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General discussion

Idiot CT DOT :(

Dec 5, 2003 11:46PM PST

Hi All,

Well ... just came in from shoveling the driveway ... fun fun fun!

Hubby and I went out yesterday before the snow began to fall. It's not like the state wasn't expecting it -- it's been all over the news -- and the storm was tracking pretty predictably hitting NY & LI first. It's not like it was 60 degrees and the temps plunged to the 20's either, it was below freezing all day.

Soooooooooo ... You'ld THINK the sand/salt trucks would get a jump on it no? Nope!

By the time we got out of the store, there was a light coat on the ground -- maybe 1/2". Sat behind an accident about 2 mi. from home for about 10 min before deciding on another route. Sure enough after passing two more accidents on the highway and main roads, we crawled along. Well, half hour later we came upon a road block for the alternate route and had to go alternate three! Almost sat behind another accident but that one had been partially cleared by the time we reached it. Took us an hour to get home for a drive that normally takes 10 minutes SadSadSad and there wasn't even 1" of snow yet.

I guess they are saving the sand? The kicker was we didn't even SEE a plow/sand truck the entire time.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Evie Happy

Discussion is locked

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Re:Idiot CT DOT :(
Dec 6, 2003 1:55AM PST

Hi Evie,

Don't know about CT, but in MI, they don't send out the plows in full force until after the snow stops, or at least slows a bit. I think they probably don't want to go over the same roads more than once or twice, but I also heard that if they plow early, ice can form, then more snow falls, making it a more dangerous driving condition.

Sorry about your "scenic route" home!

Cindi

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They tried something new here ...
Dec 6, 2003 2:09AM PST

I don't know if this would work in snow.

In some parts of NC the DOT put down a brine solution just before the last ice storm. I think the solution had something the helped the solution bind to the road. I haven't heard any official reports, but I can testify that when I drove home Thursday the road was damp, the temperature had been below freezing all day, and there was no discernable ice on the road. The report I heard said that the solution should work as long as there was not too much rain that could wash it off the road before the freezing started.

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That sounded very successful Bill
Dec 6, 2003 7:36AM PST

I was wondering what they may have put with the saline to produce those results. Some form of alcohol comes to mind that would penetrate the road surface. There may be cheaper alternatives LOL to having the festive cheer splattered across the road surface Happy

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Re:That sounded very successful Bill
Dec 9, 2003 1:00AM PST

Several (many?) years ago, they had a huge batch of bad wine in France and used it to prevent ice. It worked great, but I don't think it was cost effective to make the wine just for that.

Dan

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Re:Re:Idiot CT DOT :(
Dec 6, 2003 3:49AM PST

Hi Cindi,

Yeah, with the successive storms like expected they usually do hold off for the lulls -- the plows were out this morning before the second wave. My gripe was the total lack of sand/salt. Being the first snow of the season there is nothing on the roads. It was also cold. Basically the first flakes stuck and turned everything into a sheet of ice. As with Paula, we just got mixed up with folks that got caught up in the normal "rush hour" traffic home (such as it is in our less than populous area).

The cynic in me thinks they are saving stuff for a bad winter. Better get that snowblower!

Evie Happy

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Re:Idiot CT DOT :(
Dec 6, 2003 2:22AM PST

Hi Evie,

This morning I was wondering how you are doing. How much snow are they predicting for you out of this system?

I can sympathize with you?I was in the commuter fiasco near Boston last Tuesday?in only about an inch of snow that fell just at the beginning of the morning rush hour.

I?m now bracing for today?s storm?and it hasn?t hit hard yet. We?ve had a couple of inches so far, but they expect another foot or more in the next 24 hours.

Managed to get out to Trader Joe?s and the post office this morning. Except my local street, the roads were well managed. I can walk to church in the morning, and will probably spend a couple of hours tomorrow afternoon digging my car out.

Hope you are staying cosy today.

Happy

Paula

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Re:Re:Idiot CT DOT :(
Dec 6, 2003 3:45AM PST

Hi Paula!

Looks like you will probably get more than us. This snow is light enough that our shoveling this morning just might pay off -- much of what is falling now is blowing off the driveway Happy

Yep ... staying really cozy with nice fire going HappyHappy

We had a RI radio station on in the car during our trek yesterday and it was the same as you are describing re: rush hour. I think most people were caught where if they had sanded/salted the roads ahead of time it would have been fine getting home. Today the roads were OK -- can't expect much better since we aren't in a super traveled area. We were able to get a few things this morning and have settled in.

If you don't have to go out in it, it's kind of a nice break. I only wish we weren't still having to shovel! Have a great day Happy

Evie Happy

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Re:Idiot CT DOT :(
Dec 6, 2003 4:19AM PST

Hi Evie,

This still feels so new to me. A far cry from Southern California, but I do enjoy it! Happy

It?s so interesting to see the icicles form, to watch how the wind sculpts the snow even on a garage roof. And later, over a couple of weeks, to watch a slab of ice form and grow thicker on the roof next door, under many inches of snow?and wonder when it will all slide off.

After the first time I cleaned my car off, I learned not to brush/push the snow off the rear of the car if planning to back out.

At least today, the snow is relatively dry (tho just flurries for the past several hours). Today it is about 15 degrees F. But tonight and tomorrow we expect it to be in the mid- to upper 20?s and I wonder how wet or heavy the snow will be when I dig out my car. Oh, well?good exercise.

Enjoy. Happy It?s time for me to call Mom. She's eating her lunch, and expects my call about now.

Paula

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Hi Evie. A question for northern hemispherians...
Dec 6, 2003 6:49PM PST

I first heard about putting salt on the road when visiting Europe in 1981. This question crossed my mind then, but somehow I've never done anything about it. Anyway...

