving pop tests. I'm not sure how much truancy is enforced. It may vary from one place to another.

I have read that more and more kids are dropping out of school, altogether. I didn't keep the source for that, though they closed saying the problem would be studied -- reasons for dropping out and etc.

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I wonder if the funding for someof these groups....
by EdH / April 9, 2006 9:56 PM PDT

was traced to its source, where taht would lead. Anyone care to make any bets? I have a couple of ideas *cough*moveon*cough*Soros*cough*.

Someone is paying for those t-shirts, signs, flags, media, organization, etc. It needs to be investigated.

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I wonder if it goes further...
by EdH / April 9, 2006 11:00 PM PDT
In reply to: Here,

or closer to the DNC?

ANSWER is an Anti-American group if I can be permitted to use that label. Note that they want Bush and the Republicans out, and are willing to use the illegal immigrant issue as a pawn to that end.

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Not the DNC directly,
by duckman / April 10, 2006 12:15 AM PDT

would be complete political sucicide if they were caught fermenting more anti-Americanism. However, Dean may be that dumb.

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And Pod People have taken over Starbucks...
by grimgraphix / April 10, 2006 12:42 AM PDT
In reply to: Not the DNC directly,

Drop the conspiracy theories guys along with your tinfoil hats.

By the way... that's iPod people... and they really have taken over Starbucks. Wink

grim

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Not sure how you think
by duckman / April 10, 2006 12:50 AM PDT

there is some conspiracy. Why do you think the idea of others than illegal Mexicans are involved in the celebrations is nutty?

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trying to infer
by grimgraphix / April 10, 2006 1:24 AM PDT
In reply to: Not sure how you think

that the recent immigration demonstrations are driven by democratic political maneuvering by Dean and the DNC borders on conspiracy theory.

Yes, I think it safe to say that there are other groups involved... both republican and democrats are trying to position themselves as friends of the hispanic community in order to gain votes. You can see that by the pandering both parties are doing in trying to hammer out the recent immigration bill.

Trying to drop responsibility for organizing and funding the demonstrations on democrats is just so much useless partisan fingerprinting. It fails to address the real issues and creates ill will between parties. I'm not saying that your speculation is going to catch on with the national media :D, but for the sake of talking within the realm of reality this line of democratic involvement serves no purpose other than to gleefully irritate your opponents.

Democrats funding the demonstrations? Bah I say! Bah and Haruph! Wink

grim

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Better reread
by duckman / April 10, 2006 1:30 AM PDT
In reply to: trying to infer

I never infered as much

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EdH did though.
by grimgraphix / April 10, 2006 1:38 AM PDT
In reply to: Better reread

I guess you were just in the line of fire. Sorry.

grim

By the way EdH... I was hanging out with some friends who are grads of the Joe Kubert school. They gave big props to your work.

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Not exactly...
by EdH / April 10, 2006 2:19 AM PDT
In reply to: EdH did though.

I wondered if it goes that far. There's money somewhere and the source of money for a lot of lefty loonies is moveon.org. And moveon.org has boasted that they "own" the Democratic Party.

Not in the least far-fetched given that their main goal is to win the next election.

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Wondering is not infering?
by grimgraphix / April 10, 2006 3:21 AM PDT
In reply to: Not exactly...

"I wonder if it goes further... or closer to the DNC?"
or DM's comment...
"Not the DNC directly,
would be complete political sucicide if they were caught fermenting more anti-Americanism. However, Dean may be that dumb."

You've never heard of inference by speculation? Elections have been won and lost on the seed of speculation. But I guess I misunderstood you.

I do have a hard time equating the illegal immigration advocates with the left wing "loonies" hyperbole. I suspect that the Illegals have their own agenda apart from the left and right mainstream - that is what makes it so dangerous to pander to these folks. Or by your definition of left wing are you saying if it isn't republican it must be left wing?The illegal movement has its own agenda. They want safe working conditions, regular pay, benefits for themselves and their families. That is why they came here.

If speculation isn't inferring then I speculate that the Mexican government or certain mexican special interests are just as likely to be funding the "open your borders and give us free citizenship" movement. There are obvious benefits to the mexican economy as has been already noted. I also wonder if the movement for a european style guest worker program is being underwritten by all the major corporations who outsourced to central and south america. After all... if big business can keep their cheap labour and cut down on transportation costs then they have a double win don't they. Of course we can all wonder what political party in the U.S. is most open to giving business free reign. It's a new world order gentleman and Eisenhower warned us about bowing to corporate pressure.

As for moveon.org boasting that it owns the dems? Thats obviously left wing bias in the press to present a united front. You don't believe everything you read do you?

I'll tell you this rather than speculate...My firm opinion about all immigration issues is this. Whatever course we decide upon is contingent on controlling our borders. If we can't stop the uncontrolled flow of illegals into this country than no matter how liberal or strict a policy we install it will be just so many words on a paper no one reads. The illegal movement should be asking the Mexican government to help close their side of the border to further invasion if they want any sympathy at all from the U.S. There should be no amnesty.

I'm against guest worker programs (look at France and Germany) since you can't expect someone to move to the U.S. with the understanding they won't put down ties. If immigrants want to be U.S. citizens they need to identify themselves as americans. How can they if they know there status here is temporary?

Finally... illegal immigration is not just the immigrants fault. Too many businesses overlook citizenship status and hire these folks. Drug dealers have their properties seized based on the idea that they were purchased by illegally earned funds. How about seizing these "honest" businesses who have built their profits on illegal cheap labor?