In OZ, a humungous problem is the level of salt in the soil. Surely placing salt on the roadways, which will wash off into your gardens, farms etc at any thaw or at least in spring, is damaging to the horticulture. ??

Ian

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I've wondered the same thing, especially when I see signs on major highways...
Dec 6, 2003 7:13PM PST

"Warning" (or "Caution"): "limited salt area," or "salt substitute area."

I think I've seen these signs mostly when the road crosses or is near water areas (large ponds, reservoirs, rivers). Perhaps it is also near agricultural areas.

Being relatively new to the US northeast, I can only guess that they have contamination in mind when limiting road treatment.

Perhaps Evie or someone else in cold winter areas can shed more light on this.

Paula

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Low Salt areas ...
Dec 6, 2003 10:32PM PST

... are indeed those roads that run-off into water supplies like resevoirs. Yes, Ian, there is some negative impact on vegitation, but most of the salt put on the roads runs into sewers and isn't soaking into the ground at the point of application. Our grass at the road edge never quite looks like the rest, and really should have been re-seeded a few times by now. The plows dump the snow on the first 3 feet or so of lawn and thus the salt too. It does tend to kill the grass.

Evie Happy

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nt) thx.
Dec 7, 2003 10:28AM PST

.

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Calcium Chloride salt is used
Dec 7, 2003 2:18PM PST

When you buy sidewalk salt, if you read the bags it says it contains calcium chloride salt which can act like a fertilizer later.

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Don't wanna add fuel to your anger but...
Dec 6, 2003 10:03PM PST
"Soooooooooo ... You'ld THINK the sand/salt trucks would get a jump on it no? Nope!" - Evie

Do you think that if the state had more money, this would be more likely to NOT happen?

PS. BTW, it isn't you'ld, but you'd if you pretend to abbreviate "you would"...
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Re:Don't wanna add fuel to your anger but...
Dec 6, 2003 10:27PM PST

Thanks for the spelling lesson Charlie. Weren't you just recently complaining about how hurtful and insulting joking about same was to your friend? Why then pick a fight? (rhetorical question)

My state has plenty of money, if there are budget shortfalls in our DOT it is because too much money is wasted elsewhere.

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Re:Re:Don't wanna add fuel to your anger but...
Dec 6, 2003 10:38PM PST

The difference is that I didn't belittle you nor made fun of your spelling error, but simply corrected it.

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(nt) Yeah right -- buh bye!
Dec 6, 2003 10:47PM PST

.

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(nt) Where are you going?
Dec 6, 2003 11:43PM PST

`?

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To shovel snow most likely.
Dec 7, 2003 2:38PM PST
Devil
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Re:i won't add fuel to your anger ...
Dec 7, 2003 12:00AM PST

btw,
to be precise it should have been "I didn't belittle you nor maKe fun of your spelling error" or "I neither belittleD you or made fun of your spelling error"

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nup :-) The second example would use 'nor'.
Dec 7, 2003 10:32AM PST

.

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Re: and the first example would use 'or'.
Dec 7, 2003 10:40AM PST

*sheesh, you sure do know how to spoil a game*

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Wasted or too little....
Dec 6, 2003 10:52PM PST

Couldn't it be that there ARE too little money to sustain the needs of the state? Where do you think it is wasted?

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Re:Wasted or too little....
Dec 6, 2003 11:12PM PST

There IS (not are) enough money (singular) in the state's coffers. Much is wasted on unnecessary government programs and expenditures. As a taxpayer, I have no problem paying taxes to support road maintenance. However, before they cry inadequate funding and raise taxes to properly fund essentials, they should be looking to cut non-essential programs.

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Precise?
Dec 6, 2003 11:41PM PST

Could you please be more precise about the following statement: "... unnecessary government programs and expenditures ..."

It is a little too generalized what you say.

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Re:Precise?
Dec 7, 2003 5:00AM PST

Hi, Charlie.

I'm also very interested to see what she'll list as "non-essential." I suspect I'll find many of those much higher priorities than plowing the road during a snowstrom on a weekend...
-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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NT - Patience is a virtue....
Dec 7, 2003 8:46AM PST

`?

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Lower the war on drugs, fewer parks, fewer museums, fewer guardrails,...
Dec 7, 2003 2:35PM PST

fewer sound diverting walls, plant bushes in medians to cut down on amount of grass needing mowing, lessen requirements for residential improvement permits, get rid of overlapping services like some fire and ambulance services. Do away with Meals on Wheels, Free Breakfasts in School. Shut down the dog and cat pounds. Let hunters control the game populations and shut down the Departments of Natural Resources. Just take a gander thru the Blue Pages of any telephone book and you can find dozens of government agencies that we all would be better off if they just went away.

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Re:Lower the war on drugs, fewer parks, fewer museums, fewer guardrails,...
Dec 7, 2003 8:44PM PST

Hi, James.

I agree about the war on drugs. The rest of it -- sorry, but those are all permanent improvements to people's quality of life that I would rate ahead of plowing a road during a snowstorm (which guarantees it has to be done again) on a weekend, when most folks don't have to be on the road. Basically, you want us to return to the dark ages. Incidentally, before you start to comment about the glories of private funding for the arts -- over the ages, most great art has been subsidized if not funded by either government or the Church.
-- Dave K.
Speakeasy Moderator
click here to email semods4@yahoo.com

The opinions expressed above are my own,
and do not necessarily reflect those of CNET!

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I was joking Dave,...mostly. (nt)
Dec 7, 2003 9:59PM PST

.