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Well, let me put it this way....
by EdH / April 10, 2006 5:52 AM PDT

I'm not really sure that there's a Democrat behind the curtain, but I'm wondering if there is. Maybe it's a shade difgferent. The point is that these demonstrations are not so much about reforming immigration as they are about killing any reform and defeating Bush and the Republicans. They've admitted as much.

Now look around. Who else has the same goals?

Maybe some of our intrepid "investigative journalists" could do some investigating and find out who is bankrolling this travesty, hmmmm? But of course there'a a snowball's chance of THAT happening (and we know why, don't we).

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Note who is speaking at the rallies...
by EdH / April 10, 2006 7:15 AM PDT

Democrats! Ted Kennedy among them. Note who is on the news channels supporting the demonstrators. Democrats!

Maybe not so far out after all? Maybe NOT a tinfoil hat conspicracy theory but REALITY, huh?

Illegals may indeed have their own agenda, but the agenda of THESE DEMONSTRATIONS coincides with the Democrats' agenda.

If you don't consider Teddy a left-wing loonie, then, well....

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You raise somethings to consider EdH
by grimgraphix / April 11, 2006 5:09 PM PDT

However I would attribute Kennedy's appearance as nothing more than publicity seeking behavior rather than a member of an organizing force behind the demonstrations.

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Not a conspiracy theory...
by EdH / April 10, 2006 12:57 AM PDT

Open your eyes and be informed. Have you ever watched an ANSWER rally?

Talk about tinfoil hats!

You don't think the money behind these "demonstrators" comes from some place? Where do YOU think it comes from, eh?

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(NT) (NT) Link to that please.
by Jack Ammann / April 10, 2006 1:11 AM PDT
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about the pod people?
by grimgraphix / April 10, 2006 1:39 AM PDT

Don't you read the weekly world news? Grin

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(NT) (NT) Don't you read the weekly world news?
by Jack Ammann / April 11, 2006 3:36 PM PDT
In reply to: about the pod people?
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Hardly conspiracy theory
by Evie / April 11, 2006 10:57 PM PDT

The ties can be easily documented. Start with the ties of Moveon.org to "mainstream" Democrats (can you say Al Gore?) and flesh it out with the ties between the Progressive Caucaus and the Democratic Socialists of America (used to cross link their websites until this was exposed by enough people, then the Progressives had to drop the link to give plausible deniability to their anti-American agenda).

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The reality
by sidshop / April 12, 2006 7:39 PM PDT

The reality is our government is unwilling to tackle the issue of securing our borders. They have shifted the focus to Immigration reform. The corporate oligarchs that run our government officials want illegals here to circumvent minimum wage laws and lower the wage standards in our country.
We need to all contact our congressmen and voice our disdain of the immigratin bill, do not pass it, and refocus on securing the border. If we can secure the border then illegals won't get in after they are deported.

Call Congress today and let them know...
SECURE OUR BORDERS!!!!

call toll free.....1-888-355-3588

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You notice they call them all immigrants
by Diana Forum moderator / April 10, 2006 1:21 AM PDT
In reply to: Here,

The illegals are not immigrants, they are illegals. They have broken the law. They are not fleeing persecution. They don't want to be bothered to follow the rules like the legal immigrants have. The laws and rules are not for them.

I remember seeing the pictures of the workers in NO lining up at the local Western Union and sending money back to Mexico.

They say that the illegals take jobs that Americans won't do. I don't know much about picking green beans but I do know that, when the guest worker program was done away with, the farmers said that the price of tomatoes would skyrocket. Instead they developed an automated method of harvesting. I mean we don't harvest wheat with people with scythes anymore. They use huge harvesters. If anything cheap illegal labor stops development of better ways of doing hard, mind-numbing work.

It also provides a safety valve for Mexico so Fox doesn't have to deal with the problems in his own country. So don't expect any solutions from there.

Diana

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(NT) (NT) Dittos
by duckman / April 10, 2006 1:23 AM PDT
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I said the same.........
by Glenda / April 10, 2006 1:58 AM PDT
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Let me expand on something you said, Diana:
by Paul C / April 10, 2006 6:20 AM PDT

You wrote,

It also provides a safety valve for Mexico so Fox doesn't have to deal with the problems in his own country. So don't expect any solutions from there.


True enough; if the corrupt kleptocratic oligatchy that is the Mexican political system was faced with the prospect of actually helping its people instead of aiding them in fleeing to the U.S., then that system would collapse - either because it'd change peacefully or through revolution (and yes, I realize that the new rulers would more closely resemble Venezuela's Chavez, alas).

But it's not as if Mexico's down to its last peso:

Mexico's Pemex has detected vast new oil deposits in the Gulf of Mexico that could double the country's total reserves and boost its oil output to rival Saudi Arabia's, the state oil monopoly said on Monday.

The deposits -- located mainly in deep waters for which Pemex will need hefty investments and technology-sharing agreements to access -- could total about 54 billion barrels of crude equivalent (bce), which would boost Mexico's total reserves to 102 billion bce.

''This is what exploration and prospecting studies have found,'' Pemex communications head Sergio Uzeta said.

''It's important to be clear that we are talking about the probability of finding large quantities of oil and gas. The existence of this oil wealth is very probable but we have to confirm it so that it will be a proven matter.'' (Dated Aug 2004)


It's since been confirmed - and the Mexican elites will, of course, get the vast majority of the profits.

Mexico's abetting of the illegals represents a Mexican social program that we pay for, and that needs to end - now.

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